I am only 2k rated but in my experience mut already does too much damage. You trade in shadow dance and clunky positional req for a real dps cooldown thats easy to use. There are no huge numbers except maybe envenom but all things together (poison that actually does very good damage, 20 extra energy for extra pooling and dispatch which is pretty ridiculous) make killing someone very easy. Best thing is that even without cooldowns popped you do respectable damage.
this entire post by the OP is useless , muti rogues trade the amount of control u can have with sub for pretty much nothing or maybe just oh look i can dps without positional requirements
Last edited by Kael; 2013-07-22 at 09:30 AM.
the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:
-Reroll another class, who wants rouge's anyway.
-Diablo 3 Sold 12 Million Copys
-Haste will fix it
-Rogue's are fine
Not these threads again.
Rogues have been the worst class i MoP in PvP by far. At the moment, for instance, every single melee class performs better in PvP. Rogue damage is not anywhere Enhancement, Retribution, DKs, Warriors Monks or even Ferals.
There are skilled Rogues that beat most classes, but that is only cause of skill and not the class.
A skilled rogue with 2,2k could get 2,7k easily with most other classes!
Assassination does the most single target sustained damage to enemy players in the game. It's almost as if you have 100% shadow blade uptime without the cp bonus. Deadly poison + Venomous Wounds + Prey on the Weak + One use trinket or proc trinket will actually kill someone without you doing much of anything. I can't count the amount of times I've killed a Warrior, Hunter or another Rogue where they're running away from me and they go splat from deadly poison and Venomous wound ticks.
If you haven't played on the ptr, don't bother posting. I don't need to show evidence when anyone here can hop on the ptr and see for themselves. Anyone who has decided to play on the ptr or is already on the ptr should do the following...
Reforge everything to mastery and gem yellow slots to full mastery. Orange is agility/mastery and blue can be whatever
Spec into Shadow Focus, Prey on the Weak, Burst of Speed, Marked for Death.
Glyph Cheap shot/blind and whatever else you want.
Vs most specs this is what i do and I will end up killing or force the poor guy to use a jail card like Divine Shield, Dispersion, Ice Block, Deterrence. By that time its already too late. If your opponent let's you drop him below 50% health, its over no matter what he does. Venomous Wounds and Deadly poison are like ticking time bombs, Mutilate and Envenom just accelerate the process.
Open with Cheap shot > On Use trinket, Mutilate > Rupture > Marked for death, Kidney Shot > Mutilate x2 > Vanish > Garrote > Vendetta ( You don't need to use Vendetta if you already know you're going to win) > Envenom > Mutilate.
The Garrote opener is similar, I'm sure some of you can figure it out. Again this is a set up I just made up. I'm not one of those Youtube heroes who spend time making one shot macros and shit. Sometimes don't even follow this when I play the actual game. As long as you get Rupture on your target, you can basically just wing it from there. If you're a good Rogue, you should be able to know what to do without this opener and also know what to do after the opener.
Anyway its a good set up if the person you're fighting doesn't trinket anything. In most cases people will sit the first cheap shot but trinket the kidney shot. In that case just Vanish and follow the chain. Warriors, other Rogues, Ele Shamans Shadow Priests basically have no answer for this set up. I've killed people before I even had a chance to Envenom at the end.
If the guy you're fighting uses any of his jail cards, that means you use yours. Vanish or Prep Vanish and re open.
Actually 1700 is average. Most 1700 players know how to play their class at an intermediate level, use keybinds, mouse turn and have a basic understanding of macro usage. The average player on the ptr is far superior when you compare him to the average player on live. Serious pvpers play the ptr in advance to see how their class is doing or to play another class.being above 1700 makes you good in this game?
Burst of speed is also easily countered by roots & every form of cc in the game ( apart from the passive slows which are actually minority )
Roots aren't a problem when Cloak is on a one minute cool down unless you want to use it defensively. Also Burst of Speed almost makes Rogues unpeelable. It's as if DK's Death's Advance didn't have a cool down.
Assassination Rogues do gem pure Mastery in yellow slots in pvp. Some are more conservative and stick to the orange agility/mastery gems. The reason Mastery is out of control in season 14 gear is because the stats are leveled to item level 522 gear. Which means every class gets a boost in primary and secondary secondary stats while Resilience hasn't changed other than the trinket bonus. Some specs/classes benefit from primary/secondary stats more than others and those that do gain a greater indirect buff as pvp gear increases in item levels . Assassination Rogues in particular benefit heavily on Agility and Mastery. Mastery scales linear from what i can tell (Someone who pve's might need to confirm/deny) this for me. Which means the more of it you have, the better you are.I've not yet seen the new stat weights to mastery, but I'm not aware of any formula changes, nether have I seen any rogues running around gemming pure mastery, pvp geared of otherwise. So how exactly is a standardised mastery increase making us out of control?
