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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    I already cancelled my sub. I'm gonna go ahead and out myself as a lore/quest nerd here, but it's an important part of the game for me. I'm not going to play a game where I end up punished with substandard content for picking the wrong faction.
    Yet it isn't substandard content; you just label it that way.

    Both contents honestly are getting their equal share of story.

    It's up to YOU if you think it's well done or not.

    I think both sides have their share of amazing moments, plus none of us know truly WHAT happens in 5.4.

    Summarized, rude version:

    Stop jumping the gun and freaking out about shit before you experience it.
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  2. #42
    I think it's great from a lore perspective. I have mixed feelings about Garrosh's character arc as a whole, but dethroning him and creating a new direction for the Horde is definitely a good move at this point. And a final raid in which one faction rebels against its leader and the other faction besieges its enemy's capital? How is that not awesome lore?

    Quote Originally Posted by seiton View Post
    Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that the entire lore of 5.4 is summed up with "Varian practically conquers the Horde (a faction has been murdering his people and invading his lands for MANY YEARS) by killing and dethroning their Warchief with the help of some rebels, and then decides to let his biggest enemy pick a new Warchief and continue invading his land and threatening to destroy the Alliance."?
    No, you aren't the only one. Lots of other people are wrong too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    I already cancelled my sub. I'm gonna go ahead and out myself as a lore/quest nerd here, but it's an important part of the game for me. I'm not going to play a game where I end up punished with substandard content for picking the wrong faction.
    Which faction are you a part of? LOL, no way to even tell from your post.

    I play both sides and they've both had great lore in MoP.

    <- Also a lore nerd. I think the lore we're getting now is leagues ahead of say, Vanilla where faction leaders were mute or missing and all players did was fight bugs and big fire elementals (who had heretofore never existed). And TBC where Illidan and KT got reduced to bad guys to kill for lewt.

    Not to say Vanilla and TBC didn't also have some great lore, eg the Tirion Fordring chain and the Mag'har quest chain. But so much more happens in game these days - shit more big events happened in the 5.1 storyline quests than all of Vanilla and TBC combined.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2013-07-18 at 01:12 AM.
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  3. #43
    I started playing Horde, I dunno, probably around 8 years ago. Never went back to the Alliance since. At no point in time during the intervening years did I ever think to myself "You know what I'd give anything to do, self? Kill orcs." I can't speak for anyone else, but I, personally, hate killing the Kor'kron. I know they're supposed to be jack-booted thugs now. Don't care. Still hate killing them. I've done the bare minimum of the Barrens event, not because of the gameplay, which I actually don't mind. It's because all the mobs are orcs. With the occasional goblin. I hate killing those too. Killing these mobs makes me feel disgusted with myself.

    Now, this doesn't bode well for the upcoming raid as far as I'm concerned. I'm still coming to grips with the fact that it will be impossible for me to plausibly skip all the progression and farm days that hit Nazgrim. I'd rather not fight Garrosh at all, and certainly don't give a damn which characters show up in the room when he dies. Now if I played Alliance, things would be different. For the Alliance, orcs are the enemy. The Horde is the enemy. Orgrimmar is an enemy city. I'd form a raid, run in there and kill Garrosh and all the shopkeepers just for the fun of it. Who needs gear?

    Now my only consolation in all this would be that someone, somewhere, would be getting some sort of joy out of this experience of relentless orc ruination. To judge from the attitudes of the Alliance players, thinking they're being strung along, that is not the case. So I have to wonder why this raid even exists in the first place.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You cancelled your sub because of datamined stuff from the ptr? Doesn't that seem a little silly?
    I've tried "wait and see" several times in the past, but I've almost always been disappointed.

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Fishyface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You cancelled your sub because of datamined stuff from the ptr? Doesn't that seem a little silly?
    Its about as silly as someone quitting over a class change or an addition of a feature or anything else you can think of really. I mean there is really no good or bad reason for quitting a game in the first place. Mainly because the game isnt required so if it isnt fitting the way you want to have fun, shouldnt you drop it no matter the reason?
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    I started playing Horde, I dunno, probably around 8 years ago. Never went back to the Alliance since. At no point in time during the intervening years did I ever think to myself "You know what I'd give anything to do, self? Kill orcs." I can't speak for anyone else, but I, personally, hate killing the Kor'kron. I know they're supposed to be jack-booted thugs now. Don't care. Still hate killing them. I've done the bare minimum of the Barrens event, not because of the gameplay, which I actually don't mind. It's because all the mobs are orcs. With the occasional goblin. I hate killing those too. Killing these mobs makes me feel disgusted with myself.

