Thread: SS nerf

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    Ah, but you'e arguing what high-end guilds brought for progression, which was before Pally nerfs.

    Stop catering your "facts" and "points" to fit your argument, good sir.

    The number of Pally's brought to a raid, vs. how many Disc, has largely been ignored by the "Disc haters" (like yourself) that constantly infest every single thread on this forum.
    Paragon used a MW/Disc on their first Lei Shen kill. Method used MW, Disc, Shaman, Druid, Pally. No guild used "2 Paladins" on any progress fight other than perhaps Council, and that was primarily just to lolcheese the Frostbite (and 25 man mode only). In 5.4, I can heartily say if Paladins aren't buffed any more they're going to be the weakest healer in 25 man HC. By a large margin. It'll basically be, bring 2-3 Discs, 1 Shaman, 1 Druid/MW. #Winning. Guilds wont do this of course, but that would easily be the most "efficient" group of healers. I just love how naive you are that you think Disc isn't grossly overpowered yet all data proves it. It's mind boggling, really.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Paragon used a MW/Disc on their first Lei Shen kill. Method used MW, Disc, Shaman, Druid, Pally. No guild used "2 Paladins" on any progress fight other than perhaps Council, and that was primarily just to lolcheese the Frostbite (and 25 man mode only). In 5.4, I can heartily say if Paladins aren't buffed any more they're going to be the weakest healer in 25 man HC. By a large margin. It'll basically be, bring 2-3 Discs, 1 Shaman, 1 Druid/MW. #Winning. Guilds wont do this of course, but that would easily be the most "efficient" group of healers. I just love how naive you are that you think Disc isn't grossly overpowered yet all data proves it. It's mind boggling, really.
    You might just wanna stop posting falsities and quit while you're ahead. But, sure, go ahead and play "Where's Waldo?"...I mean Disc Priest. Here's a hint though: there's not even a white block on anyone's raid frames which means...BENCH ALL THE PRIESTS!

    And "naive" isn't even close to an insult coming from you, especially since I never spoke about the power of Discs. I just merely mentioned that everyone conveniently ignores that a similar number of Paladins were brought for progression as well.

    Edit: in fact, looking through Method's other videos, Ra-Den seems to be the ONLY fight in which Priest healers outnumber Pally healers. All other fights are 2Priest/2Pally, or 1Priest/2Pally, with varying representations of Druids, Monks, and Shaman. Of these, I didn't care to try and determine which Priests were Holy or Disc, btw. Interesting to note: one Disc (I am assuming) for Dark Animus

    So, yet again, it looks like what we really need is less people pulling random numbers out of space.
    Last edited by Spazzeh; 2013-07-22 at 06:21 AM.

  3. #43
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    2,284
    I could swear that Method didn't bring a single Priest to their first Lei Shen kill.
    Tiriel <Demise> of US-Kel'Thuzad

    Thank you to Yoni for this AMAZING signature!

  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    FL, USA
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I could swear that Method didn't bring a single Priest to their first Lei Shen kill.
    Method did indeed not use a single priest of any spec on their Lei Shen kill, but do not let that get in the way of an argument.

  5. #45
    Floopa just has no clue. You can safely ignore everything he posts. Disc is nowhere near as strong in 25m as it is in 10m. Several encounters in this tier were dominated from the start by holy. I looked at the logs everyday and some of the first logs posted in the first 3 weeks for hc kills were with holy priests without a single disc priest in the raid.

    Disc is popular for a number of reasons, including that there are many more 10mans than 25mans and people automatically think that absorbs >>> everything else without actually checking that this is true.

    The SS-nerf is a small drop in throughput for 25man disc priests, but since holy 25man is so much stronger now we are going to see an even greater HPS disparity next tier. Lets see if that gets people to really give holy a try rather than continue to be blinkered by the "absorbs are teh l33t" mentality, even in encounters where they actually don't make any difference realistically.

    Personally I maintain and use both specs, so it really does not matter, except for the annoyance of constantly reforging.

  6. #46
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    2,284
    I think that the SS nerf is actually going to cause real issues in 25 mans, as it leaves 0 room for error when someone is going into a SS rotation. So if anything happens that makes you move, etc, you're going to have wasted the cast. Disc will still be strong, of course, because it's Disc and bubbles and Barrier, but it's a source of aggravation.

    I have a guy in my guild who does nothing but trash talk Holy and went so far as to change his offspec to Shadow to avoid having to play Holy ever (even on Tortos). So I think there will be some people who refuse to try Holy regardless of the situation (he literally told me that my spec doesn't exist ).

