Philly Gentrification- I must be missing something.

[Kapadons]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...ransition.html


Cliffnotes of the article; White and Asian professionals are moving into a historically predominately black neighborhood which is making property values skyrocket which is causing the blacks to be outraged due to higher property taxes.


The article contains this little nugget - " The market value of some of those $27,000 homes is now listed between $223,000 and $230,000."

So if someones home is worth nearly 10 times what it was before and they had to do nothing for it to be that way, why are they pissed about it? Shouldn't they be happy that they can sell their home for a small fortune? I have to be missing something here. Please inform.



Completely off topic- seems the whites can't really win at this particular area. People are pissed at "white flight" and it causing declining property values and declining tax rolls. People are pissed at whites for segregating others from their community. And now people are pissed at whites for moving into a down-trodden neighborhood and causing it to flourish and increase property values and thus increase tax rolls.

Not really saying the whites have it bad but is there ever any situation that people would be happy with?

[obdigore]

Most likely because property taxes are based on the value of the property as assessed by the government, so these people who owned 27k homes can't pay their new property taxes that are 10 times higher?

[Skyduke]

No, whites cannot win. That is nothing new.

As to that article, the people are pissed for two reasons.

1. Not home value, but rent prices. If you rent an appartment and suddenly what you have to pay skyrockets, you need to move out. For people who have lived all their lives there, that is a hard prospect.

2. The types of businesses and the prices of these businesses will obviously evolve upwards. Whole foods/Starbucks etc... are for a very specific and rather wealthy demographic class. If you are poor and black you have no use for them.

Personally... We live in free countries. You are free to go where you want and buy property wherever. Money talks, bullshit walks. That has always been the way of things, and to be honest, seeing neighbourhoods restored because whites and asians move in is a good thing in my mind.

NB that this is not just an american issue. East Berlin has poor white people living in what used to be East Berlin now having to move because now that Berlin has steadily become more and more trendy those neighbourhoods have some hot property that is being redeveloped. So not so much a racial issue as much as an economic one in my eyes.

[Kapadons]

Most likely because property taxes are based on the value of the property as assessed by the government, so these people who owned 27k homes can't pay their new property taxes that are 10 times higher?

Couldn't they just sell the home for a huge profit? Hell even if it took years to sell it's not like the government would do anything but place a tax lien on it. Which would be paid for out of the sell of the home. Still a huge profit. And judging from the article it seems that the property is in demand.


Edit- Perhaps I am too much of a business man to see the emotional aspect of a home. If my house was worth 10x what it was a year ago, even if I built it with my own hands, I would see it as a golden opportunity to cash out.

[obdigore]

Couldn't they just sell the home for a huge profit? Hell even if it took years to sell it's not like the government would do anything but place a tax lien on it. Which would be paid for out of the sell of the home. Still a huge profit. And judging from the article it seems that the property is in demand.

What if they don't want to move? What if they have lived there their whole lives? What if they can't find a new place and have to start renting. And taxes are kind of due at specific times, homes don't always sell right away.

[Mormolyce]

No, whites cannot win. That is nothing new.

The hell you talking about? We won the world like 5,000 years ago and never lost it.

[Kapadons]

The hell you talking about? We won the world like 5,000 years ago and never lost it.

I read this comment 6 times and it made me laugh every time. Bravo good sir.

- - - Updated - - -

This may be part of it as well.


"Philadelphia has traditionally low-balled their appraisal of properties for tax purposes, with most properties being assessed for at most 50% of actual market value. The city is switching over to a system where the assessments are going to be much closer to actual market value."

Seems that the city changed it's tax appraisal in addition to the gentrification of the neighborhood. So those people are hit with a double whammy. Philly is now working on legislature to ease that transition for certain people.

[Orcbert]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...ransition.html


Cliffnotes of the article; White and Asian professionals are moving into a historically predominately black neighborhood which is making property values skyrocket which is causing the blacks to be outraged due to higher property taxes.


The article contains this little nugget - " The market value of some of those $27,000 homes is now listed between $223,000 and $230,000."

So if someones home is worth nearly 10 times what it was before and they had to do nothing for it to be that way, why are they pissed about it? Shouldn't they be happy that they can sell their home for a small fortune? I have to be missing something here. Please inform.



Completely off topic- seems the whites can't really win at this particular area. People are pissed at "white flight" and it causing declining property values and declining tax rolls. People are pissed at whites for segregating others from their community. And now people are pissed at whites for moving into a down-trodden neighborhood and causing it to flourish and increase property values and thus increase tax rolls.

Not really saying the whites have it bad but is there ever any situation that people would be happy with?

When I lived in Columbus OH this happened. It was a weird standoff. An older district of town was German Village. It was predominantly black and was known as a run down part of town. Oddly enough the gay population of Columbus fell in love with the old houses and really cleaned the place up. Soon it became a hip young neighborhood.

