Page 48 of 62 FirstFirst ...
38
46
47
48
49
50
58
... LastLast
  1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I'm sorry, what exactly did the horde do? and if you say theramore so help me god. The horde and the alliance both have done war crimes against eachother.
    Name one thing the Alliance has done that's even close to Theramore.

    Go ahead, I'll give you time.

    And if you mention Taurajo I'll laugh at you. And if you mention the Purge of Dalaran then you clearly don't understand the full story.

  2. #942
    I am glad blizzard favors horde.

    Alliance have been written as lawful good. Lawful good is one of the most boring alignments in all of gaming. The story is over written and well known for the lawful good types. It's predictable and worn out. An alliance centric story would be what exactly? A bunch of humans and elves doing something good for their people? What an interesting turn of events that would be, "rolls eyes."

    The alliance needs the horde story for this game to remain interesting. It makes the game much more dynamic and much less lawful good vs. chaotic evil. Currently, we have greys and a mixture of alignments.

    QQ moar or roll horde. It's a game, get over it. It's such a pathetic 1st world issue.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I'm sorry, what exactly did the horde do? and if you say theramore so help me god. The horde and the alliance both have done war crimes against eachother. But banding together to fight Garrosh is a treaty between the rebels and the alliance, to go against that treaty would be bad. The horde would never forget this, and frankly, the horde are better fighters and warriors.

    And what war crimes have the Alliance committed against the Horde?

    Internment camps? I find it funny how many consider that to be a crime when you consider the alternatives.

    Tried to kill the Belves? Those were Lordaeron troops who're now most likely part of the Forsaken considering what happened after Sylvie reclaimed the city.

    And....um....coming up empty here.

    And then comes the useless and pointless posturing of "the Horde're better fighters and warriors" especially in the face of the fact that the old rules no longer apply in the face of the Alliance having races like the Draenei (stronger than even Fel Orcs) and Worgen who don't even need weapons. This is balanced by the Horde having goblins, for tech, and belves for magic.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Name one thing the Alliance has done that's even close to Theramore.

    Go ahead, I'll give you time.

    And if you mention Taurajo I'll laugh at you. And if you mention the Purge of Dalaran then you clearly don't understand the full story.
    What's not to understand about Jaina killing/imprisoning/evicting a sizable part of her own city's population without any evidence that the Sunreavers as a group were traitors, no investigation to find out what happened, and imprisoning a member of the Council of Six without even consulting the council? She overreacted. Should something have been done? Yes, but she acted rashly.

    Not saying it's as bad as Theramore but it's worse than some make it out to be.

  5. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    You'll get Dalaran in return for it though. Last I remember in WotLK was Alliance whining that they had to share their city with the Horde. Now Blizzard fixes this and Alliance players still whine. Please realize that the only way Dalaran could go back to the Alliance is if the Horde got something in return or the Alliance lost one of their other cities to balance things out. More and more do I see Alliance whining when they get what they asked for but they can't deal with the game needing a balance between the two factions.
    I hate this point because it's been stated by blues, the Alliance has Dalaran ONLY ON PAPER (even then it's a strained possession because Jaina just wants Garrosh gone from the Horde, once he's gone she'll take the Kirin Tor back to neutral). There is nothing in the game that supports this supposed "gain", just like in the game there is nothing to support over half of the "cool Alliance pieces" that are written on off-topic media. Dalaran is an after thought that is swept under the rug because it's "too hard" to copy and paste the city somewhere else, because forbid that there be two of the same thing in different locations for the sake of moving a story forward. It's not like we've had two of other things in different locations with it explicitly stated in game that stuff has moved and people haven't gotten dumbfoundly confused over the matter.
    As many people have stated, the Alliance players are upset BECAUSE large portions of their faction content are glued and taped together at the very last minute, while the Horde faction content has been getting insane amounts of attention and detail.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  6. #946
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,386
    Quote Originally Posted by MathAddict View Post
    I am glad blizzard favors horde.

    Alliance have been written as lawful good. Lawful good is one of the most boring alignments in all of gaming. The story is over written and well known for the lawful good types. It's predictable and worn out. An alliance centric story would be what exactly? A bunch of humans and elves doing something good for their people? What an interesting turn of events that would be, "rolls eyes."

    The alliance needs the horde story for this game to remain interesting. It makes the game much more dynamic and much less lawful good vs. chaotic evil. Currently, we have greys and a mixture of alignments.

    QQ moar or roll horde. It's a game, get over it. It's such a pathetic 1st world issue.
    Nobody is asking for it to be alliance centric, they are asking for a balance and coherent writing and gameplay that makes sense and is as equally intriguing for both sides.

    Some people have enjoyed the alliance for a long, long time and have grown attached to it.

    Saying "QQ just reroll" doesn't work

  7. #947
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    i'd be happy with the war ending immediately.

    Blizzard have shown they don't have the resources or writing ability to create an immersive, progressive war between the 2 factions which is interesting for both sides.

