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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    If the whole of the Alliance would convince themselves, with all their efforts of self-delusion, to be the saints fighting the bad evil, they would be a bunch of moronic fanatics like the Scarlet Crusade. And I have to admit, as a Horde player I would absurdly enjoy to brutally and mercilessly butcher these kind of individuals. But the modern Alliance becoming something like that? Oh, hardly.
    It is possible to have an in between from do-nothing Alliance to Scarlet zealotry that would be engaging and interesting.

    Essentially the Alliance is deposing Garrosh and nothing more. There are no demands of justice. I keep thinking about the scene in Return of the King:

    "We shall have peace. We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the children that lie dead there. When the lives of the soldiers, whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the Gates of the Hornburg are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet, for the sport of your own crows, we shall have peace."

    We don't even get that attitude out of our leaders and I really don't feel like the Horde can lay the blame solely on Garrosh as easily as Rohan could lay it on Saruman.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Shengar View Post
    Says who? Nearly every war in Warcraft was won by the side with morals: War of the Ancients, Second War, Third War, ... Eventually having morals gives you something to fight for, which bonds together, which gives a lot more power.
    I blame Metzen and his retarded writing.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Tyrande seems to have severely softened since WCIII, but the Nelves are historically ruthless.
    The night elves should have been the Alliance equivalent to the Forsaken. The fringe group whose views of right/wrong actions are somewhat alien to the standard human views. They've been watered down to hippies way too much in WoW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I blame Metzen and his retarded writing.
    Well, it would also not play out too well if you DIDN'T have them win.
    War of the Ancients, the immoral side wins = no more Azeroth.
    Second War, the Horde razes Azeroth = demons take Azeroth, no more Azeroth.
    Third War, the Scourge wins, demons take Azeroth, no more Azeroth.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    The night elves should have been the Alliance equivalent to the Forsaken. The fringe group whose views of right/wrong actions are somewhat alien to the standard human views. They've been watered down to hippies way too much in WoW.

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    Well, it would also not play out too well if you DIDN'T have them win.
    War of the Ancients, the immoral side wins = no more Azeroth.
    Second War, the Horde razes Azeroth = demons take Azeroth, no more Azeroth.
    Third War, the Scourge wins, demons take Azeroth, no more Azeroth.
    Azeroth has plot armor. Nerf azeroth!
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    I'm not saying the Alliance need become the Scarlet crusade. I'm saying it'd be good for them if hardliners like that had a voice. Jaina might yet take after her father, and I could see Moira becoming an iron-fisted, merciless 'terror of the Forsaken' Dowager Empress. Vareesa would probably roll with that crowd too; what with the Horde nuking her husband (who totally had it coming). Tyrande seems to have severely softened since WCIII, but the Nelves are historically ruthless. Varian (like many humans) is on the fence, gnomes and Draenei are the voices of reason.
    "I'm not saying they need to become Nazi-like Fanatics, they just need to become Nazis!"

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    The night elves should have been the Alliance equivalent to the Forsaken. The fringe group whose views of right/wrong actions are somewhat alien to the standard human views. They've been watered down to hippies way too much in WoW.
    Where do you get that from? It were the Night Elves who rebeled against Azshara, who banished the the Highbourne for their inability of abolishing use of magic and imprisoned Ilidan.
    If that isn't a sign of morals, then what is? And it has nothing to do with WoW.

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Azeroth has plot armor. Nerf azeroth!
    Hehehehehehe

    If Blizzard wrote REAL stories, we wouldn't even HAVE Warcraft III. The whole thing is stupid.

    I do get what Verdugo is saying, though. Let's take WWII for example (because hey, doesn't everyone?). The US ended the war without question with the bombs dropped on Japan. Without question, that is a definite moral grey area. Those sort of actions simply aren't taken.

    The Alliance could benefit form taking the moral grey actions to achieve a greater good from time to time without going entirely into the ends justify any means like Garrosh did.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  8. #1028
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    So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I do get what Verdugo is saying, though. Let's take WWII for example (because hey, doesn't everyone?). The US ended the war without question with the bombs dropped on Japan. Without question, that is a definite moral grey area. Those sort of actions simply aren't taken.
    Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.

    I guess yanks need to make it sound like AMERICA did all the heavy lifting in WW2, when they fought against a smaller and less well equipped nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Vareesa had her reasons to be pissed, her HUSBAND died in theramore.

    So ogrimmar is 'Fair game" becase it acts as logistical keystone in Horde incursions into Ashenvale and Darkshore. Duuuuh.
    We should bomb Orgrimmar with gnomish-made radiation bombs.

    It's seems you don't understand the concept of a FORTRESS and a CITY.

    As example Ogrimmar has a fucking Orphanage. Theramore had tanks parked everywhere.

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

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    Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.

    I guess yanks need to make it sound like AMERICA did all the heavy lifting in WW2, when they fought against a smaller and less well equipped nation.
    I dont want your land back. I just want the alliance races to not be portrayed like puppets and morons, they sometimes arent even portraied for god's sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Shengar View Post
    Where do you get that from? It were the Night Elves who rebeled against Azshara, who banished the the Highbourne for their inability of abolishing use of magic and imprisoned Ilidan.
    If that isn't a sign of morals, then what is? And it has nothing to do with WoW.
    They were also considered savage and brutal and often attack first, ask questions later. They value the preservation of nature, vehemently abhor magic, and could have been developed to view the humans and other races as children. Hell, Avatar had the perfect line "You're like a baby! Making noise, don't know what to do!" There was plenty for them to be developed to have a totally different view than being "purple human hippies."
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Hehehehehehe

    If Blizzard wrote REAL stories, we wouldn't even HAVE Warcraft III. The whole thing is stupid.
    So it'll remain a terrible Warhammer rip off that as becoming more and more stupid as time progressed?

