Disc Vs Holy

[Nightstorm]

Post a thread about disc and it will grow 7-9+ pages long, post a thread about Holy and you might get a second page. Holy priest representation is still stupid low and the ones I see in lfr and extremely bad and miss informed. They go oom in and sit there. When blizzard was asked about Holy priest staggering .6% representation in 4 heroic bosses or more in pve or 2200+ in pvp they said, they numbers are coming up. The truth is the holy priests you see are casuals and RPers that spec holy for novelty and get Holy nova glyph. My point is blizzard is not making drastic enough changes to attract people back to holy. Don't make it disc but increase mana regen by 10% or something. I don't like to see disc nerfed anymore than anyone else but holy gets the short bus.

[hikamiro]

are you just venting?

[Auxis]

Aren't Feral's in basically the same position when compared to rogues?

Get over it. All specs have good and bad expansions.

[TirielWoW]

Post a thread about disc and it will grow 7-9+ pages long, post a thread about Holy and you might get a second page. Holy priest representation is still stupid low and the ones I see in lfr and extremely bad and miss informed. They go oom in and sit there. When blizzard was asked about Holy priest staggering .6% representation in 4 heroic bosses or more in pve or 2200+ in pvp they said, they numbers are coming up. The truth is the holy priests you see are casuals and RPers that spec holy for novelty and get Holy nova glyph. My point is blizzard is not making drastic enough changes to attract people back to holy. Don't make it disc but increase mana regen by 10% or something. I don't like to see disc nerfed anymore than anyone else but holy gets the short bus.

I'm glad to know that I'm both a casual and an RPer. At least you got one of those right.

But I am highly offended that you are accusing me of getting the Holy Nova glyph! THIS WILL NOT STAND!

[Seiken3]

I recently maxed out a priest myself and went Holy. I see what you mean as most of the priests I meet are either shadow or disc. I'm not new in the terms of healing as a holy priest, in fact, I was quite adept in Cata, but this time around, I feel like there's something missing...

[TirielWoW]

I recently maxed out a priest myself and went Holy. I see what you mean as most of the priests I meet are either shadow or disc. I'm not new in the terms of healing as a holy priest, in fact, I was quite adept in Cata, but this time around, I feel like there's something missing...

Assuming you're mostly sticking to LFR, what's missing is damage/

Otherwise, if you're doing normals, you're most likely doing 10 mans. In that case, what's missing is the 15 other people that make Holy work so much better.

[WinniPriest]

but holy gets the short bus.

I would love for them to make holy more competitive in tens but I just don't see how they could.
And yes there are lots of bad holies out there. My pet peeve isn't so much holy nova as the stupid sparkle floor on cd.

[TirielWoW]

I would love for them to make holy more competitive in tens but I just don't see how they could.
And yes there are lots of bad holies out there. My pet peeve isn't so much holy nova as the stupid sparkle floor on cd.

Look, I like my Holy Word: Sparkle Disco, ok? I'm going to put it down, and there's nothing you can do about it!

[WinniPriest]

Look, I like my Holy Word: Sparkle Disco, ok? I'm going to put it down, and there's nothing you can do about it!

It's a bad spell but I am pretty sure it regenerates more than five health per second...

[TirielWoW]

It's a bad spell but I am pretty sure it regenerates more than five health per second...

Depends on if the Disc Priest bubbles all the melee.

...cuz then it regenerates nothing.

[Deleted]

i personally love Holy and hate disc, mostly because i feel pressure to play disc due to it being superior.
apart from the 10/25 thing which is a factor (as much as i like HW: sparkle disco, it pretty much sucks and it makes its corresponding chakra state poor in almost all ToT 10 mans) that is something that could be tweaked and should be.

now my priest is only an alt so i make not sureties for me being super awesome Leet on my priest.
serendipity is stupid, sorry but it just is maybe i fail to use flash heal enough but i really think that is poor, i will return to this, now the reason Disc is superior is two fold (afaik atleast) atonement and archangel.

atonement is a nice tool to have and regardless of whatever blizzard says (its only intended for farm content and other bullshit) its used much more than that so either its nerfed to those levels or holy needs to get a hold of it too, or at least a version of it, why cant say smite trigger serendipity? besides we have red chackra, Why does it have Zero utility in raids? and with 30 secs to switch it cant even qualify for use in "farm" content, sure maybe its only for solo stuff and that would be fine but it is there why cant they make it into something usefull.....
and then archangel the thing that Really NEEDS to go to the talent section because something that's a 18 sec throughput 30 sec CD in content with plenty of heavy DM phases and then calm for a while and repeat is obviously skewing the results to Discs favor and its going to be like that until they make divine hymn have like a 45 sec cd, archangel is just Broken as is, should replace twisted faith since (imho) that thing is completely useless.