    They simply can't have the war progressing and zones being gained/lost without sacrificing new content
    I've noticed that blizzard plays around with new tech integration before doing something full-blown, for instance the BG/LFG allowing different servers to play together, then CRZ, and soon merging the battlegroups (I know I oversimplified that).

    I hope that the zone based persistent pvp we saw with Krasarang Wilds develops into a persistent zone pvp explosion with real objectives, not just dailies. The ability to put any number of people into CRZ-like instanced zones opens a lot of big possibilities. Crossing my fingers that I'm right on this. A reason to leave the city and maybe even the queue would be great.

    TL;DR Hopefully the new technological changes they're making make bigger things like that a reality.

  8. #948
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,386
    Quote Originally Posted by Goosfraba View Post
    I've noticed that blizzard plays around with new tech integration before doing something full-blown, for instance the BG/LFG allowing different servers to play together, then CRZ, and soon merging the battlegroups (I know I oversimplified that).

    I hope that the zone based persistent pvp we saw with Krasarang Wilds develops into a persistent zone pvp explosion with real objectives, not just dailies. The ability to put any number of people into CRZ-like instanced zones opens a lot of big possibilities. Crossing my fingers that I'm right on this. A reason to leave the city and maybe even the queue would be great.

    TL;DR Hopefully the new technological changes they're making make bigger things like that a reality.
    The thing is they have finite resources.

    And to write a progressive storyline where the war advances (particularly through old zones) constantly back and forth would take a lot of development time away from raiding and such which I don't believe anybody wants, thus I want them to just draw a line under the whole sorry affair.

  9. #949
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Complete bullshit. Wrathion said it would have been drawn out. A year just to take Thunder Bluff with massive casualties and "the rest of the Horde would have caved eventually." Wrathion was even backing Garrosh until he turned half the Horde against himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7wVt733LM
    Lol, What? You sound mad bro. He was backing a Garrosh led Horde but the fragmented Horde is at Varian's mercy. He says that thunder bluff will fall and the rest would have caved eventually (after org would have been captured). That is what this entire thread is about. Varian could have made the decision to annihilate the Horde there but he chose not to. Thanks for proving my point though.
    Last edited by delus; 2013-07-26 at 12:25 AM.

  10. #950
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Nobody is asking for it to be alliance centric, they are asking for a balance and coherent writing and gameplay that makes sense and is as equally intriguing for both sides.

    Some people have enjoyed the alliance for a long, long time and have grown attached to it.

    Saying "QQ just reroll" doesn't work
    It's almost impossible task. You cannot have two factions that hate each other and write a story that makes both sides feel great all while maintaining quality writing. One of the two groups will always get the short end of the stick.

    Don't you think it is a bit much to watch the horde go through three epic set backs in a row (Civil War, siege on the horde capital, and losing the warchief). Now you want to add more to that stack?

    I don't seem to recall the alliance going through equally epic setbacks. I don't think a few questing hubs lost equates to a civil War, siege on stormwind, and a dead warchief.

    Undoubtedly someone will say: "Oh, but the horde is laying siege to org and killing garrosh too!"

    If that's the case, why would you want to further punish the sect of the horde that hates garrosh and his actions? That's the part of the horde that peace could be built with. Laying a bunch of demands down on the good sect of horde will only fuel the flames of diplomatic difficulties down the road.

    Either way, it's a big loss for the horde. It's either a huge humbling moment or a gigantic military defeat. The alliance fan-ship wants more? It's virtually impossible without saying the entire horde, the good and bad sects, lost. With a dual faction game, saying one side completely loses disenfranchises half of the player base.

    What you want is nearly impossible and is too much to ask for within the structure of the game.

  11. #951
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,386
    Quote Originally Posted by MathAddict View Post
    It's almost impossible task. You cannot have two factions that hate each other and write a story that makes both sides feel great all while maintaining quality writing. One of the two groups will always get the short end of the stick.

    Don't you think it is a bit much to watch the horde go through three epic set backs in a row (Civil War, siege on the horde capital, and losing the warchief). Now you want to add more to that stack?

    I don't seem to recall the alliance going through equally epic setbacks. I don't think a few questing hubs lost equates to a civil War, siege on stormwind, and a dead warchief.

    Undoubtedly someone will say: "Oh, but the horde is laying siege to org and killing garrosh too!"

    If that's the case, why would you want to further punish the sect of the horde that hates garrosh and his actions? That's the part of the horde that peace could be built with. Laying a bunch of demands down on the good sect of horde will only fuel the flames of diplomatic difficulties down the road.

    Either way, it's a big loss for the horde. It's either a huge humbling moment or a gigantic military defeat. The alliance fan-ship wants more? It's virtually impossible without saying the entire horde, the good and bad sects, lost. With a dual faction game, saying one side completely loses disenfranchises half of the player base.

    What you want is nearly impossible and is too much to ask for within the structure of the game.
    The horde are apparently "taking all these epic set backs" yet they've came out of it better.

    I'm talking in terms of logic, it is clear at the end of SoO that the alliance are the stronger faction right now and thus it makes no sense for us to leave empty handed, without the land Garrosh took from us.