    Now, this doesn't bode well for the upcoming raid as far as I'm concerned. I'm still coming to grips with the fact that it will be impossible for me to plausibly skip all the progression and farm days that hit Nazgrim. I'd rather not fight Garrosh at all, and certainly don't give a damn which characters show up in the room when he dies. Now if I played Alliance, things would be different. For the Alliance, orcs are the enemy. The Horde is the enemy. Orgrimmar is an enemy city. I'd form a raid, run in there and kill Garrosh and all the shopkeepers just for the fun of it. Who needs gear?

    Now my only consolation in all this would be that someone, somewhere, would be getting some sort of joy out of this experience of relentless orc ruination. To judge from the attitudes of the Alliance players, thinking they're being strung along, that is not the case. So I have to wonder why this raid even exists in the first place.
    Hardly the first time one has had to kill their own race. Trolls never get a break for a whole expansion. Humans have the Defians, thought hey were more prevelant in vanilla. Taurnen have the grimtotem, etc.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    I've tried "wait and see" several times in the past, but I've almost always been disappointed.
    We haven't even seen or heard what Varian says. We don't know his reasons. It was very illogical of you to quit of it.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Many people seem to equate a balanced story approach where everybody gets equal screentime to be the same thing as 'good storytelling,' where in reality it typically just kinda ends up as a mess.

    Not that this patch necessarily has good writing, but rather I am led to wonder why people automatically seem to believe that all of the lore will somehow be 'improved' by being all-inclusive to every faction in the game.
    Thank you! Storytelling that is contrived to be "balanced" between both sides is a recipe for a bland, trite, and boring plot. Of course, I can understand how Alliance players feel they haven't received interesting lore for the past 2 expansions, but "balanced" storytelling is not the answer.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Hardly the first time one has had to kill their own race. Trolls never get a break for a whole expansion. Humans have the Defians, thought hey were more prevelant in vanilla. Taurnen have the grimtotem, etc.
    Trolls never had to kill Vol'jin. Tauren never had to kill Cairne. Humans never had to grind SI:7 operatives and the Royal Guard once a week because they suddenly gained a taste for baby meat.

    These are Orgrimmar orcs. Some people might be able to wave it aside by saying that they're Blackrocks under the armor, but the armor is Orgrimmar armor. The banners are Orgrimmar banners. The city is Orgrimmar, that is the Horde, and the boss is the Warchief.

    And I never liked killing the Blackrocks anyway.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You cancelled your sub because of datamined stuff from the ptr? Doesn't that seem a little silly?
    Not really. The neglecting of Alliance lore and story development has been going on for a long time. Draenei haven't seen anything (aside from a short story out of game) in three expansions. I have to agree as a long-time Alliance player that I've about met my limit for this nonsense, especially seeing how Rift manages a two-faction game.
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  11. #51
    Personally I've enjoyed the lore for this particular event.
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  12. #52
    I wouldn't mind the inevitable disappointing conclusion for the alliance so much if we had had anything to be proud about or interested in in MoP. What have we seen so far? The 3 major plotlines of the alliance story revolving around Varian, Anduin, and Jaina. then we've had an incompetent Tyrande, and the conflict within in the Council of Three hammers put to a disappointing and out of nowhere end.

    Meanwhile Vol'jin, Lor'themar, the goblins( the 2 scenarios fit them perfectly), and to a small extent Baine have all done meaningful things, and judging by the 5.4 audio files the horde will be fighting along Sylvanas at some point though they did kind of get shafted. Even though almost all of their racial leaders have had positive development some horde are still claiming that they have gotten terrible lore so far. It seems they think that because the horde is going through one of its most difficult times right now that they are getting bad story when in reality they are getting great lore while the alliance gets to come along for the ride...again
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  13. #53
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Why is the Warcraft community so bitter and jaded? Like, honestly, Im not even kidding, people rageing over PTR. I love the game, specially the PVE, but with each passing day the community is worst and worst, atleast MMO-champion for that matter. If I were a new player trying to get in to the game I and I happen to find this site, id be put off by the attidude of some of these people. I know vocal minoritys and all, but this is actually kind of sad.
    Last edited by Shampro; 2013-07-18 at 01:31 AM.