Yes. Part of the reason Subtlety did so well in season 11 was because there was no nerf to Sinister Calling while gear just kept progressing. Then you would play the tournament realm which was patch 4.3 but in season 9 gear and Subtlety had a harder time killing people in a bomb.So basically we are scaling well with the gear levels that are achievable at the end of this xpac.... Just like almost every other xpac.
Who would have thought rogues scale well with higher gear ilvls. Amirite
Did you even read the original post? I stated that I didn't use any pve trinkets only Full pvp gear. No extra buffs either. I discredit myself as a bad Rogue because I am a bad Rogue but I'm killing people with ease on the ptr by playing Assassination. The point I was trying to make was that the spec Assassination (not the player) is doing the carrying. That is why when I play Subtlety, I'm get exposed as a bad Rogue when there's no overpowered spec to carry me.There was absolutely no data. He never showed his mastery, the trinkets he was using, his talents or gear. For all we know he could have been using the stupidly overpowered int trinket like most people and just roll everyone. I am on the PTR right now and the damage is no where CLOSE to where his is. The reason why we are ALL saying those things is cause they are true. Where has anyone agreed with him? He even discredits himself saying he is bad at playing a rogue, so why should we even listen if he doesn't know himself what he is talking about?
I'm not whining. I stated a theory that Assassination Rogues will be Overpowered in 5.4 pvp if nothing changes. You're the one whining about people such as myself who make bold claims against Rogues.there we go again its almost end of expansion and everyone starts whining about how OP rogues are which they are not.... does this endless conversation never end ?
Oh yes I do. And I believe the best way to nerf it is to remove the use of Deadly Poison in pvp situations. Or they could just remove Prey on The Weak. But that would just hurt the other specs so I like the former idea better.No, it's because you don't really know why Assassination should be nerfed. I'm sure for 90% that some rogue with Assassination beat you easily and you just came to the rogue forum to talk about how rogues are OP.
I can't tell if OP is serious or trolling, you only keep mentioning about good damage against bads/people who don't use trinkets and/or people in stunlock. Any Rogue can do great burst to people in stun lock or people who won't trinket easily, any class can do that. The only point I see you're trying to make is how Assassaination is more superior to other Rogue specs in certain aspects in terms of damage output which all was already well known as well. You have no real point aside from Assassination does "more damage" than sub and combat thus should be nerfed to those levels? How about looking deeper into sub and combat and see where the problem lies and what they can do from there, no need to have every single spec of Rogues to struggle in both PvP and PvE because one is better than the other.
You say you are killing people on the PTR, but have you tried dueling people on their mains, or just rolling around BGs?
Well, mastery just increases poison damage. At 0 mastery it's increased by a low number, and as you gain more that number goes up and up. Exactly like haste and crit. Agility does the same thing as well. All you are really saying is that you believe 320 mastery to be better than any other combination you can get from the same game slot (such as 80 agility / 160 mastery + socket bonus, or 160 agility + socket bonus).Mastery scales linear from what i can tell (Someone who pve's might need to confirm/deny) this for me. Which means the more of it you have, the better you are.
I'm going to sleep now because I work overnights. I'll be on tomorrow morning to respond to whatever questions you might have.
Like.. it's not that it devalues it exactly. What it does do is bias it some. In an random battleground, players will often be down a cooldown (for instance, it is often that you'll open on a mage without trinket or iceblock, but you don't know that going into it). So the net effect is you blow cools into a player who either may not have them or may have written themselves off the moment a rogue opened on them without a healer nearby (aka, they would rather die, respawn, and get to an objective, which is not normally correct play but it does happen). It is- generally- hard to see what is going on, I guess is my point.
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On the other hand, you also tried out with sub, and you aren't relying on blades.
It just my experience in arenas that I get peeled pretty consistently during a choreographed move such as vendetta. Vendetta is absolutely all in. It costs you a global, so if you are pressing it with high energy you will take a few seconds to earn back your damage. It's best used to back-to-back some envenoms, but even that warns the enemy (they hear the vendetta call or see a light turn on), then 1 second later the first, then 1 second later the second. If the opponent immunes, the vendetta is gone (including vanish), and like shadow dance it normally means "do whatever it takes to peel the rogue", but unlike shadow dance it doesn't deliver at least one stunned opponent when it busts out, and it has twice the cooldown, so many defensives line up with it easily.
But, you're seeing very threatening damage outside vendetta, and sub is not doing threatening damage outside dance. While probably intended... hrm.
Deadly poison has always been more damage than wound poison here, by the way- the question is really, do you expect to have a healer healing. In arena, I dispute that deadly is correct that often. I think there's an issue where the damage delta between deadly and wound is widened for mutilate by mastery (whereas it's a smooth scale for the other specs), but your claim is that this delta makes mutilate wildly powerful in battlegrounds (and maybe arenas and duels).
As Verain said Deadly > Wound because of the mastery , if u want ppl to belive would be alot easyer if your would psot something like look at this print screen DP 100k tick follow by 100k Envenom follow by 80k muti omg 280k in 2 sec or w/e but if u just say muti is op and nothing to back it up u will have a hard time to make ppl belive you