[TirielWoW]

(as much as i like HW: sparkle disco, it pretty much sucks and it makes its corresponding chakra state poor in almost all ToT 10 mans)

It sucks in 25 mans, too.

[Nottatank]

The truth is the holy priests you see are casuals and RPers that spec holy for novelty and get Holy nova glyph. My point is blizzard is not making drastic enough changes to attract people back to holy. Don't make it disc but increase mana regen by 10% or something. I don't like to see disc nerfed anymore than anyone else but holy gets the short bus.

Just wow.

I really hate QQ threads that say "NERF other specs" instead of "so-and-so deserves a buff in this area".

I love holy and currently play it for every fight in a 11/13hc 25m with the exception of hm lei shen which my guild is currently working on. In case you're wondering I don't use the 'holy nova' glyph and I won't RP with you after raids.

Holy is in a fine place. I usually run with around 13k spirit for holy and roughly around 41k spell-power with self-buffs. I don't really have many complaints, if any. One complaint i do actually have is that it really annoys me when people complain endlessly about holy isn't strong, because frankly it is powerful. It takes smart play and actual skill to know when is the best time to get the most use out the toolbox blizz has provided us and execute raid healing without ooming. Just like any other 'reactive' healing class, shields/absorbs do leave holy 'behind' on the meters for SOME fights, but holy usually will come out shining for me on non-dmg modifying encounters. In case you're wondering, yes when some hm this tier were still progression ofc I went disc and took advantage of dmg modifying effects (think Jin-rok and Horridon),

I agree about holy word spells being under-tuned (especially in 10m), but I would rather have them then have nothing. To give you an idea about how much actual healing: Holy Word: Sanctuary did about 989,641 which is roughly 2.2 % on hm twins this week despite that fact that its was over-healing 89.9% of the time. So i would say in 25m it definitely has * potential*. I can imagine in 10ms where everyone is stacked up and you're 2 healing (think hm Qon) it would prove to be somewhat helpful on a fist smash where no other CD is available.

So to go back to the original question Disc Vs Holy, I would say why not both? Priests have 2 healing specs, use with one that fits your raids needs. If someone is already playing disc, try holy; if your raid needs an extremely op cool-down like Divine Hymm go holy, if your raid needs 30-50k more dps go disc (most likely a 10m); if your raid already has a ton of hots rolling and wants you to torture those healers then go disc *evil eyes*. It all comes down to what your good at, what you have the gear to do, and whether you're willing to identify raid needs based on raid comp and encounter.

This all being said, I think that the holy spec could use some love in the way of a personal cooldown to mitigate some incoming dmg beyond being able to glyph Inner sanctum. Inner sanctum isn't enough and most holy priests starting out most likely will be using Inner Will ( I currently do however use Inner fire, which i recommend to all holy priests that out-gear mana problems). The worst case scenario for a holy priest is on the fly self mitigation. Lets say for instance on hm torots everyone has just gotten their shell shields and the bats come down, I fade. Its my turn to put an external on the tank, so I guardian spirit him. Since everyone has there shells i want to cap them and pop divine hymm. While hymming my cast was cut short a second or so by a hostile group of turtles, that knocked most of my shell off. I don't want the tank to lose his shell during the upcoming stomp so I Pw:S him for that extra bit of help. However the shell shield I've just gotten is much lower than i need it to be. All other classes have something (Bulwark totem, divine protection, nimble+zen/fortifying, barkskin) and im left to trying to flash heal myself in the wrong chakra while other classes have an actual personal cooldown.