  14. #54
    varian has always been like this. he isnt a brutal monster, he was there with a mission, and one mission only, garrosh was a problem and we went in there and fixed it.

    are we forgetting about how he offered thrall lumber even after the horde burned down his home and an orc ripped out his fathers heart? are we forgetting that in stormrage he personally lead both horde and alliance into battle? are we forgetting that his most trusted advisor, his son, is personally friends with both vol'jin and baine, are we forgetting that in cataclysm vol'jins people personally called out to varian to send help against the zandalari.

    varian is willing to wage war against the horde, he is willing to knock down walls and take down enemies, what he is not willing to do is cause needless bloodshed, what he is not willing to do is prolong a war that not only would just get more of his people killed but would continue to endanger his son, the one thing in this world he cares most for.

    he is not willing to become the monsters that tore down his home as a child, or the monster his best friend who he grew up with became when he became the lich king, he is not willing to become the monster that garrosh was.

    varian wrynn may not be the king you want, but hes the king you need. and hes a king all alliance should be proud of.
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  15. #55
    Mechagnome Fishyface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shampro View Post
    Why is the Warcraft community so bitter and jaded? Like, honestly, Im not even kidding, people rageing over PTR. I love the game, specially the PVE, but with each passing day the community is worst and worst, atleast MMO-champion for that matter. If I were a new player trying to get in to the game I and I happen to find this site, id be put off by the attidude of some of these people. I know vocal minoritys and all, but this is actually kind of sad.
    Well im jaded because they killed the game i used to love and play more than any other game in entire gaming career. That was a few years ago so i'm pretty much over it but hey i can still be bitter.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeothecat View Post
    I wouldn't mind the inevitable disappointing conclusion for the alliance so much if we had had anything to be proud about or interested in in MoP. What have we seen so far? The 3 major plotlines of the alliance story revolving around Varian, Anduin, and Jaina. then we've had an incompetent Tyrande, and the conflict within in the Council of Three hammers put to a disappointing and out of nowhere end.

    Meanwhile Vol'jin, Lor'themar, the goblins( the 2 scenarios fit them perfectly), and to a small extent Baine have all done meaningful things, and judging by the 5.4 audio files the horde will be fighting along Sylvanas at some point though they did kind of get shafted. Even though almost all of their racial leaders have had positive development some horde are still claiming that they have gotten terrible lore so far. It seems they think that because the horde is going through one of its most difficult times right now that they are getting bad story when in reality they are getting great lore while the alliance gets to come along for the ride...again
    Baine has done nothing. The main Tauren character in the quests is Sunwalker Dezco. Vol'jin dropped some totems and got himself stabbed in the neck. Lor'themar hasn't gotten anything Jaina didn't get, except for the fact that people could actually remember Jaina's name if you asked them what it was. Sylvanas and Gallywix are no-shows, and in Gallywix's case this is par for the course. And of course Garrosh has devolved into a man-ape that communicates by grunting and pointing.

    The Horde story has complexity, drama, angst, and grim darkness out the wazoo. This is true. And I'm going to say this only once. I'm fully aware that the grass is always greener on the other side. But I would still, despite knowing that, rather have the story the Alliance has got. Very much so.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2013-07-18 at 01:41 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by seiton View Post
    I am not an Alliance player, I am Horde. But if the entire force of the Alliance laid siege on a broken and divided faction, how would they lose?
    Vol'jin: Oh no what do we do, the alliance is here and we cant fight them....

    Sylvanas: yo bitch, I got plague bombs and a group of gals who are just dying to resurrect some humans.

    Vol'jin: herp derp something about honor derp

    Sylvanas: Nawp, doing it. YOLF, You Only Live Forever

    Vol'jin: Trueeeee

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Yet it isn't substandard content; you just label it that way.

    Both contents honestly are getting their equal share of story.

    It's up to YOU if you think it's well done or not.

    I think both sides have their share of amazing moments, plus none of us know truly WHAT happens in 5.4.

    Summarized, rude version:

    Stop jumping the gun and freaking out about shit before you experience it.
    I like your Rude Version better. I agree.

    What you get regardless of Lore:
    Goblin Shredders as mounts. A Siege on a capital city. Orcs at their finest and Worst in combat, More legendaries.

    What you get within the Lore:
    True intentions and ambitions of Wrathion, Horde and Alliance working together towards a common enemy, Faction Leaders taking part within the seige itself and the removal of Garrosh from power.

    If you don't like the fact that Garrosh dies in this Seige I have a quote for you from the legendary George R.R. Martin author taken from his response after the events of the "Red Wedding" were broadcast on HBO. Ahem....


    "Tough titty."
    Love - The friggin Author.

  19. #59
    Human dominated expansion for the alliance ends with a human dominating. I also like how Blizzard flat out lied about Varian not being the alliance version of warchief and now he has the power to make peace without consulting anyone. It's pretty ridiculous at this point.

    I hope they can move away from the humans dominating the alliance story and other races can get a chance to be involved.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Human dominated expansion for the alliance ends with a human dominating. I also like how Blizzard flat out lied about Varian not being the alliance version of warchief and now he has the power to make peace without consulting anyone. It's pretty ridiculous at this point.

    I hope they can move away from the humans dominating the alliance story and other races can get a chance to be involved.
    pretty sure if you are in charge of the entire military you can decide to tell them to put down their weapons.

    warchief = absolute ruler of all.

    high king = absolute ruler of the military forces
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