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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by FlacidGladiator View Post
    One, Varian doesn't conquer Orgrimmar. No army enters Orgrimmar, a raid of 25 people is just that, a raiding party, not an occupying army. Two, do you really think Wrynn could conquer Orgrimmar with a token force, far-far away from reinforcment and supply? After all, Menethil Harbor and the main alliance base in Kalimdor are both in ruins. If after dislodging Garrosh, you honestly think the orcs, trolls, and tauren would abide in an occupying force? Sylvannus would undoubtedly use the distraction to grab the Arathi basin and highlands as Wrynn would be slowly driven back into the sea from Kalimdor. No, this was Wrynn's only choice. Evacuate before the horde realizes he's over-extended himself by being in Kalimdor personally with only a small force. The fellow is wising up, the brash and stupid Wrynn would have tried to occupy Orgrimmar and wold have found himself a slave again. The wiser Wrynn realizes Orgrimmar is but a spot on the map and not the summation of the horde. Like they really needed his blessing to pick a new warchief. Get real.
    Pleas inform yourself with a lot of new sound files out there. Even GC said AA conquered Orgrimmar.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by FlacidGladiator View Post
    One, Varian doesn't conquer Orgrimmar. No army enters Orgrimmar, a raid of 25 people is just that, a raiding party, not an occupying army. Two, do you really think Wrynn could conquer Orgrimmar with a token force, far-far away from reinforcment and supply? After all, Menethil Harbor and the main alliance base in Kalimdor are both in ruins. If after dislodging Garrosh, you honestly think the orcs, trolls, and tauren would abide in an occupying force? Sylvannus would undoubtedly use the distraction to grab the Arathi basin and highlands as Wrynn would be slowly driven back into the sea from Kalimdor. No, this was Wrynn's only choice. Evacuate before the horde realizes he's over-extended himself by being in Kalimdor personally with only a small force. The fellow is wising up, the brash and stupid Wrynn would have tried to occupy Orgrimmar and wold have found himself a slave again. The wiser Wrynn realizes Orgrimmar is but a spot on the map and not the summation of the horde. Like they really needed his blessing to pick a new warchief. Get real.
    And what makes you think that the Alliance is bringing a 'token' force? I also doubt Sylvannas would start too much, considering she was afraid of Alliance retaliation after Theramore against the Forsaken. If Orgrimmar is crushed and the horde scattered, she wouldn't dare bring the might of a united alliance against her people alone. She needs the Horde as a deterrent against the Alliance.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    And what makes you think that the Alliance is bringing a 'token' force? I also doubt Sylvannas would start too much, considering she was afraid of Alliance retaliation after Theramore against the Forsaken. If Orgrimmar is crushed and the horde scattered, she wouldn't dare bring the might of a united alliance against her people alone. She needs the Horde as a deterrent against the Alliance.
    Where the hell keeps alliance pulling their manpower out of.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  4. #164
    News flash! Garrosh + his Kor'kron do not equal the Horde. The Alliance does not win anything-- they help overthrow Garrosh with the Horde. Furthermore, this raid is supposed to be a bloodbath and the Alliance is over-extended. A war between Alliance & Horde forces following Garrosh's end would not go well for either side. Hell, the only reason the Alliance is even involved in the first place is because Vol'jin asked for their help.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by seiton View Post
    Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that the entire lore of 5.4 is summed up with "Varian practically conquers the Horde (a faction has been murdering his people and invading his lands for MANY YEARS) by killing and dethroning their Warchief with the help of some rebels, and then decides to let his biggest enemy pick a new Warchief and continue invading his land and threatening to destroy the Alliance."? How is that logical in any way? What nation would give their enemies an opportunity to gain in strength and gain power again? And doesn't this basically force the Horde to "kiss up" to the alliance from now on?