Property taxes went up and those who lived there for years in poverty found it was now not in their budget anymore. The established gay community was working for further improvements such as cleaning up the local parks and adding more touristy shops and cafes but were being fought tooth and nail by the black community who feared it would keep raising their property taxes. Then I moved, never got to see how that ended.

*to those asking why they don't just sell: If your family lived in the same house for 60 years you are attached to it. Basically you can sell it for a quick profit but wind up moving to the new ghetto because you don't have sustainable income to really move up.

[Kapadons]

When I lived in Columbus OH this happened. It was a weird standoff. An older district of town was German Village. It was predominantly black and was known as a run down part of town. Oddly enough the gay population of Columbus fell in love with the old houses and really cleaned the place up. Soon it became a hip young neighborhood.

Property taxes went up and those who lived there for years in poverty found it was now not in their budget anymore. The established gay community was working for further improvements such as cleaning up the local parks and adding more touristy shops and cafes but were being fought tooth and nail by the black community who feared it would keep raising their property taxes. Then I moved, never got to see how that ended.

*to those asking why they don't just sell: If your family lived in the same house for 60 years you are attached to it. Basically you can sell it for a quick profit but wind up moving to the new ghetto because you don't have sustainable income to really move up.

Liberals worst nightmare - two minority groups against each other.


But weren't they ok living in the "ghetto" before if they lived there for 60 years? What's the difference between one ghetto and another?

[Orcbert]

Liberals worst nightmare - two minority groups against each other.


But weren't they ok living in the "ghetto" before if they lived there for 60 years? What's the difference between one ghetto and another?

Familiarity. Also the entire city was on the rise so there were fewer options that were close to the actual city.

[OzoAndIndi]

Well, truth be told, whites aside, some of Philly also has some Black and Asian racial tensions as it is which may not help it either.

[Deleted]

I am vastly unfamiliar with taxes in America...

Are the taxes on the primary residence that big that people actually have to move out from their houses because they have increased their value?
Wow...
This is going to sound anti-american, but taxing that heavily the primary residence sounds like a terrible idea to me: not only you have to spend a lot of effort in order to be able to buy it, you have to also be in a salary bracket that allows you to pay the taxes. So: poor people cannot get nice houses, no matter how much they save through their effort.

[obdigore]

I am vastly unfamiliar with taxes in America...

Are the taxes on the primary residence that big that people actually have to move out from their houses because they have increased their value?
Wow...
This is going to sound anti-american, but taxing that heavily the primary residence sounds like a terrible idea to me: not only you have to spend a lot of effort in order to be able to buy it, you have to also be in a salary bracket that allows you to pay the taxes. So: poor people cannot get nice houses, no matter how much they save through their effort.

You can get nice homes, you can't get homes that increase in worth 10-fold, which would make your less yearly property tax increase 10-fold as well. If there isn't a change in your income... well lets do some math. Lets say Philly Residential Property Taxes are 1% of total value. I don't think they are that high, but its a big easy round number

27,000 at 1% is 270$ a year.
250,000 at 1% is 2500 a year. That is a huge change for a family making 20k or less a year.

[Kalyyn]

Wouldn't be an issue if property taxes weren't so ridiculous.

[Fahrenheit]

"If they go with the $335,000 figure, my taxes will jump to $4,000, [from $800 last year]," said Lee.

Man, I'd give my left nut to pay even $4k in taxes for the year, let alone $800. My home is worth about 335k and my taxes are just over 10k a year.

NJ, you crazy.

[Spl4sh3r]

I don't get why property values are based on those that live in them. Of course if people trash the place it should be lower, but if it doesn't take any damage why should the price change at all? The only reason I see property values should change is if they build something new in the area.

[Deleted]

If you want to clean up an area gentrification (however much I disagree with it since it just displaces the problem rather than the cause) is a good way to do it. Look at Shoreditch in London. It was a proper shithole, you'd walk about expecting to be shouted at/threatened/beaten up. Now its full of all the yuppies that moved in, its a different place.

[Reeve]

Because it's not always about profit. They might just simply want to live there, and the skyrocketing property values are forcing them out through the tax. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all, but different people have different motivations.

[Zoranon]

This is the principal reason why property taxes should not be derived from market value of the building in question. It is perverse that you get punished by being taxed more if you actually take good care of your property.

[Deleted]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...ransition.html
So if someones home is worth nearly 10 times what it was before and they had to do nothing for it to be that way, why are they pissed about it? Shouldn't they be happy that they can sell their home for a small fortune? I have to be missing something here. Please inform.

Property taxes increase with property value (although I don't think linearly) so they probably have to pay at least 2-3 times as much independant of the condition of their homes.

The two issues people probably have is that

a) They don't want to move even though they could get a lot of money for their homes.
b) They couldn't sell the house even if they wanted to.

It is important to note that while mostly 'location' (as in neighborhood average) is taken into account for property tax the exact codition of the house is obviously important if you want to actually sell that property thus the actual sale value most likely didn't increase 10 fold.