So my only REAL complaint about holy is lack of a personal. Other than that I think its great.

[Anastacy]

We needed this thread...

...but, at least everything that would actually be discussed will remain on topic. Clever title.

[Nightstorm]

@Nottatank I hear what you are saying, I don't think Holy is compared to someone running around with mooncloth bandages on the raid. It CAN heal competitive. Holy can have some very high Throughput but it has holes and weaknesses and here is what they are.


10m most go haste breakpoint and renew spam, this is extremely mana intensive and renew especially glyphed is very short.

Holy in Serenity chakra can not sustain tanking healing like other classes like pally can. Also will go oom

Holy must stack an incredible amount of Spirit compared to other classes.

Sanctuary- Do we need it? Is it useful? I see it pull from .3% -2%+ of my healing so in terms of competing on the meters I fell if I have the free mana why not. Other than being sparkly disc lights IS IT USEFUL? I evaluated this and wanted to know. I looked up the top parsing Holy priest and Shaman on megeara. Not because I feel it should heal like healing rain but I needed something to compare too. On average Sanctuary ticked for 800 and healing rain for 3000. Everyone knows if there are only a few on healing rain it ticks for 20k and crits close to 40k. I don't want that for sanctuary but it's strength is incredible low for how often you actually get people stacked.

chakra - pvp wise I think you should be able to use chastise in any chakra. This really hit home in pve when I was ptr testing proving grounds. I asked others how they handled all the adds in endless and they said CC a few of them, throw out a interrupt. I trying to picture myself running across the room to fear while my NPCs are dieing to drop a fear bomb and pop out of chakra to chastise. As is was I couldn't figure out which chakra I wanted to be in.

Personal cool down- In raid we have rotations for healer and defencive CDs. I am like uh shield myself for 80k-90k for 20k mana? Force of will is nice but you have to be smashed in the face 3 times for it to build up enough stacks. That is nice in pvp but in pve I feel like we really don't have any personally cool downs.

summary is I don't think blizzard knows how to balance 10m and 25m. I think holy is good in 25 man just missing a few things like personal CDs, better sanctuary, a Holy nova someone would actually use, better renew in Chakra sanctuary since renew is a filler. In 10m it might as well be it's own spec, you have to completely re gem, reforge, re-enchant. Make gems change with spec and give use a third talent and it would fix a lot. Outside of my 25 man if I want to join in someones 10m older raids I don't want to have to re gem and reforge everything.

Is holy perfect no, is it great? in areas. Are there holes and dead spells? yes If I could tweak a few things would it bring holy up with disc and other healers holistically? YES it would.

[Neichus]

Maybe I'm just late to the progression party, but I've felt like Holy has served me well in 10man heroics. I've never really felt at a loss for being able to heal a situation.

I guess what confuses me the most is the Chakra-hate. People seem to want to flip around between Chakras all the time to always have the "best" setup between single-target and AoE. But the base toolkit as a Holy Priest provides almost all of what I need for that. I tend to view the Chakras then less about "single target vs. AoE" as much as trying to figure out which endangers my raid more: single players being burst down or high overall raid damage. I don't get both at the same time, but I feel exemplary at either role when I choose to focus on it.

To take an example, on H.Iron Qon I spend Ro'shak's phase in Serenity because of the need to rapidly heal up a few targets; it's Holy Word in particular is amazing for that being cheap, high on healing, and leaving a residual buff on them if they need further healing. I then spend most of Quet'zal also in Serenity, only switching to Sanctuary after the Wind Storm, and remain in Sanctuary for the rest of the fight which allows the other healers to focus on the tank at the end.

Another example that I think better illustrate my point above is H.Jin'rohk. I generally spend the main phase in Sanctuary because that way I can easily counteract raid damage. Damage output during this phase is highly predictable and most deaths occur because of a coincidence of Static Burst + dispel/lightning orb. Because the damage is predictable I don't feel a great need to burst-heal players up, and if I can keep player health high overall it just makes it that much less likely they'll get flatted (as opposed to Ro'shak who will throw a blast at the same time Quet'zal decides to whirlwind the same group, which can't be helped just by keeping everybody generally topped off). I then switch to Serenity for the Lightning Storm. At first this may seem counter-intuitive since it's an AoE damage phase, but in my experience what kills more often than not is accidental encounters with a couple of orbs, and since it isn't realistic to keep everybody topped off at all times during this phase I select the Chakra that lets me rapidly save lives.

