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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathan View Post
    As sidenote: You have magearmor. I know resilience lowers it at the other end but we have to take that in mind.
    Yup of course, all I'm trying to say is that those doomsayers who say Frost Mage will be dead in 5.4 PvP is terribly wrong.

    Edit:

    Forgot to say that my gearing/reforging/gemming is a straight up copy from my toon on live which is more geared towards haste than mastery, I believe gearing for full mastery next patch will be better. (In PvP that is)
    Last edited by Sprinkler; 2013-08-07 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #482
    Ice Lance damage has been increased by 43%.

    Mastery: Frostburn has been replaced by Mastery: Icicles. When the Mage damages an enemy with their Frostbolt, and Frostfire Bolt (16% + 2% per Mastery) of the damage done is stored as an Icicle for 15 seconds. Mastery: Icicles also increases the Water Elemental’s Water Bolt damage by (16% + 2% per Mastery). Up to 5 Icicles can be stored at once. Casting Ice Lance launches all stored Icicles at the target.
    Frostbolt now deals 10% less damage and no longer increases the damage of any spells. The damage for those spells have been increased instead.

    Is frost still around a 3% dps loss with the latest changes?

  3. #483
    Dreadlord
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    This is an another nerf by ~4% (on top of rppm nerf). We are overall @ ~-11% compared to live.

  4. #484
    Dreadlord Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    This is an another nerf by ~4% (on top of rppm nerf). We are overall @ ~-11% compared to live.
    What's the point then? Frost is hardly ripping up the meters as it is. If anything we need a buff of ~11%.

    I can only hope they have some sort of buff in mind that we have not been informed of yet.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    What's the point then? Frost is hardly ripping up the meters as it is. If anything we need a buff of ~11%.

    I can only hope they have some sort of buff in mind that we have not been informed of yet.
    PvP is the point. Incredible amounts of Mage QQ from 1700 players about how our burst is out of control so blizzard caves and nerfs the shit out of our damage and can't find a way to compensate in PvE. It's long past due for "spell does X damage (Y if used against players)"

  6. #486
    Dreadlord Zenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    PvP is the point. Incredible amounts of Mage QQ from 1700 players about how our burst is out of control so blizzard caves and nerfs the shit out of our damage and can't find a way to compensate in PvE. It's long past due for "spell does X damage (Y if used against players)"
    Yeah, but that was the intention of the mastery change. Allowing frost mages to have a nerf in PvP while giving them a substantial boost in PvE.

    So why are we doing less damage in PvE still?

  7. #487
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    I´m clueless as you Zenny. I thought they will fix scaling and frost continues to become a little bit more popular in pve, but we should wait for the next numbers I think.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I´m clueless as you Zenny. I thought they will fix scaling and frost continues to become a little bit more popular in pve, but we should wait for the next numbers I think.
    Exactly this, people (myself included) are jumping too much on the "wtf this is a nerf" train before the actual numbers are balanced. Now if this actually DOES end up being a PVE nerf then I am going to be completely at a loss of words. I haven't much cared for frost as a PVE spec since the removal of deep freeze, but I remain hopeful for you frosties who still do enjoy the spec since it's always nice to have the (viable) choice of a third spec, since not a lot of classes actually have that.

  9. #489
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    Exactly this, people (myself included) are jumping too much on the "wtf this is a nerf" train before the actual numbers are balanced. Now if this actually DOES end up being a PVE nerf then I am going to be completely at a loss of words. I haven't much cared for frost as a PVE spec since the removal of deep freeze, but I remain hopeful for you frosties who still do enjoy the spec since it's always nice to have the (viable) choice of a third spec, since not a lot of classes actually have that.
    I've been Fire this tier only because playing Frost would be like asking my guild to carry me in terms of DPS. I was excited when they announced a Mastery change to make Frost better in PvE, but now, I'm just fucking dumbstruck why they would ever think to nerf it.

    The only thing I can come up with is to buff Frostbolt in some way if instant damage is the issue with PvP. Can't touch bombs because they affect all specs (unless you want to give Frost a passive to only increase bombs on its spec; e.g., Arcane Mastery). Can't touch FFB or IL because they're both instant. Apparently can't touch FB because it becomes too good NOT to use in PvP (which is funny because that was their original goal).