    Then again, he says bubble spam in Wrath was the best fun ever. lol
    Tiriel <Demise> of US-Kel'Thuzad

    Thank you to Yoni for this AMAZING signature!

  7. #47
    People seem to underestimate the ridiculous amount of buffs that druids are getting.

  8. #48
    I don't understand this nerf. The problem with disc is that it's extremely good in 10 mans this nerf relates more to 25 than 10. Disc throughput is on par or dare I say even a bit weaker than other non absorb classes. Do something about 10m disc not 25.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Whicker View Post
    This, to have the same SS effectiveness you now need 2 discs.
    I'd like to see SS changed to a 2 min CD and a 1 min debuff so you cant stack more then 2 Disc's SS.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuluslayer View Post
    Disc are miles ahead both in 10 and 25 man. www.raidbots.com
    In 10's yes, in 25's no.

  10. #50
    I agree that it seems like more of a 25man nerf. Our 10man team wouldn't need more than 10 seconds to pop Spirit Shell and shield us up for an incoming high damage phase, or during.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    In 10's yes, in 25's no.
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/#0000...00000000111111

    If this isn't miles ahead, what is? O.O

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/#0000...00000000111111

    If this isn't miles ahead, what is? O.O
    Content is on farm. Really doesn't count.

  13. #53
    Just wait till you get legendary cloak in 5.4 (which you can get on day 1 as it is currently), throughput healers eat absorb healers for breakfast with that overpowered proc. Seeing it's results on ptr was just amusing. I'm expecting the proc will get more changes cause the way it rewards overhealing classes is just stupid.
    Last edited by Isheria; 2013-07-26 at 09:37 AM.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Content is on farm. Really doesn't count.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111111 Disc has always been #1/#2 in 25 man HC and http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111111 #1/#2 (briefly) in 10 man HC.

    Agreed with Isheria. The Spirit of Chi-ji proc is stupid for OHing classes like MW, Resto Druids + Shaman. Enforces the "uplift for 80% overhealing" even more, which is bad IMO.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by juicyxo View Post
    you do realize top 100 parses are people who usually alter the fight in some way to rank, like less healers or use no cds, ect.
    I thought that until I started getting top 50ish and some in the 10-20s on almost every fight by spec anyways and I've never tried to rank ever and we usually heal with more than we need to (IE never 5 heal farm content)

    Usually the whole exploit to rank thing is more true of dps but even then we have a few number one and top ten ranks on fights that those people just did their rotation they didn't get any special buffs and we didn't kill it especially fast either.

    Maybe top 3 in most cases are the way you assume but definitely not top 100

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I think that the SS nerf is actually going to cause real issues in 25 mans, as it leaves 0 room for error when someone is going into a SS rotation. So if anything happens that makes you move, etc, you're going to have wasted the cast. Disc will still be strong, of course, because it's Disc and bubbles and Barrier, but it's a source of aggravation.

    I have a guy in my guild who does nothing but trash talk Holy and went so far as to change his offspec to Shadow to avoid having to play Holy ever (even on Tortos). So I think there will be some people who refuse to try Holy regardless of the situation (he literally told me that my spec doesn't exist ).

    Then again, he says bubble spam in Wrath was the best fun ever. lol
    Well according to the percentage of holy priests on 10m, he's not that far off. Even on 25m, where the spec shines the most, its the least played spec by quite a margin.

  17. #57
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    Well according to the percentage of holy priests on 10m, he's not that far off. Even on 25m, where the spec shines the most, its the least played spec by quite a margin.
    Not much shine in 10m as overall SS has proved to be consistently stronger in 10's vs 25's and the play style of atonement makes it overall easier to meet the earlier tier progression curves. Not too far off in 25's in terms of pure strength but as mentioned in previous threads, holy has its moments in ToT HC and overall I play it down to preference, way more fun a spec to play imho.

    5.4 will shake things up in either sense mixed with what Isheria has been saying about the cloak but as to whether it goes live or not is another question but hoping there is more/all fights where Holy is a viable option without gimping progression or playing 2nd fiddle to disc.

    Erebzion <Huhuholics> Tarren Mill EU

  18. #58
    Pit Lord HeatherRae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    2,284
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    Well according to the percentage of holy priests on 10m, he's not that far off. Even on 25m, where the spec shines the most, its the least played spec by quite a margin.
    Since we don't do 10 mans, I don't believe that was his reason for saying it!
    Tiriel <Demise> of US-Kel'Thuzad

    Thank you to Yoni for this AMAZING signature!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •