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  1. #901
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    Seriously. the message in pandaria is a plain and obvious for anyone with the ounce of common sense. That regardless of whatever or wherever you stand, your enemies have every right to exist as you, no matter how different they are. You can fight them when they strike against you, but saying they have no right to exist isn't right or just.

    There is a reason why garrosh is the enemy now, because be believes only him and his orcs should rule azeroth and all other races should be wiped out.

    So, having the alliance claim some bs about the horde should be brought to an end, it makes you no better then Garrosh, and goes against the wisdom the pandaren live by.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    That's not true at all though, the alliance had a great story with many interesting characters, the issue is that most of them either got made neutral or changed their character to suit the storyline in WoW. The last 2 expansions the storyline has been horde focused and about horde characters, hence why the storyline is "boring"
    Translation "I don't think horde should get development because I'm alliance and the story should focus on me". Yeah, heard that before too.

  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Seriously. the message in pandaria is a plain and obvious for anyone with the ounce of common sense. That regardless of whatever or wherever you stand, your enemies have every right to exist as you, no matter how different they are. You can fight them when they strike against you, but saying they have no right to exist isn't right or just.

    There is a reason why garrosh is the enemy now, because be believes only him and his orcs should rule azeroth and all other races should be wiped out.

    So, having the alliance claim some bs about the horde should be brought to an end, it makes you no better then Garrosh, and goes against the wisdom the pandaren live by.
    99% of people aren't calling for obliteration of the horde, just a storyline that makes sense and equally intrigues and involves both factions

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Seriously. the message in pandaria is a plain and obvious for anyone with the ounce of common sense. That regardless of whatever or wherever you stand, your enemies have every right to exist as you, no matter how different they are. You can fight them when they strike against you, but saying they have no right to exist isn't right or just.

    There is a reason why garrosh is the enemy now, because be believes only him and his orcs should rule azeroth and all other races should be wiped out.

    So, having the alliance claim some bs about the horde should be brought to an end, it makes you no better then Garrosh, and goes against the wisdom the pandaren live by.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Translation "I don't think horde should get development because I'm alliance and the story should focus on me". Yeah, heard that before too.
    Oh stop with the strawman that's not what I said at all

  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    99% of people aren't calling for obliteration of the horde, just a storyline that makes sense and equally intrigues and involves both factions
    Nah, your kind of off on that one, most alliance I've read want the latter and do want there absolute victory, and no matter what happens they won't be satisfied with it. I can count on that 100% when mists is over.

    As for the plot, seriously, if you can suggest anything better try do. Any suggestions I've seen from alliance ALWAYS comes with there suggesting the subjugation of the horde and humiliation of it. So if you can suggest something that works both ways, be my guest.

  4. #904
    I hope this leads on to a nice bit of peace between the Alliance and Horde in the coming expansion. Otherwise it's a bit of a silly turn of events, and a big missed opportunity in storytelling.

    I want to either be at peace with the Alliance, or on the back foot as they kick our butts next expansion.

  5. #905
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your.. really being shallow minded about this thing.

    You are literally saying the only way your feel satisfied with any outcome is for the horde to be wiped out and unmade. Screw half the playerbase, screw pvping and balance, you want the alliance to be standing as the grand heroes of warcraft.

    Just.. no. Get a clue buddy.
    No.

    Blizzard started this incredibly stupid storyline. Starting the war was a bad move. Ending it is worse. But if they are to make the bets out of a bad situation, then they can't make either faction look bad or destroy either or whatever.

    The Alliance should NOT walk out of Orgrimmar with nothing. the Horde should NOT be rewarded for being warmongers. Anything else and the Alliance look like idiots. Like morons. If they are in a position to "crush" the Horde, then they are in a position to regain their territories and act to ensure the Horde is no longer a major threat to them.

    Its easy to see what the Horde get. A new Warchief. Freedom. A new start. The knowledge they have defended their The Alliance needs more than just a warm glow of being morally superior. The story needs more respect than a mandated from above completely ludicrous resolution. And so far, that is where it is headed.

    EJL

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No.

    Blizzard started this incredibly stupid storyline. Starting the war was a bad move. Ending it is worse. But if they are to make the bets out of a bad situation, then they can't make either faction look bad or destroy either or whatever.

    The Alliance should NOT walk out of Orgrimmar with nothing. the Horde should NOT be rewarded for being warmongers. Anything else and the Alliance look like idiots. Like morons. If they are in a position to "crush" the Horde, then they are in a position to regain their territories and act to ensure the Horde is no longer a major threat to them.

    Its easy to see what the Horde get. A new Warchief. Freedom. A new start. The knowledge they have defended their The Alliance needs more than just a warm glow of being morally superior. The story needs more respect than a mandated from above completely ludicrous resolution. And so far, that is where it is headed.

    EJL
    I found it to have been an nice ride.

  7. #907
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    Talen, all I'm seeing from you is 'the horde should be punished'. Thats all your saying. Despite there own loses, despite many of the horde races killed under Garrosh's own dictatorship, thats not enough for you, its got to be the alliance that gets vengeance from it.

    And thats all this is, a poor cry for vengeance. Even against horde members who want to end Garrosh's rule and stop the war too, but.. nah, ignore that fact, you don't care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    I hope this leads on to a nice bit of peace between the Alliance and Horde in the coming expansion. Otherwise it's a bit of a silly turn of events, and a big missed opportunity in storytelling.

    I want to either be at peace with the Alliance, or on the back foot as they kick our butts next expansion.
    oh my the tears from such a thing. Alliance will be crying for the hordes toys for years if that happens.

  8. #908
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    do you remember how it was Garrosh that caused that and the rest of the horde were shocked by what he did, and now we are killing him and his orcs who caused it.

    You talk like you think the horde overall wanted to use the mana bomb on theramore, but it was Garrosh alone.
    were trolls and tauren present at the battle?
    yes or no?

  9. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    were trolls and tauren present at the battle?
    yes or no?
    Did troll and tauren know about the mana bomb?
    Yes or no?

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Turnabout is foul play. he was going to push out the Forsaken, the Forsaken refused. Shades of grey.
    Grey? The Forsaken planned betrayal from the very start.

    This does not mean they should be totally destroyed, as everyone as times of dishonourable conduct.
    Given past history? The Alliances goal should be nothing less than total and complete annihilation of the Forsaken.

    EJL

  11. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Nah, your kind of off on that one, most alliance I've read want the latter and do want there absolute victory, and no matter what happens they won't be satisfied with it. I can count on that 100% when mists is over.

    As for the plot, seriously, if you can suggest anything better try do. Any suggestions I've seen from alliance ALWAYS comes with there suggesting the subjugation of the horde and humiliation of it. So if you can suggest something that works both ways, be my guest.
    Read through the first 20-30 pages of this thread (at least), you'll see you're wrong.

    What I would like is for Vol'jinn and Thrall to agree to sign a peace treaty with the alliance at the end of the raid which ends the war and returns the land (in terms of lore, not levelling) Garrosh took during the Cataclysm, mainly Ashenvale.

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    Do you know why Blizzard doesn't write good Alliance Lore? It's because the Alliance vocal majority are whiny brats who only track losses rather than having any pride in their faction or soverignty.
    Hard to do when Alliance lost many of the major sources of pride it once had. Alliance wins Alterac Valley? TOO BAD, Horde wins in canon. Southshore -- birthplace of the Ashbringer -- comes out on top in its rivalry with Tarren Mill? NOPE, plagued for a million zillion years, so you can't have it back even if you retake Hillsbrad! Oh, but we have Pala-- SORRY, all notable Paladin NPCs in the game are neutral or Horde *insert obnoxious blue text teasing Turalyon's absence here*. Well, the 7th Legion is pretty bo-- HAHAHAHAHA, massacred by level 15 Forsaken. Well, at least we still have the moral high gr-- OOPS, Sunreaver incident...

    Seriously, what does the Alliance have to be prideful about? And why should we even hope for new sources of pride? BEWAAAAAARE OF PRIIIIIIDE SAYETH THE PANDEMPEROR. Even the quest givers are setting us up for a huge let-down.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Meaning you want a complete victory and wouldn't be satisfied with anything less. Yeah, heard it all before.
    Meaning that the Alliance get a story and result that treats them and their fans with the same degree of respect that Blizzard shows Horde stories.
    Varian walking out of Org with nothing but the knowledge of moral superiority does neither.

    I'm reminded of the quote from Night Watch:

    The Republic of Treacle Mine Road lacked all the big, important buildings in the city, the ones that traditional rebels were supposed to take. It had no
    government offices, no banks and very few temples. It was almost completely bereft of important civic architecture.


    All it had was the unimportant stuff. It had the entire slaughterhouse district, and the butter market, and the cheese market. It had the tobacco factors and the candlemakers and most of the fruit and vegetable warehouses and the grain and flour stores. This meant that while the Republicans were being starved of important things like government, banking services and salvation, they were self-sufficient in terms of humdrum, everyday things like food and drink.