    In reality, if blizz were to make this lore work, they would have had to make the Horde collapse, which obviously wouldn't happen (And this is coming from a Horde player).
    First pretty sure you mean the story in 5.4 not the lore, second if you want peace its a good first step, even thos its been alot of fightning betwen horde and alliance pretty much everything Varian been doing in mop is trying to get peace instead of war, manage to get pretty far in negotiation with blood elfs before Jaina went on a rage tour in Dalaran.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by xixixviixiiii View Post
    News flash! Garrosh + his Kor'kron do not equal the Horde. The Alliance does not win anything-- they help overthrow Garrosh with the Horde. Furthermore, this raid is supposed to be a bloodbath and the Alliance is over-extended. A war between Alliance & Horde forces following Garrosh's end would not go well for either side. Hell, the only reason the Alliance is even involved in the first place is because Vol'jin asked for their help.
    Not true. The Alliance was planning to siege Orgrimmar before they even knew Vol'jin was still alive and doing his rebellion. It was the Alliance that approached Vol'jin in order to use him to crack open Orgrimmar.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Not true. The Alliance was planning to siege Orgrimmar before they even knew Vol'jin was still alive and doing his rebellion. It was the Alliance that approached Vol'jin in order to use him to crack open Orgrimmar.
    Pre-Vol'jin's rebellion, the Alliance was doing no more than spying on Garrosh. They have no encampments or defenses at all around Orgrimmar and were in no shape to launch an attack. An invasion may have been the ultimate plan but it was the realization that Vol'jin was working on a full-scale invasion NOW that really got the Alliance moving. Vol'jin and the Horde are supplying the Alliance with a launching point.

    The point is, if Alliance seized Org (or attempted to) they'd probably be decimated in the process. The Tauren & (now) Goblin capital cities are nearby and would easily re-take Org before the Alliance could resupply their forces. The Blood Elves & Forsaken would then use the opportunity to march down and conquer more of Eastern Kingdoms. All this happening while the humans and dwarves are sailing across the sea.
    Last edited by xixixviixiiii; 2013-07-18 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #168
    I think this could be very interesting if they put a right spin on it.

    - Alliance Semi-Conquers Horde.

    - Orgrimar and other Horde cities are filled with Alliance guards.

    - Horde are the "lesser", underdog faction for about the length of a minor patch (like 5.3) or so

    - Huge PVP event before the next expansion

    - Horde slowly gather their forces in the background. Great quests on both sides. Horde players are part of the brewing rebellion. One of the lesser leaders of the Alliance has gotten some tip about this, and now sends the player to investigate. Try to get some more information before informing the King through an epic quest line.

    Event:

    The final (solo) quest for both factions is released.

    The Alliance player finally gets absolute confirmation that shit is about to get real. Oh No! It's too late! (Phased) Huge battle in erupts Orgrimmar (carefully crafted PVE sequence or a cutscene). The player somehow gets knocked out during the battle.

    Wakes up in some Priest healing quarters (whatever, damn hospital).

    They fully heal you up, and you are informed that the biggest blood bath in generations is going on RIGHT NOW, somewhere on neutral territory. The Alliance are desperately trying to gain back control of the Horde. The Horde is so vicious right now from being bitc@#$ of the Alliance ever since Garrosh was killed, they are insane, and they want Wrynns head.

    You accept the quest to go to the location where the final battle for control of the Horde is taking place.

    "If you're back to your full strength, depart immediately! We need more soldiers on the battlefield!"

    A Mage portal to the place of the battle (some suitable area) is waiting for you somewhere in Stormwind.

    The Horde obviously has been part of the rebellion since the beginning.


    The battle will have a ton of NPC's going at it, as well as all of the players (prepare for lagfest). At the end of the battle, the party is crashed by some news of the new threat to Azeroth (expansion, let's assume Burning Legion). Both factions NEED to call it truths for the moment to build back their strength against the cataclysmic events to come.

    AAAAAND SCENE!

    At the end of the 2-3 day pre-expansion event, the player will obviously get a FoS, and some sort of faction-unique vanity item (like the Haunted Locket in Wrath). The battle itself would involve a couple of quests such as kill 100 horde / 50 horde players in that zone (you choose which one, if your server has no horde / alliance to kill or you hate PVP) and other fun objectives to help out in the battle.

    PS: Obviously the horde players will not notice the short Alliance presence in Orgrimar aside from the guards having new models for a while and maybe occasionally /spitting on them or rude comments about their smell. You don't have to participate in the festivities if you don't want to.

    *** I have absolutely no clue if this has a million inconsistencies. I don't know too much about the Lore. Just a bit of fun and an example of how they could actually turn this into something cool.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by xixixviixiiii View Post
    Pre-Vol'jin's rebellion, the Alliance was doing no more than spying on Garrosh. They have no encampments or defenses at all around Orgrimmar and were in no shape to launch an attack. An invasion may have been the ultimate plan but it was the realization that Vol'jin was working on a full-scale invasion NOW that really got the Alliance moving. Vol'jin and the Horde are supplying the Alliance with a launching point.