I think the other aspect that people underrate about Chakra is that it also allows you to tailor yourself to who you're healing with. My co-healers are a Druid, Paladin, and Shaman. When I'm with the Paladin Beacon keeps the tanks stabilized and she is more adept at throwing quick Holy Shocks at wounded players, which means I more often approach a fight with her in Sanctuary because it allows me to put out more healing overall without worrying as much about individuals dying. By comparison the Druid has plenty of healing output, but at least until 5.4 has fairly crummy spot-burst healing, and so I think that we interface better when I use Serenity. Shaman is a mix and highly depends on the fight and whether we can utilize her AoE heals or not (i.e. can we all stand in one place). As such it's really important to understand what your co-healers bring rather than assuming that Chakra selection is 100% about the fight.

[Nottatank]

Nightstorm It is its own spec. I always regem and reforge when i switch between disc and holy. That being said I'm only doing it once a week. Before I was in a 25m, I did play Holy in 10m heoric content for some fights also. IMO the only fights that scream Disc is better is Jinrok, Horridon, Jikun and maybe Primo depending on what you're focusing on (i.e. fights has have dmg modifiers). Other than that holy is pretty great on all other fights.

10m seems like it actually does sync well with holy in sanctuary chakra. think keeping up EoL so easily on both groups, circle of healing hitting half the raid glyphed, PoM it so incredibly OP for 10s, and your lightwell/spring pretty much being able to save lives throughout almost its full duration. This being said, being on top your game for holy is vital.

When you disc its like, Keep up evangelism, consume so your AA buffs, spam pw:s, penance on CD, and SS before raid dmg or on the tanks or tanks+melee group. Literally I have a one button macro that i use every minute for disc that's has everything in it except for spamming PW:S and Smiting. The 1 button does it all macro for disc is pretty 'smart' play, but at the same time its *yawn*... boring.

Holy is more fun IMO and has better total output. Back to my original post the question really is, whats needed in the specific raid environment you play in and are you willing whichever spec your raid is needing to progress.

Also tho, I wanted to point out that if a holy priest does plan to renew spam (I think that POH w/ its EOL is more efficient mana wise and output wise) they should be doing that in serendipity chakra. Also i just wanted to point out that if you are reforging for the renew haste breakpoint its only a tid bit more to get to the next haste point for lightwell, which makes all that haste worth it.

[Nightstorm]

@Nottatank Sorry if I was confusing, I meant that 10 man holy and 25 man holy might as well be different specs.

@Neichus Sure switching Chakras can work in 10 man but in 25 man it would be a rare thing to use serenity. God knows I want to on Heroic Dark Ani. PoH hitting 1-3 targets half they time in phase one even after I setup groups the best I can. It's a fight in 25 man where I wish renew was stronger but even if I switch to serenity to beef up renew I am 33% mastery and have crap for haste to support renew. I would love to go disc on that fight buy my guild thinks divine hym on one of the jolts is > disc.


Don't get me wrong Holy is good but we have some holes and useless spells. Holy Nova, sanctuary is lackluster, renew in sanctuary chakra, etc.

[Neichus]

I was under the impression that people considered Holy fine in 25mans and that most of the concerns were more directed toward 10man. I mean, I can't speak for heroic 25mans, but if it's only one difficulty of one fight that provides a problem I guess I don't see that as a major fault of the spec. I've healed as a few other classes (although nothing on heroic aside from Priest) and I've had my ups and downs between each encounter as well with them.

[Moogie423]

I too think Holy under-performs in 10 mans. I play both Disc and Holy, and the fights where I can play Holy without stressing the other healers are few and far between. Atonement healing is still just too powerful since it double dips in healing and absorbs. Also, Holy's mana is just plain garbage. I prefer to play as Holy, but just am unable to on most fights due to Disc's superiority.

My solution: Cut divine aegis from atonement in half or remove it completely. Give Holy something new to help with mana and give sanctuary a 25% buff.