Heroic Lei Shen

[Darkanarchist]

My guild is starting heroic lei shen this week
so far for this tier i have been playing unholy(because i have heroic feather and heroic primordius's talisman of rage)
but was wondering if its worth going DW frost for H Lei shen
i realize unholy>frost but i have 2x543 1h in my bag and a 530 2h (not a single TF or hc 2h wep has dropped for my raid group) and was wondering if the weps and the needed AoE burst for the diffused lightning would make DW worth it?

[Yuna]

Depends on 10 or 25 raid situation, adds are spawned in smallest packs possible (spread out for diffusion chain, have some ranged outside for ball lightnings), usually die in cleave and you focus steadily on lei shen to keep p1 and p2 short. Hope that helps

[Darkanarchist]

10man so i guess there are not that many...so would unholy still out preform DW with 13 ilvl higher weps and occasional free cleave?

[Deleted]

I killed LS as DW (double 549) while having in my bags normal tf Uroe (528, no upgrades) and did really great at that time (was west ranked 4 but that's 6 weeks ago and didn't play frost since).
That was 25 man, with 3 locks for overkill demo ball decimation. Tbh at best i could do 2 HB before they all died. Am now UH and i still at best can do 2 blood boils because they are annihilated by demonform locks...

[Skarssen]

I'm 10man as well. After I grip them in and 2 HBs the sparks are dead, so I don't think there would be much benefit for DW unless your group has really poor burst AOE. But if that is the case you are probably going to have trouble.

[Nillo]

Since when does the weapon level matter for Unholy o0. As long as you have the feather you're probably better off playing Unholy on Lei Shen.

[Maxweii]

My guild started Lei Shen heroic a bit ago (25) and we have 3 dk's whom usually get in group, 2 Unholy and 1 Frost. While the Frost dk usually has initial better burst for P1 we destroy him in P2, he just can't keep up with our aoe. Overall he's switching back, and I would def say Unholy is better for sure

[Darkanarchist]

Since when does the weapon level matter for Unholy o0. As long as you have the feather you're probably better off playing Unholy on Lei Shen.

I realise for unholy, your Weapon damage doesnt increase disease damage by much(str on the wep :P) but simcrafting Festerlblight does show that weapon dps still holds a 4.03 weighting(for my gear) which is less than str but more than haste

My guild started Lei Shen heroic a bit ago (25) and we have 3 dk's whom usually get in group, 2 Unholy and 1 Frost. While the Frost dk usually has initial better burst for P1 we destroy him in P2, he just can't keep up with our aoe. Overall he's switching back, and I would def say Unholy is better for sure

do your unholy dks have worse weapons than your frost dk?

[Deleted]

I wonder how a frost dk destroys UH burst on pull especially with gargoyle and UF O_o.
I think i maintain 300+k until first intermission (no hero) and i've never came even close as DW on the kill 6 weeks ago (and considering my rank, my double 549's and weapon scaling as frost no way u do the same).
Btw u don't take UH dks on lei shen for aoe purposes (hell am nearly sure with same gear in a window of 5 sec a DW dk will destroy any UH dk on ball dmg since deseases dont even tick twice), if adds live long enough there's an issue, no matter the type of add (harnessed power/ball shit/diffuse).

[Mitra]

weapon damage does count on leishen off course, feather counts more, but since your festering strike, scourge strike (you do use it playing festerblight), auto attacks, soul reaper (that burn fase is quite agressive) are weapon based... imo.
at the end unholy is parsing way better, frost is kind bellow the average level, just go unholy, your deaseases will be between like 30 and 40% of your damage, while the boss is running your deseases will tick and you can have more controll on the adds if you need that extra damage make sure the boss goes to the transmission with deseases ticking for at least more 1:10 min so you have time to dont let them fall.

you may have better weapons @ frost, but dont expect them to take your damage to unholy levels, as people is saying in the reply's

[Frozendekay]

Unholy is all about making p3 as short as possible. IMO for a first kill you want to extend diseases as long as possible in p2 (1:30+) then you can just focus on SS/SR in p3 and wreck everyone on boss dmg at that point. Frost won't do nearly as much burst in p1 or boss dmg in p3, it just brings AoE which isnt important for 10m (unholy might actually be better for balls cos they jump all around in 10m).

