1. #1

    Cool-downs and when to drop them

    Ok so coming from a primarily pvp background I recently have really been enjoying the raiding side of things and I've been slowly gearing up my paladin.

    As far as progression goes im nearly at the point where there is very little gear I can get until I step into heroic raids. I've got my rotation down pretty solid and usually more often than not, im on the top of the dps meters for my gear lvl ( unless there is a heroic geared player in the raid )

    The one thing I seem to be lacking is when to drop my cooldowns for maximum dps. Between AW, HA and GOAK I find juggling them all together tricky in between boss pulls and trash, and sometimes find myself caught out in the final burn stages with no CDs to use or using them with still 10 + seconds left after the boss or trash has died.

    Is is better to revolve my CDs around my tricket procs? Is Linking AW with HA always the way to go? Is GOAK for boss only fights? or linked with trinket procs as well? Does GOAK benefit from bloodlust/timewarp eg? Is it better to wait a few more min until a certain point or phase or just drop CDs as they become usable again, maximising their potential?

    Anyone got any advice for certain bosses and when is a good time to 'drop the bass' ? cheers

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  2. #2
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I believe that Sanctified Wrath is always better than Holy Avenger for Ret, but don't quote me as my Ret stuff is lackluster and barely "Just enough" for my needs. I normally pop AW and GAK at the start of the fight (along with prepotting), and then I normally use Wings when it's available again the first time, and save it the second time (if it comes) for when GAK comes off cooldown, since on most fights that's around the burn phase area (However please note that right now the only fight I DPS on is Durumu and I tank the others, so it depends on the time of the fight of course. In a fight like Jin'rokh where he dies really fast it's probably best to wait until the first pool to pop everything, rather than at the start).

    I'm sure I don't manage it correctly though because I don't pay much attention to my trinket procs or things like the GAK buff, which hurts my DPS as I should be saving execution sentence until I'm buffed up to snapshot it.
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  3. #3
    Warning: The following is from a Prot paladin, who knows just enough about Ret to be dangerous:

    SW is slightly ahead of HA, but not mindblowingly. Use whichever you prefer/are better with.

    Syncing of CDs is ALWAYS better than spreading them out. This includes raid-CD's like Lust/Banners (if applicable) especially. While your angel won't attack faster under lust, YOU will get 30% more melee/ability use WITH the STR stacks, for example.

    Usually it's GoAK and SW on pull (or GoAK, wait 10sec, AW/HA) with a pot. Pop ES after GoAK is at max stacks. If you use Feather/Spark or other proc/stack trinkets, try to line up the ES cast with those as well. Then, re-cast AW+HA/SW next time it's up. Can hold the 3rd cast for your 2nd GoAK OR cast 3, and then delay GoAK a bit and line up #4. Pot again there.

    Try to line up these phases with burn phases on the boss and/or Lust, which will mostly overlap if your raid leader has a brain.

    Jin - Do NOT pop CDs on pull (use in first puddle with lust)
    Horri - Pop on pull, then save your big wad (GoAK+pot #2) for last phase. Can work in wings between as long as they're back up
    Council - Depends on strat/assignment, but pull for Sul nuke, then again as available
    Tortos - Pull, again as available
    Meg - Same, save #2 for lust at end
    JiKun - Try to overlap the CDs with getting feed young
    Durumu - Pull, then as available
    Primo - Wait til transformed, obv
    DA - Depends on your strat
    IQ - Pull, then as available. Save #2 for when all dogs are down for lolcleave
    Twins - Pull, then depends on strat (we lust at start of P2, for example)
    LS - Pull, then as available. #2 at start of P3. Don't be a nub and pop CD's near 65/30%
    RaDen - Depends on if you have to go out or not, but pretty much same story.

    I don't know people that use big (2+min) CDs on trash. It's trash...
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I don't know people that use big (2+min) CDs on trash. It's trash...
    Except on Horridon trash!
    BL/Heroism on pull.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Jin - Do NOT pop CDs on pull (use in first puddle with lust)
    On Jin HC, we pop Bloodlust and all CD's on pull. Trinkets/Metagems/prepot all are up straight at pull. Waiting for first pool desyncs these procs. Not to mention during pool people have to run out with the lightning ball, run out to get dispelled, etc... Popping lust on pull while not synced with the extra pool buff, does increase overall raid dps. We use 2 tanks, 2 healers and currently get it to 20% hps before the 1st storm even starts, killing it right after.

    As for when to use CD's in general: On pull, then again as they are ready, unless something else will happen within the next minute that you might want to wait for: lust, other cd's, trinkets, tortos stomp that will interrupt your cd's, lei shen transition, etc..

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohendar View Post
    On Jin HC, we pop Bloodlust and all CD's on pull. Trinkets/Metagems/preport all are up straight at pull. Waiting for first pool desyncs these procs. Not to mention during pool people have to run out with the lightning ball, run out to get dispelled, etc... Popping lust on pull while not synced with the extra pool buff, does increase overall raid dps. We use 2 tanks, 2 healers and currently get it to 20% hps before the 1st storm even starts, killing it right after.

    As for when to use CD's in general: On pull, then again as they are ready, unless something else will happen within the next minute that you might want to wait for: lust, other cd's, trinkets, tortos stomp that will interrupt your cd's, lei shen transition, etc..
    Its better to wait for the first pool on Jin'rokh. A good ret will bubble before the ionization cast goes off and not have to run out at all. You would likely get it down further if you waited for the first puddle. Most guilds that are killing it within the first pool are waiting. And the lightning balls go out before the first pool is dropped as well so don't know why you bring that up.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-08-14 at 02:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Its better to wait for the first pool on Jin'rokh. A good ret will bubble before the ionization cast goes off and not have to run out at all. You would likely get it down further if you waited for the first puddle. Most guilds that are killing it within the first pool are waiting. And the lightning balls go out before the first pool is dropped as well so don't know why you bring that up.
    This is the correct information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  8. #8
    Some great info!. I tried again last night and making some small improvements. I am hitting some high aoe dps with HA on some add intense fights. But I think Its down to knowing the fights better I guess. I used pots as well and that made some noticeable burst difference as well, never bothered with it before ( this is only LFR ) but for heroics im sure ill have to use them more often

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