That would be so much like warrirorish then.
I feel like CHillblains is by far the best talent for pvp right now. For me it's Chillblains > DA > Asphyxiate. I would probably take Death's Advance or Desecration if they made CHillblains a Frost passive skill.3) Desecration is underpowered in that tier for unholy since unholy doesn't use Festering Strike much in PVP, make triggering spells NS,FS,SS (i have no idea about blood). Also i'm not sure about frost if it will ever think about taking Desecration since they will already have Chillbains? And biggest problem for this tier in general is Strangulate is EXTREMELY weak compared to Asphyxiate so Asphyxiate will always dominate this tier. What do they have to do is lowering CD of strangulate to 30 sec, remove rune cost, and reduce its duration to 4 sec. 5 sec stun > 4 sec silence
I guess you are not playing arenas then? Cuz i haven't seen any DK above 2k rating using anything other than asphyxiate. For RBGs, yes chillbains is better choice than Asphyxiate.
Good News everyone! /sarcasm off.
So they now change rppm mechanic proccrates only to only increase with haste if the proc itself does not interact with haste in anyway (so basically flat dmg and no statproccs) which means that ALL current and new rppm trinkets are affected.
Although they say they will increase the basic proc chance of affected proccs it is a huge nerf as we currently rely on our rppm trinkets.
So the change to uh pres is a farce, a 20 haste buff to garg is all thats left and bl and uh frenzy are greatly diminished in effectivity as they previously increased rppm proc chances.
The ultimate reason for this is bringing rppm trinkets in line with normal icd trinkets and currently those non rppm trinkets are really really weak for us as their proccs have ridiculously low uptime and the stronger passive effect can't make up for it.
Feather is currently far superior to the 4 non rppm trinkets next patch and is especially because of festerblight even superior to their respective heroic versions or at least on par.
Even for non haste users is this a huge downgrade compared to normal because of our highly increased proc chances comapred to other classes.
Additional our hast scalign dps wise gets a huge downgrade pushing our mediocre (uh) and really bad (frost) stat scaling even more down, resulting in less gain form additional gear.
While i normally try to stay optimistic this basically obliterates our left competitiveness and is likely to destroy festerblight completely which the possible exception of pure patchwerk encounters if the increased base proc chances are high enough to keep the feather in a overly good state.
All in all we will now need really remarkable buffs, possibly in the direction of about 20-30% as our setboni are shit,we are being carried by "overpowered" trinkets currently and our sclaing takes even more damage from this rppm change/nerf.
Although this number is given that blizz plans to balance meeles and casters alike unlike this content where mages ar ahead 25-30% of every competitive melee with the exception of rogue.
Yeah that definetly made my day, hope that the class tunings begin soon.
As I mentioned in the post, 2H Frost needs to want Mastery more than it does right now. Something would have to change.
Unholy already gets a discount on DC, we would just be baking it into UP for the same reason that FS is discounted in FP.
The main idea is having a PvP Presence that all of the other presences are balanced around. I think it's doable and worth the effort.
Yes indeed. 2h frost needs to focus more on Frost damage (Frost Strike mainly, and some Howling Blast), and less on Obliterate.As I mentioned in the post, 2H Frost needs to want Mastery more than it does right now. Something would have to change.
Remove this stupid MOP 2h frost playstyle already. Screw the 1-skill playstyle, Obliterate and all about MOP 2h frost!
"I have it all simmed."
Yeah every spec loses dps of course, but it impacts us the most, not only because feather carries us, but further more we get much more out of rppm trinkets than other classes because of UH pres and runic corruption increasing rppm procs, furthermore increases unholy frenzy rppm even so, not any class has a haste cd.
RC gets fixed either way, but thats already a hard hit which needs a dmg buff on its own. Additionally this change is likely to break festerblight which probably wouldn't have been the case without the chnage, because before feather would have been BiS atleast until the very end of the content with 580 trinkets or alteast on par with them.
The feather granted us a new playstyle which brought us up where we are now and rppm interacted fairly well with us although thorugh a bug. Its currently on par with a core mechnaic and that gets broken with this change.
There will be buffs but i doubt they'll grant us much as it can easily break pvp as our dmg there is already strong and the gear scaling issue barely exists in pvp.
Gear won't bring us up anywhere, our setboni won't help us and no trinkets can do that either.