[Deleted]

How come AoE is not supposed to be important for 10m? (genuine question, 25m only here)

Also I did 218k dps last night as DW Frost in 25hc, this would have been world #5 as unholy.

[Deleted]

According to your logs you use two locks, with only one being demo (and the other having 10% less total activity than top 5 while still being alive) that explains why you can do as much AoE dmg (586 HBs that's just about double of what i did on my first and only kill as DW 6 weeks ago lol for a kill that took 1 min more). This is one the reasons logs needs to be put into situations and into raid tactics.
No pun intended explaining for people that would not understand how u can achieve those numbers.
The moment u can't squeeze aoe due to either tactic or single target u see how weak DW is, just look at Ra den (or any heavy ST boss) logs from both frost dks.
Very encouraging numbers as frost tho', am 2 cm from respeccing to have fun too !!

For 10 man, according to our 10 man alt raid, there's like 3 balls so aoe is important but nothing major...

[Deleted]

I do know why I get my rankings, but I am also under the impression that other ranked players must have had kills with similar setups/situations. Poochie (warlock) is an alt we only use for Lei Shen because we just can't find another main warlock but need a second one for the portals. On Ra-den I was offtank (standing oor in blood presence with the adds during the whole p1), on Ji'kun and Dark Animus I am blood specced 2nd/3rd tank.

Also I'm having the time of my life with DW atm, never had this much fun in WoW before (maybe except ICC, also as DW).

@OP: 3 Ball Lightnings sounds like a joke, go unholy if you play both at the same skill level.

[Skarssen]

My 10 man group has a lock, fire mage and ele shaman, so as I said I get GG off followed by 2 HBs and the ball lightnings are dead. It just doesn't matter for my group.

[Deleted]

Are you guys using roiling blood for Lei Shen?

[Deleted]

Unless you wanna pestilence then BB and basically don't do anything to those balls because at the end of those 2 GCDs they are mostly dead, yes do so.
Now to be more precise (before people point it out) it depends also on raid comp, we run a 3 locks comp (we don't use the portal bug) i don't even stand a chance to "leech" too much. So if i dont glyph RB i might aswell just focus on the boss only.

You've got an example few posts above of a dk using an average (burst) aoe setup where you get the chance to throw in more aoe's. In this situation and as UH (because as DW or 2H frost it's easy) i got no clue of what's the best since i trained with RB and our setup never changed.

ps : 25 man.

[Deleted]

Padding? What? The adds are going to rip you a new one if you can't kill them in time.

[Deleted]

I have to admit that I'm very focused on DW (where you don't lose any single target damage during short burst phases) and 25h (8+ adds that have to die within 4-5 seconds).

To say that add dmg is pure padding in 10hc still implies though that the op's raid comp has enough classes that can aoe the adds down fast enough which might not always be the case.

[Vereesa]

I have to admit that I'm very focused on DW (where you don't lose any single target damage during short burst phases) and 25h (8+ adds that have to die within 4-5 seconds).

To say that add dmg is pure padding in 10hc still implies though that the op's raid comp has enough classes that can aoe the adds down fast enough which might not always be the case.

10-man is very different in regards to Ball Lightnings since only 3 (4 on rare occasions) spawn. Not only are there not enough targets to 'AoE down', but very few 10-mans have 2 DKs and 2 reliable AoE stunners so the Balls usually hang around for more than a while, which is made possible by being able to spread fairly freely. They'll usually die to Warrior Cleave/DoTs/Chain Lightning over several seconds.

As for padding, that obviously depends on your spec. DW is of course the epitome of a non-padder due to Howling Blast, but most 25-man raids have ample AoErs anyway which means DKs are usually better off just going UH for the single-target damage boost.