    The point is, if Alliance seized Org (or attempted to) they'd probably be decimated in the process. The Tauren & (now) Goblin capital cities are nearby and would easily re-take Org before the Alliance could resupply their forces. The Blood Elves & Forsaken would then use the opportunity to march down and conquer more of Eastern Kingdoms. All this happening while the humans and dwarves are sailing across the sea.
    They're spying on Garrosh with the explicit intent to attack Orgrimmar and end the war. Would there be massive casualties if the Alliance went alone? Yes, that's why they use Vol'jin, but that doesn't mean they didn't intend to attack before they learned about his rebellion. Nor does it mean that the eastern kingdoms are utterly without defenses. You're also assuming that the blood elves have any reason to push further south in the eastern kingdoms, and that Sylvannas can spread her own forces infinitely to keep on conquoriing unoposed.

  10. #170
    Blizz forgot how to write lore long time ago. Still nothing can be worse than Dragon Soul lore wise.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Plenty of people care about other aspects of the lore aside from the Burning Lol-gion and the Lol King....
    I'm sure. And if you wait long enough, all 18 of them should show up in this thread.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'm sure. And if you wait long enough, all 18 of them should show up in this thread.
    Count me as one. I like the legion and scourge etc, but I also like the lore in MoP. Only thing that was a let down was thunder king because he never did anything notable after his ressurection besides build up forces on the isle of thunder.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Only thing that was a let down was thunder king because he never did anything notable after his ressurection besides build up forces on the isle of thunder.
    I think I saw him 3 times total.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  14. #174
    Haven't read all the replies in this thread but look at real life. Why do you think there was a WW2?

  15. #175
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    tbh wow lore hasn't that been very strong the past few years..we have gone from having interesting characters and stories to the same old boss coming back 50 odd times >.<

  16. #176
    Dude, the lore has been bad since Cataclysm launched. And it's honestly only getting worse. The mere fact that they focused an entire expansion's worth of content around panda land speaks volumes of the lore Blizzard is baking over at their HQ. Alot of people, including myself, stopped giving two shits about the lore after we killed the Lich King, because all meaningful lore died with him. Ever since then, it's just been kind of a random hodge podge of whatever the hell Blizzard can come up with and throw into the game. I even stopped reading the Warcraft books because the lore is getting so bad and fucked up at this point (and this is someone who had read every single Warcraft book since the original #1, #2, and #3 Warcraft books had come out).

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    Dude, the lore has been bad since Cataclysm launched.
    Replay warcraft 3, it was always cheesy as hell. It was just first RTS that presented acceptable voice actor and cinematics.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  18. #178
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Replay warcraft 3, it was always cheesy as hell. It was just first RTS that presented acceptable voice actor and cinematics.
    I wouldnt say it was THAT bad. I Agree orc campain and end of W3 with "unite and smite em with friendship" was cheesy, but undead missions (both normal and frozen throne) were pretty cool. And aside that, night elves were portayed much better than now.

  19. #179
    Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is 101 stories that could be written to make this fit. After SOO Wrynn might strike up peace with the new Horde leadership, shocker I know, fancy there not being war in Warcraft, or some big enemy shaped up to be villain in the next ex-PAC, but come 6.0 something flairs up to disrupte the peace, and thus commence the bloodshed. Wouldn't it be a turn up if both leaders went "hey, great job on Garrash, wanna chill for a few years ?" "Ya mon".
    WHEN I POST IN CAPS CURSE SPEAK FOR ALL PALADINS AND REFRAIN FROM PUNCTUATION EXCEPT AT THE END OF MY SENTENCE WHERE I USE EXTRA YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH MY LOGIC!!!!!!!

  20. #180
    The whole expansion pandas have been telling us that BALANCE is important, and that the Horde and Alliance balance each other out, improve each other and complement each other.
    The heir to the throne of Stormwind has been traveling around Pandaria the whole expansion, he has been learning these lessons the whole time, Varian has been shown to pay more and more attention to his son and his ideals. There is the possibility that Anduin himself convinced his father to back out, or maybe the newly enlightened Vol'jin(from that new book) talks him down.
    Beyond that the Alliance has always been shown to be, at the very least, above senseless slaughter. Even after end of the second war they interned the orcs, instead of executing them.
    What I'm trying to say is that just because some dragon whelp thinks his genocidal plan was the best course of action does not make it so. Furthermore the seeds of the Alliance taking the high road at the end of this conflict have been in the lore since the bloody RTS games.

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