Blizz was never really good on tuning the dk and i doubt they'll have a masterplan this time. I will see, maybe they surprise me but that sounded pretty much like a deathsentence for us.
I really don't like being a doomsayer nor an advocate for the worst but with these recent bombshells I really can't see Death Knights coming out as the winners. Even before the bug fix we were in the middle dps-wise. They did/will compensate with the UH true haste thing, yet Frost hasn't had a single change. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the trinket change will affect haste, and with that we'll have an almost abysmal scaling. DW frost is affected the least I suppose, but from what I've heard from the PTR things aren't exactly good as it is.
That's no fun. All stats equally bad now? There's going to have to be some serious number tuning or something..
Oh, and watch out for the next expac Beta feedback thread for DK's. I really don't want us to get somewhat ignored again, so I'll make one ASAP when it goes up.
Also grats to Magdelena for getting an item named after them!
Last edited by Riven; 2013-08-02 at 03:33 AM.
Edit: Also wanted to say that number changes for 5.4 are coming. Patience folks. Remember that a lot of what they're basing this on is current Siege testing, which is why I've emphasised the importance of taking logs when testing encounters. We've only just concluded 10N testing, and there's a heck of a lot to come.
Keep calm and keep logging.
New talent grid:
- Roling Blood has been removed. Pestilence is the way to spread diseases. MoP made it too easy to spread diseases. I want to replace Unhoyl Blight as well, but i can't think of any replacements for it.
- Chillblains has been removed from talents and is now a frost passive. Old Desecration has taken it's place.
- Blood tap has been removed. Runic Empowerement is now a blood and frost passive once again. Runic Corruption is an unholy passive. (maybe?)
- Replaced Tier 5 with DPS CD's.
- New Presences:
Death presence: New tank presence. Mostly like what blood is now.
Blood presence: Increases auto-attack damage and critical chance.
The new tank spec. Blood (current) has been split into 2 talent trees. Blood is now dps while Dark Guardian is the tank spec.
Design Idea: A dark guardian who manipulates and corrupts life energy to sustain himself in the face of an enemy onslaught. (current description of blood. Fit's it's new name). The spec is a combination of the current blood spec and a more warlock-like DK.
- Death Strike (unholy and frost rune) same as now. Converts runes into detah runes.
- Dark Strike (death rune) deals shadow damage.
- Life Siphon (runic Power): Deals 1850 to 2150 Shadow damage to an enemy target, healing the caster for 100% of the damage dealt.
- Harvest life (Mastery): your Rune Strike and Life Siphon now steals life from the enemy, placing an absorbing shield on you, absorbing x% of the damage dealt.
- Bone Shield: same as now
- Death and Decay: same as now
- Soul Shriek: Deals x Shadow damage to all enemies in a 15 yard cone in front of the caster, silencing them for 5 sec.
The "new" dps spec. Blood (current) has been split into 2 talent trees. Blood is now dps while Dark Guardian is the tank spec.
Mostly the same as in Wotlk. healing has been greatly reduced.
design idea: Much like what 2h frost is now, a hard hitting death king dealing physical damage primary. Some new skills has been added. Some (from Wotlk has not been brought back) . Deals heavy damage on auto-attack as well. Doesn't docus much on diseases.
- Heart Strike is now the Death Strike of it's time (double-rune damage skill. No longer heals). Hart hitting skill (like Obliterate is now)
- Blood Strike is now the aoe-strike (cleave), aoe-part of it is now granted through a passive skill, learned at level x.
- Rune Strike: same as now, damage increased. Make it more fun in a way, more unique.
- New passive skil, Armor Piercing: When you use Heart Strike you have a chance to grant armor piercing, causes you to ignore 50% armor for 5 sec.
- Death Coil: same as now, + a passive skill to increase it's damage (a little more ranged capabilities).
- Dancing Rune Weapon: same as now
- Empowered Rune-weapon: Increases melee damage by x and reduces the coldown of Dancing Rune Weapon by x%.
MOP changed frost in a bad way. It made 2h and DW play differently, resulting in 2h becomming a 1-skill spec while DW becomming a Howling Blast spammer. Neither of these are good and there has to be a balance between. Howling Blast shouldn't be the main rune-skill, but should be a viable option to Obliterate, dealing great ranged damage. OIbliterate should be the rune-skill to use at melee-range, but shouldn't be as dominant as it is for 2h frost right now. Frost should be more about dealing frost damage, more than 2h is now, and less than DW is now. Less Obliterate and more frost damage for 2h, more Obliterate and less frost damage for DW. A balance between what 2h and DW is like now. Frost should be based around Frost damage, with Obliterate as a strong secondary skill, primary used to build runic power for Frost Strike, and granting the Rime Proc. Frost relies too much on procs as well at the moment, so i'm trying to find a solution to this as well.