  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?

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    Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.

    I guess yanks need to make it sound like AMERICA did all the heavy lifting in WW2, when they fought against a smaller and less well equipped nation.

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    It's seems you don't understand the concept of a FORTRESS and a CITY.

    As example Ogrimmar has a fucking Orphanage. Theramore had tanks parked everywhere.
    And Orgrimmar's walls are made out of metal and spikes, actually, the whole orgrimmar is made out of that, plus it has like 5 demolishers parked in the back exit.
    Oh yea. So lets get an orphanage in EVERY SINGLE military base, so they become immune to attacks. I like your logic there. Parentless child meat-shield. I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    I dont want your land back. I just want the alliance races to not be portrayed like puppets and morons, they sometimes arent even portraied for god's sake.
    Thats strange, you and all the other cryliance people seemed adamant to have something "taken" from the Horde.

    What suddenly changed this tune?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    And Orgrimmar's walls are made out of metal and spikes, actually, the whole orgrimmar is made out of that, plus it has like 5 demolishers parked in the back exit.
    Oh yea. So lets get an orphanage in EVERY SINGLE military base, so they become immune to attacks. I like your logic there. Parentless child meat-shield. I like it.
    Clearly, you have no idea how Aesthetics do not meet the requirement for a Military base.

    Ogrimmar has living areas for a large population, it has a huge civilian count. It has SOME Military yes, because it's a capital, but that doesn't not make it a total military target.

    Theramore was a stronghold full of SOLDIERS first and foremost. No matter what sideays logic you try to pull doesn't excuse it for being a military target first and foremost.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Thats strange, you and all the other cryliance people seemed adamant to have something "taken" from the Horde.

    What suddenly changed this tune?
    Well it would be cool to have an actual victory for once. But no, i just want the alliance to NOT be displayed as incompetent moronic idiots. The only guy who is not that is The Mr.Good Guy Reasonable Varian, the High King of the fucking Universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    The night elves should have been the Alliance equivalent to the Forsaken. The fringe group whose views of right/wrong actions are somewhat alien to the standard human views. They've been watered down to hippies way too much in WoW.
    Oh so much agreement. Their hardline Orange/Blue morality should be confusing and terrifying. Let us not forget that they became sworn enemies of the Orcs in WCIII before knowing anything about them because they were cutting sacred wood they didn't know was sacred.

    Nelf society is full blown, armed, theocratic, fundamentalism- it baffles me how so many WoW writers portray them as serene hippy folk. Such wasted potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    "I'm not saying they need to become Nazi-like Fanatics, they just need to become Nazis!"
    Hi, I'm composemail. You must be godwin?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So tell me, what are the Allaicne whining about now? Considering any notions of "taking back land" from the Horde pretty much crushes the Game and Lore Equilibrium?
    What are you yammering on about? Your stance isn't even distinct; you think alliance taking back land violates lore, or you think it doesn't?

    I was saying that the Alliance is too soft, and should get on their war horse for a change.

  16. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    They were also considered savage and brutal and often attack first, ask questions later. They value the preservation of nature, vehemently abhor magic, and could have been developed to view the humans and other races as children. Hell, Avatar had the perfect line "You're like a baby! Making noise, don't know what to do!" There was plenty for them to be developed to have a totally different view than being "purple human hippies."
    So basically, you want Night Elves to go back to being Lead by Tyrande.

    "I'm a retarded bitch who doesn't listen to a man connected to the spirits, Act like a pathetic child and then whine when he wants to do the wise and heroic thing."

  17. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post

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    Clearly, you have no idea how Aesthetics do not meet the requirement for a Military base.

    Ogrimmar has living areas for a large population, it has a huge civilian count. It has SOME Military yes, because it's a capital, but that doesn't not make it a total military target.

    Theramore was a stronghold full of SOLDIERS first and foremost. No matter what sideays logic you try to pull doesn't excuse it for being a military target first and foremost.
    Uhh, lets pull WWII again...
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also mostly cities with some militarry assets, didn't stop them from being nuked.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  18. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Hi, I'm composemail. You must be godwin?
    Ah, the Godwin fallacy, a Classic.

    You do know Godwin's law is that as soon as Nazi's are mentioned in a discussion, the side that did not use the Nazi reference assumes it has won? It is not a get out of jail clause for retards such as you. Thank you kindly for being such a typical dumbass.


    As for Yammering on about, I am talking about the Alliance whining that the Horde gained territory every time in these threads, when it was to balance out in lore and gameplay that the Horde was downright smaller than the Alliance since WotLK.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    She attacked the Orcs, it's no wonder they destroyed her city. "Listen, my child, they are monsters. If you punch them in the face, they will fight back; they're savages!"
    I wasn't aware the humans punched first in either the first, or second war.

  20. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Uhh, lets pull WWII again...
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also mostly cities with some militarry assets, didn't stop them from being nuked.
    And the ACTION to nuke them was a very black and evil thing.

    The RESULTS however were for the greater good, making the whole ideal a very strange shade of Gray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defengar View Post
    I wasn't aware the humans punched first in either the first, or second war.
    I had no idea you didn't play Warcraft 3.

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