1. #1

    [Balance] Next haste cap after 10289?

    As the title states can anyone tell me the next haste break point for moonkin?

    And also has anyone tried reaching the cap and the results?

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2

  3. #3
    After 10289 haste, haste is dramatically devalued. Need to dump any excess into crit, and if you've reached the point where it can't be dumped into anything else but mastery, go for it. Mastery will yield a slight dps boost at said point in gear levels.

    If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.
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  4. #4
    10296, actually. GCD cap with NG.
    With current gear mastery and haste are a wash once you've got the 10,3k, so if you can't reforge to crit, do whatever.

  5. #5
    What Huth said pretty much

    What you need to understand is that up until the 10296 haste point, haste is valued highly, especially on single target. After this point we are at the GCD cap, which means that more haste doesnt benefit our entire playstyle, and stacking too much will actually cause wrath clipping.

    After the 10296 break point, 2x Crit > Int, 2x Haste < Int, 2x Mastery < Int

    This means its less dps gain to attempt to hit the next break point. You want to achieve the highest crit possible really.

    In answer to your second part, i doubt anyone ingame has tried reaching the BP, but its easy to check it on wrathcalcs and simcraft, and in current gear we lose too much crit, and since crit is the strongest stat, it wont be a gain.

    I hope that clears things up abit, and if you have more questions just ask away or message me and i will try to point you in the right place.

    Also i thought i might add, that with the Legendary Meta gem we have we actually hit the 15318 bp often, and with both meta and NG up we hit even the 35527 bp. So its really pointless to stack anymore haste because of these procs, you are just wasting the stats.
    Last edited by Ragingblaze; 2013-07-18 at 11:05 PM.

  6. #6
    I tested it last and this iD and my personal conclusion is: on heavy movement its a maginal dps loss. On fights like megaera and twins its a about equal to the crit-build. I agree, on paper its a huge difference but practical spoken there is to much variance through trinkets so that I cant see a difference at all.

    Stick with crit after 10,3k if you want to go the safe way.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    I tested it last and this iD and my personal conclusion is: on heavy movement its a maginal dps loss. On fights like megaera and twins its a about equal to the crit-build. I agree, on paper its a huge difference but practical spoken there is to much variance through trinkets so that I cant see a difference at all.

    Stick with crit after 10,3k if you want to go the safe way.
    Sorry you tested what? can you be abit more specific, because there is no way you could have tested the 15318 haste break point and found the dps difference only marginal. As i explained at the bottom of my post, we already hit these break points all the time with NG and meta procs, so increasing your haste is a huge waste of stats.

  8. #8
    Even after the GCD cap haste is only a partial waste of stats. It still affects your RPPM rate and other things.

    Blizzard has been really good about stats not being a complete waste anymore.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    Sorry you tested what? can you be abit more specific, because there is no way you could have tested the 15318 haste break point and found the dps difference only marginal. As i explained at the bottom of my post, we already hit these break points all the time with NG and meta procs, so increasing your haste is a huge waste of stats.
    Yeah, ofc i can go a bit into detail: we are by no means a professional guild only 9/13 Hcs so far - so handle my experience with care :-)

    My char is Whitestrife on EU-Aszhara. With 541 itemlvl it took me around 7-8% crit to get to the 15,4k hastepoint. The practice with this point is not a complete dmg waste as you suggest on your Contribution before. With NG and Meta running my Wrath runs with 0,93. Thats a maginal waste. But more important for me is a 1,26 starfire with NG+Meta :-) with starting pre-lunar thats a huge dmg-gain. When we start with bloodlust (council or durumu) its 1,00 (something around it) starfire with all 3 haste buffs up. Starting pre-lunar is a must with so much haste to get the most out of it.

    I get something around 180k with crit and the second haste-breakpoint on megaera hc (which you cant fake the dmg a lot - double dotting both heads for ss-procs) and also 180k with the third haste-breakpoint. World of logs says thats around 85% of the ranking limit to the 150 best owl-ranks. Knowing my bad gameplay I am fine with something like that :-)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...4py2/rankinfo/

  10. #10
    I did an analysis of dps at higher haste breakpoints using the BIS kit in WrathCalcs.

    The BIS kit has 10402 haste and 16687 crit.

    I used WrathCalcs to calculate the dps of a toon using this kit with haste levels from 10,000 to 16,000, keeping haste + crit = 27089. I set SS wastage to 20%.

    Here are the results using Incarnation: i.imgur.com/R5GGh2j.png

    Here are the results using FoN: i.imgur.com/KhHNW3p.png

    With Incarnation, the 10289 breakpoint (the 11th tick of Moonfire with NG) is clearly the place to be. After the NG GCD floor at 10296, the value of haste relative to crit drops off precipitously. There are slight rebounds at 13584 (the 15th tick of Moonfire with NG + meta) and at 15318 (the 12th tick of Moonfire with NG), but they aren't enough to compensate for the dps loss from trading so much crit for haste.

    With FoN, 10289 gives a slight jump (from the 11th tick of Moonfire with NG) then there is another jump at 10296 which comes from the 9th cast of FoN with NG. There is another jump at 11649 which comes from getting a 12th cast of FoN with NG + meta. The later 13584 and 15318 breakpoints are still not worth it.

    By changing a few crit gems to haste gems in the BIS set, I can meet the 11649 FoN breakpoint and the BIS WrathCalcs dps goes up by 263 (from 246952 to 247215).

    It's not clear how reliable the FoN results are though, given how it is currently implemented in WrathCalcs. Even if you always use your FoN during NG + meta, the meta proc will usually wear off before the treant is finished, so you probably won't get that 12th cast.

    In any case: it is certainly always worth it to go for 10296 to get the NG Moonfire breakpoint at 10289 and the NG FoN breakpoint (and GCD floor) at 10296 and it is not worth it to go for the 13584 or 15318 breakpoints.

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