- Might of the Frozen Wastes has been Removed
- Obliterate damage has been increased from 230% (current) to 260% weapon damage. (to make it better than Howling Blast without Rime proc, and better in melee range)
- Frost Strike damage bonus from Threat of Thassarian has been removed
- All melee-skills now hits with off-hand while dual wielding (DW viability)
- Frost Strike damage has been increased from 105% to 155% weapon damage (more frost damage)
- New passive skill: Razorice. Same as glyph, but now works with 2h as well. (more Frost Damage)
- Rime now increases all Frost damage by 20% for your next Howling Blast or Icy Touch (more frost-damage based, Cinderglacier)
- Killing Machine now increases critical strike chance of your 2 next Obliterate and Frost Strike by 50% (less random)
- Unholy Frenzy has been removed (due to new dps-tier).
More to come...
Please, give me feedback, all constructive criticism is welcome. Tell me what you think of it and what you'd like to change. Some of these changes are probably dumb or OP.
Last edited by Wrien; 2013-08-03 at 09:24 PM.
I want old bloodboil back
Old BB had no animation other than you "shouting" and the targets erupting. Then they decided to visualize it and gave it the giant blood fog animation that caused targeting issues for everyone but the DK himself and performance issues for a lot of people. Hence it was replaced by the current one.
[For example passive] : Every 5th Heartstrike has a 50% chance to ignore 100% of targets armor.
- - - Updated - - -
And yes the v1 sucked even more than the current one.
Last edited by Glaziola; 2013-08-03 at 09:20 PM. Reason: fixed typos
I feel very strongly that Rolling Blood should be made baseline and Pestilence removed from the game along with the rest of our first tier of talents. We only have 6 tiers and those talents are taking up precious space.
Do you mean make the Chilblains "slow" passive for Frost or both the slow and the "root"? If both, then that would be a huge advantage for Frost. Personally, I would like to see the Chilblains "slow" made into a glyph available for all specs. They can do what they want with the "root". Delete it or put it back in the grid.
Man, I want to play RC with Frost all the time. I'm being spoiled right now with this bug in place. I think the T75 talents have to stay (unless they completely change the rune system). But, they obviously need to be moved to at least T60 for leveling purposes. And after they fix this latest bug, they need to slightly increase the proc time of RC so that it can compete with RE/BT.
I'm not so sure you can tie the healing abilities/shield to runic power in such a way. AMS soaking for example would be problematic. Also, let's not dump the generic sounding Rune Strike onto another spec. I would argue that Death Coil is our best looking ability and I think it would be nice to have another spec use it and more often than Unholy.
I like the idea of Heart Strike being the featured strike for Blood again. Maybe the armor penetration bit could be used in some way for their spec-specific Mastery. That would be fitting.
I think that Frost would still do too much physical damage (Obliterate) and not enough frost damage. This wrecks our Mastery and would make Frost and Blood dps too similar in design. I like the idea of Rime increasing the damage of whatever you use (HB/IT); I think that could be even higher (50%)? Soul Reaper changed to shadowfrost damage is another place to look. Some other passive like old Necrosis would be another way to increase frost damage without breaking anything.
If we get a fourth spec, I'd be a lot more thrilled for a 2nd tank spec that is not based on the Blood Shield/Death Strike. Hell, this could even be the DW tanking spec people long for. Have it's mastery grant avoidance (on a different DR) to gain some off the "spectral blade dancer" feeling and I'd be sold. Attacks are a mix of weapon attacks and frost and unholy speciuals empowered by avoidance (like how fury is empowered by crit). And these specials grant either a short term high avoidance buff or a damage bonus. The short term cool down (blood shield, DRW) would be a ghostly minionin that haunts the enemy. AoE still has the basic diseases/pestilence/DnD that makes the signature of DKs but Blood Boil would be replaced by Haunting Shadows (shadow damage and 4s buff to damage taken) and Icy Stalagmites (frost damage and mini-root with a 4s cool down on the effect).
But since none of that is ever going to happen, that's that.