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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    What kind of Ice Cream have YOU been eating? o_O;

    I personally like the name, though I think there's much more important matters at hand to discuss. Regardless, it's still "Frostburn" anyways, so you could probably send some suggestions over to Ghostcrawler.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the entire new mastery concept was Lhiveras original idea, and GC basically approached him first to say "Oi Lhivera - think of a new Frost mastery idea that addresses X Y Z and get back to us". And he did just that - and this was the result.

    I know many won't care for this - but I think it opens up some cool room for more fun, cosmetic, talent, set bonus and glyph alterations. Some new shiny visuals, glyphs to change appearance, talents and set bonuses to alter how Icicles might behave (store an extra charge, ability to release all charges in one go instantly, icicles could create an absorb shield instead of dealing damage, ability to fire Icicles at your Water Elemental to enrage it for bonus damage or to activate a special ability etc, ability to have icicles hit multiple targets for reduced damage, a bit like Fire and Brimstone - etc random stuff like that). The Mage class overall just needs more fun factor selling points currently (yes - I think the Warlocks stole the lions share of cool concepts and ideas this expansion).

    e) fireblast replaced with a frost themed version, along the lines of how inferno blast replaces that spell for fire spec (e.g., iceblast--super creative name)
    Destruction aoe via Fire and Brimstone is incredibly fun. Personally id love to see a Frost themed Fireblast that could interact with icicles to (optionally) use them in an Aoe Rotation. Nice way to increase the versatility of the mastery.

    "Iceblast: Instantly deals X damage and causes your next 5 Icicles released to hit all enemies around your current target for % damage. Replaces Fireblast". Or make it some version of Havoc, "... and causes your next 5 Icicles to also hit this target".

    I like the potential for the mastery to be tied into the spec in new and exciting ways, even if we'd have to wait until 6.0 before we see potential big shakeups to doso. If Blizzard wanted, they could tie it into the spec with a neat resource style twist in a similar fashion to Soul Shards to Affliction warlocks.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2013-07-18 at 06:00 PM.

  2. #142
    Wouldnt it have been easier to just do something like: Each time you cast Frostbolt you add xx% dmg to icelance. Stacks 5 time. Or am i missing something?

  3. #143
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdamte View Post
    Wouldnt it have been easier to just do something like: Each time you cast Frostbolt you add xx% dmg to icelance. Stacks 5 time. Or am i missing something?
    Lolno.

    The cool thing that was overlooked but those of us who DON'T have MVP Insider Information is that when you get a 6th Icicle, the 1st one launches, so you never waste them.

    It's essentially a cooler way of just giving us 1.5% damage per point of mastery on FB, WEllyBolt, and Frostfire Bolt (but only on those 3 spells, hence why the % per Mastery should be around 2 or even 3%)

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  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Destruction aoe via Fire and Brimstone is incredibly fun. Personally id love to see a Frost themed Fireblast that could interact with icicles to (optionally) use them in an Aoe Rotation. Nice way to increase the versatility of the mastery.

    "Iceblast: Instantly deals X damage and causes your next 5 Icicles released to hit all enemies around your current target for % damage. Replaces Fireblast". Or make it some version of Havoc, "... and causes your next 5 Icicles to also hit this target".

    I like the potential for the mastery to be tied into the spec in new and exciting ways, even if we'd have to wait until 6.0 before we see potential big shakeups to doso. If Blizzard wanted, they could tie it into the spec with a neat resource style twist in a similar fashion to Soul Shards to Affliction warlocks.
    First and foremost, I'm very eager to play with this new change. I think that if mastery can overtake haste, frost'll be able to be a competitive spec. Nevertheless, I've been busy and have neglected to read through any of the number crunching - so I'm not sure if mastery overtaking haste will be the case. But some light theory crafting would suggest stacking haste until one's reached the soft cap and then proceeding to stack mastery will be the preference. The rationale behind this (and again, this may've been stated already or refuted) is that more haste will mean more casts, which'll mean more procs, which'll mean more contributing damage to our icicles. However, I guess that it's going to come down to whether or not more procs will be able to outweigh the static increase of mastery. Would hate to see frost turn into a pray-to-the-proc-gods spec.

    As far as warlock AoE is concerned, I've been playing a destro lock (no UVLS or meta) for our split raids, and I've got to say: It's a ton of a fun. Horridon as a destro lock is probably one of my favorite fights this tier. The unfortunate bit is that destro doesn't seem like it'll be viable next tier (sort of like an even worse version of frost but for warlocks). But I digress; adding some flavor to a somewhat dull aoe rotation - the exception being when frozen orb is up - isn't necessary at the moment. While frost isn't incredible on consistent aoe encounters, it's not awful either. I'd much rather see them fix its single-target performance.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Lolno.

    The cool thing that was overlooked but those of us who DON'T have MVP Insider Information is that when you get a 6th Icicle, the 1st one launches, so you never waste them.
    Couldnt they just pool that extra charge for the next icelance? I dont know, seems like a awfull lot of fireworks for what essential is - cast frostbolt for harder hitting Icelances. But i guess that extra fluff is what makes games interesting

  6. #146
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    Why everybody want Waterbolt removed from Icicle? It's not Ignite.

    It's not like a low Icicle can replace a big Icicle putting it into waste. But there's no waste.
    So removing Waterbolt from Icicle will result in a nerf ...

    For some PvP reason, low Icicle can be less interesting because it will be use in burst. The best solution would be to not let Water Elemental casting at all. But at the same time rolling Icicle and Waterbolt on enemy player is doing some pressure DPS before the burst.

    End, rolling Icicle based of Waterbolt can be help a lot on heavy movement.

    Conclusion, Icicle isn't Ignite. There's no reason that we don't want it even if it from low damage.
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  7. #147
    I'm not certain this does anything to solve the poor performance Frost is going to have next tier.

    It only benefits single target spells, and instead of being a simple baked in damage this has the potential to "waste" the extra damage.

    For example: You're fighting a boss that spawns adds that must be killed quickly. You're DPSing as per usually, but as you discharge your stacks with a IL the add spawns. You've basically just wasted all of the extra damage that these stacks provided on a non-priority target, which really hurts your ability to contribute to bursting down the add. If there are multiple targets that need to be cleaved down, this mastery adds almost nothing.

    Any fight that requires really fast target switching, decent cleave damage, or in general killing a bunch of adds in a priority list will make this mastery next to useless.

    It also doesn't interact at all with NT, which you cast a ton of on fights with lots of adds / multiple enemies.

    Pete is implying SoO is exactly that kind of scenario. I have my own friends from US top 10 guilds who have been testing the PTR stuff, I could see what they think about it too in relation to how SoO raids are looking and the types of damage output that is required from players.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2013-07-18 at 07:55 PM.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Any fight that requires really fast target switching, decent cleave damage, or in general killing a bunch of adds in a priority list will make this mastery next to useless.
    I strongly disagree. If adds are a big priority (like the ones the conveyor belt adds on Siegecraft Blackfuse), you just need to hold your fingers of frost procs. Sure, you're sacrificing single target damage, but you'll likely have an incredible burst on the adds, which are the essence of the fight. If adds aren't a huge priority, then don't worry about how you spend your icicles. If they are, then plan ahead.

  9. #149
    I am going to say it's a NERF right now, very slightly. HOWEVER, I do believe they're going to be buffing frost quite a bit. They want to see how it acts in pve and pvp, and then adjust accordingly. I think they can make frost pve viable without breaking pvp now, for sure. Since it double dips on resilience.


    If frost pulls around 10k of what fire does next patch in the sims, I am definitely going frost! I would love those icicles ._.



    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    I'm not certain this does anything to solve the poor performance Frost is going to have next tier.

    It only benefits single target spells, and instead of being a simple baked in damage this has the potential to "waste" the extra damage.

    For example: You're fighting a boss that spawns adds that must be killed quickly. You're DPSing as per usually, but as you discharge your stacks with a IL the add spawns. You've basically just wasted all of the extra damage that these stacks provided on a non-priority target, which really hurts your ability to contribute to bursting down the add. If there are multiple targets that need to be cleaved down, this mastery adds almost nothing.

    Any fight that requires really fast target switching, decent cleave damage, or in general killing a bunch of adds in a priority list will make this mastery next to useless.

    It also doesn't interact at all with NT, which you cast a ton of on fights with lots of adds / multiple enemies.

    Pete is implying SoO is exactly that kind of scenario. I have my own friends from US top 10 guilds who have been testing the PTR stuff, I could see what they think about it too in relation to how SoO raids are looking and the types of damage output that is required from players.


    No? You save your stacks for when an add spawns, it's called dbm. Just watch it. Okay you have two FoF but the add spawns in 5 seconds...clearly save it, yeah your wasting a tiny bit of dps potentially, but you'll burst the add way quicker. If you get 2 FoF and the add spawns in 10 seconds? You have enough time to re-build your 5 icicles at that point..

    Your making it into a bigger issue than it actually is lol.


    It's the same as arcane saving 4 stacks for an add, or fire saving 2 pyros. You may need to stop dps, or have a proc clip but your saving for the add. That's across all mage specs......



    At this point frost just needs more damage buffs, and that mastery does need to be brought up to 2% a point of mastery.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-18 at 08:24 PM.

  10. #150
    Hoping for some frost buffs that won't impact pvp much, would really enjoy a change of pace if frost is optimal for the majority of siege fights with the new tier set.

  11. #151
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    I'm not certain this does anything to solve the poor performance Frost is going to have next tier.
    It's the start. This allows them to shift the Mastery boost to buff PvE without buffing PvP too much (and as we're all aware, Frost is DEAD in PvP anyways on 5.4 atm). This still leaves the path open to remove FB stacks and inherently buff WEllyBolt and Ice Lance base as well.

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  12. #152
    As an FYI, Lhivera posted that the double dip on reduction is intended as per developer he is chatting with.

  13. #153
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    As an FYI, Lhivera posted that the double dip on reduction is intended as per developer he is chatting with.
    Which makes no sense if we don't double dip on the increases too. All this does is nerf Frost PvP into the ground.

    Base resil (No PvP gear/gems/set bonuses) is 65%. Base Mastery is 12%. Base Mastery against players/pets with base resilience = 4.2% Icicles (again, on ZERO RESILIENCE TARGETS). Is this a joke?

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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Which makes no sense if we don't double dip on the increases too. All this does is nerf Frost PvP into the ground.

    Base resil (No PvP gear/gems/set bonuses) is 65%. Base Mastery is 12%. Base Mastery against players/pets with base resilience = 4.2% Icicles (again, on ZERO RESILIENCE TARGETS). Is this a joke?
    Yeah, the double dipping in pvp seems like a pretty substantial nerf.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by verdamte View Post
    Couldnt they just pool that extra charge for the next icelance? I dont know, seems like a awfull lot of fireworks for what essential is - cast frostbolt for harder hitting Icelances. But i guess that extra fluff is what makes games interesting
    You completely misunderstood the Mastery. It doesn't do anything for Icelance. It buffs Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt and Water Bolt.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxedwaffle View Post
    Yeah, the double dipping in pvp seems like a pretty substantial nerf.
    That's really stupid. They should really remove double-dipping resilience. Touch of Karma also double dips from resilience sort of.

    It's already quite hard to cast frostbolt in PvP, so the mastery will already be -not as great-, but if it double dips it's really quite meh at best.

  17. #157
    I stacked 5 times new mastery buffs.. And nothing heppens... It's a bug ?
    Ok I relog and this start works.. with 60% mastery have 20% damage of total.
    Last edited by icyfresh; 2013-07-18 at 10:24 PM.

  18. #158
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    New Mastery is bugged. HAH. (It still is when hitting anything but a L93...)

    They do literally nothing atm.

    Edit: Apparently hitting a level 60 dummy will yield nothing, but a 93 dummy while my PTR self is not hit capped works wonders.


    HERE'S SOME INFORMATION STUFF LIKE I PROMISED:

    ***- The Mastery is completely bugged against non-93 targets and only grants you icicles, but they refuse to fire on anything but bosses/boss dummies (someone report this to the official forums; I'm making an in game report)

    - They float above your head and follow you, building up to 5.

    - Getting a 6th shoots one out and immediately replaces it.
    -- Casting Ice Lance (FoF or non-FoF) will start shooting them all out; more Haste = they fire off quicker (but do not travel quicker)
    --- You can chain more than 5 from one Ice Lance if you get more before they expend. e.g., you have 5 stacks, cast Ice Lance. They start to fly out. If you get 2 more from FB and WEllyBolt in that time before the 5th is shot out, the 2 you just got will shoot as well from the same Ice Lance.

    - They have a delay on when they shoot out, and they are NOT FAST by any means (unlike Ice Lance). It's pretty underwhelming in that regard, but that's just aesthetics/projectile speed.

    - They have a nice blue trail effect whenever you move


    Basically, everything (except numbers; haven't bothered to test numbers because others test it better) in Lhivera's website is correct regarding Icicles.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-07-18 at 10:46 PM.

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  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    New Mastery is bugged. HAH.

    They do literally nothing atm.
    Mine was working just fine. My mastery was high due to my MS being arcane, so the icicles did anywhere from 15-20% of my damage. Hit anywhere from 20-160k
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  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    New Mastery is bugged. HAH.

    They do literally nothing atm.
    Use Raid dummies

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