    Give the alliance massive civil war and loss, if it is told properly and with good inclusive gameplay i'd absolutely love it.

    However, right now the alliance are just tacked onto the SoO as seen by the events of 5.3.

  12. #952
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    I'm talking in terms of logic, it is clear at the end of SoO that the alliance are the stronger faction right now and thus it makes no sense for us to leave empty handed, without the land Garrosh took from us.
    It also makes sense for Varian to show a sign of good will to the new warchief. What would make for a better peace, one full of conditions or one where Varian ask for nothing? In-game, the zones alliance lost were due to balancing issues. Vanilla wow had more alliance zones than horde, cata fixed that issue. At best, you could only have the zones back on paper. Would that make you feel better? If a blue came out and officially said "Ashenvale is now more alliance dominated and a new human camp has been set up in hillsbrand," would that make everything right?

    The alliance is not leaving empty handed, they are leaving with the new horde owing the alliance a giant debt of gratitude. There might be some point in the game where the new horde will have to come to the aid of the alliance. If Varian fucks over the new horde, how likely is the new warchief to send help if the legion is at stormwinds door step?

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    That argument is bunk because every land used to belong to the Trolls, and nobody is going to argue that we need to let the Zandalari take it all back.
    http://greyshades.files.wordpress.co...erothlarge.jpg

    Also, the speculation that elves came from trolls has never been confirmed.
    Have faith in the light,
    And the strength of its weilders.

  14. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by MathAddict View Post
    The alliance is not leaving empty handed, they are leaving with the new horde owing the alliance a giant debt of gratitude. There might be some point in the game where the new horde will have to come to the aid of the alliance. If Varian fucks over the new horde, how likely is the new warchief to send help if the legion is at stormwinds door step?
    you know what is also bad for when the legion is at stormwind?
    half your population being dead because the horde decided to start yet another war, which is about as likely as the legion invading

  15. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    you know what is also bad for when the legion is at stormwind?
    half your population being dead because the horde decided to start yet another war, which is about as likely as the legion invading
    If the alliance had just been more welcoming to races such as the tauren, blood elves, and forsaken maybe there would be very little horde to be at war with eh?

  16. #956
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Lol, What? You sound mad bro. He was backing a Garrosh led Horde but the fragmented Horde is at Varian's mercy. He says that thunder bluff will fall and the rest would have caved eventually (after org would have been captured). That is what this entire thread is about. Varian could have made the decision to annihilate the Horde there but he chose not to. Thanks for proving my point though.
    No, you said Varian could crush the Horde then and there at Orgrimmar, "Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion but he chooses not to." That is completely wrong. Wrathion says it would have been a long, drawn out conflict with massive casualties, lasting at least a year before the Horde would have been defeated.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-26 at 12:35 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    No, you said Varian could crush the Horde then and there at Orgrimmar, "Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion but he chooses not to." That is completely wrong. Wrathion says it would have been a long, drawn out conflict with massive casualties, lasting at least a year before the Horde would have been defeated.
    Sure, capturing org would be a first step. Crushing the horde at org and capturing it would only be a single victory but a devastating one which would decide the outcome of all the battles to come. They would still have to assault all of the Horde capitals of course.
    Last edited by delus; 2013-07-26 at 12:54 AM.

  18. #958
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Where ever the Regent-Lord needs me to be
    Posts
    1,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Name one thing the Alliance has done that's even close to Theramore.

    Go ahead, I'll give you time.

    And if you mention Taurajo I'll laugh at you. And if you mention the Purge of Dalaran then you clearly don't understand the full story.
    Culling of Stratholme.

  19. #959
    Quote Originally Posted by MathAddict View Post
    If the alliance had just been more welcoming to races such as the tauren, blood elves, and forsaken maybe there would be very little horde to be at war with eh?
    The Tauren have joined the Horde even before the Alliance ever had contact with them. Had they been independent at the time, there's a very good chance the Tauren would have been either friendly or neutral to the Alliance (the Tauren even allowed Dwarves to dig for archaeological discoveries in Mulgore at some point). Blood Elves got screwed over by one racist idiot, the rest of the High Elves are still around. And then the Alliance offered to take them back into the fold, but Jaina messed it up. As for the Forsaken... well, if they weren't chronic plaguebombing backstabbers, I'm sure we could get along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    Culling of Stratholme.
    Wait, are we going for things the Alliance did to itself? Specially something that's still debated to this day (whether Arthas made things better or worse by trapping the citizens of Stratholme and trying to contain the infection)? Well... alright, then.

    The Horde is responsible for the Lich King, due to it being originally Ner'Zhul.
    Last edited by Holtzmann; 2013-07-26 at 01:28 AM.
    Roll the bones!

  20. #960
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Where ever the Regent-Lord needs me to be
    Posts
    1,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    The Horde is responsible for the Lich King, due to it being originally Ner'Zhul.
    Nay I am just in it for a good laugh. But night elves summoned the Burning Legion and caused the Sundering.

    All in all, they really have not done anything to bad. Most bad things the Allies do are to them selves.
    Last edited by Solzan Nemesis; 2013-07-26 at 01:37 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •