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  1. #41
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    600 mastery rating = 1 point of mastery. Everyone has 8 base points, which is the 12%. 1.5*8=12.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    600 mastery rating = 1 point of mastery. Everyone has 8 base points, which is the 12%. 1.5*8=12.
    So I am still doing my math wrong, the 82.51 I have is including the base. Sooo right now it'd be 62% of my frostbolt, FFB and water bolt. Still not bad. 130% would be quite ridiculous, however they could always buff it to 2% per 1 point

  3. #43
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    No, the icicles cant crit (which I disagree with). If they are going to double dip on resil and hit chance, they should also double dip on crit chance.
    ^^^^^^

    Shouldn't be affected by resil; it's retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    So between this change and the 4set for frost, I am having a hard time convincing myself to not go frost for the next tier.
    That's a HARD choice? o_O

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    So it does 1.5% increased per point of mastery, if it scales like arcane mastery I have 82.51 mastery in raid. With 12% + (81.52 * 1.5) = 135.765% of my frostbolts, FFBs and water elemental bolts each time an icicle fires off? And thats with my i530 gear mastery..Granted I don't have a lot of haste and with buffs im at 20% crit...so I'd need some more crit first. Then mastery > haste > crit?
    All of this just seems incorrect .-.;

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  4. #44
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    First big question : What about Icy veins glyph and Icc ???
    -- create 1 Icc by mini-bolt
    or
    -- sum all 3 mini-bolt then add it as an Icc
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    First big question : What about Icy veins glyph and Icc ???
    -- create 1 Icc by mini-bolt
    or
    -- sum all 3 mini-bolt then add it as an Icc

    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    ^^^^^^

    Shouldn't be affected by resil; it's retarded.



    That's a HARD choice? o_O



    All of this just seems incorrect .-.;

    It is incorrect



    "So I am still doing my math wrong, the 82.51 I have is including the base. Sooo right now it'd be 62% of my frostbolt, FFB and water bolt. Still not bad. 130% would be quite ridiculous, however they could always buff it to 2% per 1 point"

    is correct.

    And the mini frost bolts prob create individual ones most likely.

  6. #46
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    I think the triple IL/FFB's count as 3 spells so it would just generate 3 Icicles. It's going to look impressive that's for sure.

    I think overall the mastery change is just to fix pvp more then anything in its current state.

    We'll have to wait and see if we can now go for mastery or int after the 15,697 haste breakpoint.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I think the triple IL/FFB's count as 3 spells so it would just generate 3 Icicles. It's going to look impressive that's for sure.

    I think overall the mastery change is just to fix pvp more then anything in its current state.

    We'll have to wait and see if we can now go for mastery or int after the 15,697 haste breakpoint.
    How does this "fix" PvP? Frost is already pretty shit in comparison to other classes, and this is a nerf to our burst.

  8. #48
    I for myself like the new mastery, because it is not just a plain damage increase. If this is tuned correctly and doesn't scale horribly I'm really looking forward to this This again shows me that I should stack more mastery on my gear.

  9. #49
    Dreadlord Vynistra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    So I am still doing my math wrong, the 82.51 I have is including the base. Sooo right now it'd be 62% of my frostbolt, FFB and water bolt. Still not bad. 130% would be quite ridiculous, however they could always buff it to 2% per 1 point
    I had to do a double take, was like I've posted in this thread?!
    On topic though, I'm liking this PVE wise, will have to give it another shot.

  10. #50
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    82.51 arc == 61.8825 icicles, yeah. It's not bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    First big question : What about Icy veins glyph and Icc ???
    -- create 1 Icc by mini-bolt
    or
    -- sum all 3 mini-bolt then add it as an Icc
    Makes 1 icicle per mini-bolt. So one cast = 3 icicles.

    I have fucking typed icicles more times in the past hour than I have ever before, and it's starting to lose meaning.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    82.51 arc == 61.8825 icicles, yeah. It's not bad.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Makes 1 icicle per mini-bolt. So one cast = 3 icicles.

    I have fucking typed icicles more times in the past hour than I have ever before, and it's starting to lose meaning.
    Lol I am hoping they just adjust frost to fires dps in pve, doubt it'll happen. I got excited for nothing I feel like, amazing mastery, yet I feel like fire will just melt frosts icicles =(

  12. #52
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    How does this "fix" PvP? Frost is already pretty shit in comparison to other classes, and this is a nerf to our burst.
    My bad. I should have said it changes pvp in a way to allow pve to be fixed.

    It might not be that big of a burst nerf if you can generate 5 strong icicles using frostbolt and BF before you use deep freeze.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Lol I am hoping they just adjust frost to fires dps in pve, doubt it'll happen. I got excited for nothing I feel like, amazing mastery, yet I feel like fire will just melt frosts icicles =(
    You're not the only one who wants frost at the top. The fire nerfs helped expose people to frost as a viable spec but it really needs a tier on top to properly make people consider it a real pve spec.
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  13. #53
    Omg mage changes <3
    From first view mastery change looks like slight nerf than buff (16% base -> 12% and no effect on Lance, but Frostbolt), but huge Lance buff really makes me smile
    Edit: I forgot to take into account -15% damage to frostbolt due to debuff change :\

    Some napkin math from me aswell: Take my log from Megaera: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8651&e=9074 I took Megaera because we can say this fight is rougly static.
    Imagine I did just 100 damage, so 19,4 is Frostbolt, 14,1 is Lance and 12,8 FFB. My Welly also did 12,73 damage according to log. And 59,03 in total from this spells.
    1) Imagine also I have no mastery, only base.
    Lets remove old mastery and add new one:
    Frostbolt: (19,4 -15%) + 12% = 18,89
    Lance: 14,1 - 16% = 12,155 (from this point and below -X% value does not mean 100(100%)-14%=84, but rather 100(114%)-14%=87,72 - I substract mastery value)
    FFB: (12,8 - 16%) + 12% = 12,36
    Welly: (12,73 - 16%) + 12% = 12,29
    So 55,69 total - damage nerf. But lets take into account Lance buff: 18,89 + 12,155 * 1,29 + 12,36 + 12,29 = 59,22 - very slight damage increase.

    2) Lets count again with my real level of mastery which is ~31% That meats old mastery = 31% and new one is 27% New mastery is 3\4 from old one and this is 23,25%
    Frostbolt: (19,4 - 15%) + 23,25% = 20,79
    Ice Lance: 14,1 - 31% = 10,76
    FFB: (12,8 - 31%) + 23,25% = 12,04
    Welly: (12,73 - 31%) + 23,25% = 11,98
    55,57 in total - already damage increase, and if we take into account Lance buff this will be 58,69 or ~3,7 total dps increase. ffs thats nerf :\

    More mastery = more dps increase, since Frostbolt stays main portion of our damage on any fight.

    There is only thing that bothering me - 5 charges of Icicles. With metagem proc or hero haste value can be rather high, so can it result we will gain 5 charges faster than spend it?

    Edit: that means more mastery = less dps ? :-\ what the hell It seems every point of mastery provides less dps than previous one.
    Last edited by ssviolett; 2013-07-18 at 08:06 AM.

  14. #54
    Ah Lhivera, much respect I have for him.

    I remember reading and admiring his Frost mage PvE discussions back in The Burning Crusade. And here we are now many years later - still reading on with admiration and respect.

    I like the sound of the new mastery, sounds more fun than the original. (Which might sound trivial - but currently I think the mage mage class is lacking fun factor in many ways compared to others - and it needs every bit of help it can get.)
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2013-07-18 at 07:13 AM.

  15. #55
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssviolett View Post
    There is only thing that bothering me - 5 charges of Icicles. With metagem proc or hero haste value can be rather high, so can it result we will gain 5 charges faster than spend it?
    If a 6th icicle is generated the oldest icicle fired instantly. You can't waste them but you can probably use them sub-optimally on certain fights.
    Last edited by jtmzac; 2013-07-18 at 07:23 AM.
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  16. #56
    After the initial read i thought this basicly would be a overloaded Icelance when charged up. That could have been interesting together with Shatter. A 5 second dot/channel which cant crit is alot less interesting imo. Frost Ignite as someone mentioned.
    If they could remove the water ele from the mastery and make the Icicle able to crit (but the with static charges ) so at least you could shatter the Icicles, i would personally like it more.
    At any time i would prefere the live Frostburn though - live frostburn is very intuitive, fun and in pvp it has the good quality of rewarding a proper setup for the mage and can be countered by the targets. If only it where more consistent in the various game environments

  17. #57
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I think the triple IL/FFB's count as 3 spells so it would just generate 3 Icicles. It's going to look impressive that's for sure.
    If triple FFB/FB/WEllyBolts don't make 3 Icicles, then we have a SERIOUS issue.

    - Unglyphed IV sucks if our Haste is too high (This would also devalue Haste)
    - Glyphed IV sucks because it only generates one 40% Icicle instead of one 100% Icicle.

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  18. #58
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shullski View Post
    Im sure most have you have ran across it already, but if you havent...the new PTR build brought in a new new Mastery for Frost in the form of Icicles.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/76613-ma...es#17191-17205

    Who knows how it will play out...but it seems like it will help with the consistency of Frost Mage damage in both PvE and PvP, and rely less heavily on blowing all of your procs at once..not to mention it seems like it will be pretty fun. Who knows how much damage the Icicles will do.

    Thoughts? Im personally excited
    Actually, that sounds kindda cool.. Will sit back and wait to see if it becomes real
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    If triple FFB/FB/WEllyBolts don't make 3 Icicles, then we have a SERIOUS issue.

    - Unglyphed IV sucks if our Haste is too high (This would also devalue Haste)
    - Glyphed IV sucks because it only generates one 40% Icicle instead of one 100% Icicle.
    I believe this is the least of our problems. Also this would be very weird - to use IV and degrading dps.

  20. #60
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    The IV glyph won't reduce our dps.

    If it doesn't create 3 icicles the only other option I can think of is the game combining the 3 spells into 1 icicle to prevent visual clutter.
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