    The only other things I can think of other than Frostbolt is to buff WellyBolt either baseline or a dramatic increase to it alone in Mastery (since players can just kill it?) or to give us a new spell and nerf everything else.

    Regardless, they really screwed the pooch when their new Mastery didn't fix issues in PvP.

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  10. #490
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Show me your guild's parses, Polar.

    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Show me your guild's parses, Polar.

    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.
    Why would you say that?

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Show me your guild's parses, Polar.

    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.
    How can frost trump every other class and still be worse than fire, when fire doesn't trump every other class in damage? Seems like a contradiction.
    Last edited by Sephrie; 2013-08-18 at 10:19 PM.

  13. #493
    They're turning frost into Beastmaster aren't they?

  14. #494
    hoorraayyy.....

    not....

    Mage (Forums, Talent Calculator)
    Frostbolt healing to Water Elemental reduced by 9%.
    Ice Lance damage reduced by 9%.

    Frost
    Frostbolt damage reduced by 9%.
    Mastery: Icicles now stores 16% (was 14%) of the damage done by Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt. Now increases the damage of your Water Elemental's Waterbolt by 16%, up from 14%.

    Let's just nerf frost another 10%

  15. #495
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Show me your guild's parses, Polar.

    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.
    This is unequivocally not the case. It appears to come from a place of frustration and resentment, rather than logic as there is ample data to prove it false.

    Are you saying that given the same expertise with say, a Warlock or Rogue, or Shaman that you, Boxedwaffle, Pete, and others have with Frost, that Frost would still outperform them? I don't buy it.

  16. #496
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Please, keep cool: it's just the same number again.

    Look at Frostbolt, it keep saying +166% sp - 9% = 150%
    Icicle : before 14% after 16%

    Conclusion, it's the third time this change was announced !!!
    The answers is 42
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  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.
    Oh god. You said that because of simulations? Really? Go check raidbots and see where is frost on the actual fights.

  18. #498
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Show me your guild's parses, Polar.

    Fire is better than frost right now, but frost still trumps every other class. So unless you only raid with mages, that's an absurd statement. Or you just suck at frost.
    Bolded part is all that matters, and Fire is super-ahead of Frost.

    I never said I was bad, I just don't want to gimp myself and have others have to make up the difference.

    I also haven't been Frost (in a raid setting) in over 6 weeks, but I probably will be in 5.4 as I refuse to go Arcane unless I absolutely have to (even if it does mean gimping myself. I won't tolerate being forced into Arcane again)


    PS: Frost is definitely NOT better than any other class. The only thing that says that is SimC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    hoorraayyy.....

    not....

    Mage (Forums, Talent Calculator)
    Frostbolt healing to Water Elemental reduced by 9%.
    Ice Lance damage reduced by 9%.

    Frost
    Frostbolt damage reduced by 9%.
    Mastery: Icicles now stores 16% (was 14%) of the damage done by Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt. Now increases the damage of your Water Elemental's Waterbolt by 16%, up from 14%.

    Let's just nerf frost another 10%
    Technically, this info was available a few days ago as chaud already posted it, but it didn't appear on the front-page.

    But yeah, they're going full retard with Frost atm.

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  19. #499
    And we all know...you never go full retard....

    Frost is so...let's just all agree to disagree, and everyone go arcane

  20. #500
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    I just don't react well to Polar's ridiculous sky is always falling approach to making statements.

    Any idiot who has spent time looking at parses, guild's kills, and has done raiding themselves knows frost is weak. But to say that it isn't viable is stupid. You can play it and unless you're in the very top guilds (which nearly all of us aren't), you can be one of the top.

    Polar, I've looked at your guild. We're both 11/13H, and our DPS are roughly similar. We're roughly the same iLvl as a 25M heroic guild. I am able to not just be viable, but be one of the best DPS in the guild. Yes, I could do more as fire, but the results are there with frost too-- even in its weak state. Compare this to Dragon Soul and maybe you can mark this as some sort of step forward.

    If you fix how you play, you could easily be beating nearly everyone in your guild as frost-- if you wanted to. My frost numbers beat your fire numbers across the board.

    I don't understand the recent frost nerfs, they are unwarranted. But even with those, I will still beat fire mages, arcane mages, and other classes. I don't feel threatened by anyone. And yes, I realize it's probably just because I outskill them all. Oh well. Just stop giving in. Stop going fire... it's the only way the devs will listen.

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