    What use is a Moral Victory if the Horde wins all the land? What use is leaving the Horde alone if you know you are simply setting them up for the next war?

    I don't want the Horde destroyed but giving the Alliance a meaningful victory, a valid result does not require the Horde to be destroyed or humiliated.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-07-25 at 10:53 PM.

  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Seriously. the message in pandaria is a plain and obvious for anyone with the ounce of common sense.
    be peaceful and patient!
    no wait, now suddenly it is "fight each other to strengthen each other"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    There is a reason why garrosh is the enemy now, because be believes only him and his orcs should rule azeroth and all other races should be wiped out.
    rest of the horde was quite fine with that as long as it didn't effect them

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So, having the alliance claim some bs about the horde should be brought to an end, it makes you no better then Garrosh, and goes against the wisdom the pandaren live by.
    just because a fat drunk panda is spouting some bullshit doesn't make him right
    the pandas have no idea about the history of the conflict and should just shut the fuck up

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Did troll and tauren know about the mana bomb?
    Yes or no?
    you do realize you are basically arguing "it's okay to murder alliance but only in this way" right?
    or is the next question going to be "did they know there is going to be a battle or did they go with the intention of having a picnic?"

    fact, trolls and taurens both committed troops on what they knew is going to be an attack on the alliance with the intention of destroying Theramore and every alliance personnel in it
    and that's exactly what happened

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Talen, all I'm seeing from you is 'the horde should be punished'. Thats all your saying. Despite there own loses, despite many of the horde races killed under Garrosh's own dictatorship, thats not enough for you, its got to be the alliance that gets vengeance from it.
    "The Horde should not be rewarded for warmongering" does not equal "The Horde needs to be punished".

    And BTW - the lesson of Pandaria is trying to teach is bunkus.

    And thats all this is, a poor cry for vengeance. Even against horde members who want to end Garrosh's rule and stop the war too, but.. nah, ignore that fact, you don't care.
    Why should the Alliance care about the same people who enabled Garroshes plans? Who carried them out? Who agreed with them?

    VJ and his crew rebelled for their own reasons. The Alliance owes them nothing.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-07-25 at 11:00 PM.

  16. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Hard to do when Alliance lost many of the major sources of pride it once had. Alliance wins Alterac Valley? TOO BAD, Horde wins in canon. Southshore -- birthplace of the Ashbringer -- comes out on top in its rivalry with Tarren Mill? NOPE, plagued for a million zillion years, so you can't have it back even if you retake Hillsbrad! Oh, but we have Pala-- SORRY, all notable Paladin NPCs in the game are neutral or Horde *insert obnoxious blue text teasing Turalyon's absence here*. Well, the 7th Legion is pretty bo-- HAHAHAHAHA, massacred by level 15 Forsaken. Well, at least we still have the moral high gr-- OOPS, Sunreaver incident...

    Seriously, what does the Alliance have to be prideful about? And why should we even hope for new sources of pride? BEWAAAAAARE OF PRIIIIIIDE SAYETH THE PANDEMPEROR. Even the quest givers are setting us up for a huge let-down.
    remarkable how your talking about alliance pride when the very nature of pride itself BECOMES A BOSS IN SOO. Seriously, what don't you learn from this?

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    remarkable how your talking about alliance pride when the very nature of pride itself BECOMES A BOSS IN SOO. Seriously, what don't you learn from this?
    Are you Taran-zhu or something?

    You seem to be ignoring every well sourced and explained point and just making generic statements

  18. #918
    everyone here seems like they forgot about the black prince that has had influence the whole expansion. We help the horde regain control because of what the black prince foresaw, a divided azeroth wont be able to stand against the upcoming threat (most likely the return of the burning legion but idk)

  19. #919
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    You know what, I'm just going to take all the alliance whining and crying about this debate.. and just enjoy it.

    If its impossible to make any of you understand about balance and walking a mile in another persons shoes, and all you whine about is how you want absolute favoritism despite being unwilling to see the issues the other side too faces, or be content with what you actually have and just want more, it really is beyond discussing with you.

    Funny how none of the lessons taught in pandaria washes here. Pride, how it makes you think what best, only with the worst of result, and being humble is better. But no, lets ignore such an adult subject as that and throw our toys.

    forget it, you people don't ever learn from it.

  20. #920
    I know all about the Sha in Seige, thanks. All I "learned" from this is that LoreDev don't have any answers when it comes to giving the Alliance back a sense of faction pride, so they're going to try to spin it as a good thing, which in my estimation is a load of crap.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

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