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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitius View Post
    Nah, but i asume if i go to the wow forum in some recent patchthread and say "You should totaly play Rift, its so awesome" i guess i´d get infracted for trolling
    If you have a topical comparison to make that doesn't bash any game and relates to the discussion within the thread, nope.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    According to you!
    Not really. Game design and gameplay are objective.

    "Boring"/"fun" are subjective. Which is fine. But when I speak on gameplay or design I am talking specifically about the rules of the game. How boring/fun one finds those elements is personal and of no real value to anyone but them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitius View Post
    Yeah. Isn´t recommending other MMO´s in a RIFT thread in a RIFT forum about a RIFT update kind of derailing?
    Nope. We can talk about any game(s) in any forum as long as it is part of a cohesive conversation.

    Wocky is commenting on exhaustion with a specific model of advancement used in Rift. TSW does not use such a model. It is a valid point of design between the two games and part of the overall onus one has to understanding play mechanics of desperate systems.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post

    Wocky is commenting on exhaustion with a specific model of advancement used in Rift. TSW does not use such a model. It is a valid point of design between the two games and part of the overall onus one has to understanding play mechanics of desperate systems.
    While I do not claim to have played Rift at end-game (I am still enjoying the scenery if you like) from what I understand it is in many ways a WoW/EQ clone. In other words hit the top level and start grinding dungeons/heroics/raids. How is that any different than TSW? Just in the same way, there you hit top level (ability to equip QL10s) and you do the same procedure to the letter (normals/elites/NMs/ NY Raid). TSW even borrowed "Rifts" from Rift as the elemental world bosses they had running for a couple of weeks, while they also have lairs for more RNG loot farming. The only difference I can see is the auxiliary weapons you get with new DLCs, but then again Rift adds new souls with each expansion so it kind of evens out imo. Otherwise, I see no difference in ADVANCEMENT in TSW over Rift and that is one of the reasons I partly lost interest in the game as an MMO: namely, the fact that at top level it buries almost everything that makes it unique under the same gear-grinding systems that have been in place since EQ. As a single-player game though, with some multiplayer content (their dungeons are lots of fun to run a couple of times), TSW is an ace RPG with very few contemporary equals.

    My 2 cents on the subject. And in case anyone is wondering (and to keep it on topic) a Foundry-style PvP map creator will be a goldmine for the first game to implement it. I suggested that many moons ago for TSW on their forums, but if Rift does that first I won't be complaining since I quite enjoy the game so far for what it is.

  4. #24
    While I do not claim to have played Rift at end-game<snip>
    Gear grind or post level cap advancement didn't seem to be his problem. It was the level system as barrier from: "On review, I could actually see how frustrated and how much I hate the leveling process."

    I read as dissatisfaction with character level advancement, not specifically character power progression. The latter Wocky has expressed being cool with in the past in posts concerning raiding, endgame and motivation.

    Snip for brevity, of course.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Gear grind or post level cap advancement didn't seem to be his problem. It was the level system as barrier from: "On review, I could actually see how frustrated and how much I hate the leveling process."

    I read as dissatisfaction with character level advancement, not specifically character power progression. The latter Wocky has expressed being cool with in the past in posts concerning raiding, endgame and motivation.

    Snip for brevity, of course.
    Fair enough then. Even though I still wouldn't make your claims on its quality and design, it still is a very good RPG that tries to do a number of things differently with mixed results. I have a soft spot for it and recommend it to people as a great RPG, but it does need a few major changes imo in order to improve the MMO part.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pourekos View Post
    Fair enough then. Even though I still wouldn't make your claims on its quality and design, it still is a very good RPG that tries to do a number of things differently with mixed results. I have a soft spot for it and recommend it to people as a great RPG, but it does need a few major changes imo in order to improve the MMO part.
    Oh I agree with you for the part. Don't misunderstand- "best designed MMO" doesn't imply "best MMO" or even "very good/fun-to-play MMO".

    The practice of play in TSW is quite problematic for me actually! That is to say I can't even play TSW reliably [crashes, fps problems, etc]. Which doesn't even include my own frustrations with this or that mission, bug, quirk of controls and so forth.

    But in design? TSW is supreme among the MMOs of the decade. Funcom had a superb DD/T. Not to go into the specifics of because, off topic and all.

    This is something I often touch on with Rift too. Where I usually say to new players that while Rift is about as good [maybe subjectively better] as the finest MMOs of the 2nd era, Rift is still a very traditional MMO. Even in it's leveling and advancement systems.

    Some people might in fact be looking for an MMO that is in the style of WoW/Rift. For others they will find the conventions of that rather specific style of MMO tiring. Subjective like/dislike [in others, boring/fun] would not change the aspects of design and gameplay Rift applies as well as the genre has had in that style.

    It's one thing to not enjoy the style of game Rift or TSW are in practice or to find either "boring". "Boring" is not relevant to any discussion on design and gameplay.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-07-24 at 10:41 AM.

  7. #27
    Keyboard Turner Kiwidream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    PvP Dimensions sound excellent, I expect it's the next step along the road to allowing players to spawn mobs etc and build dungeons. I have always seen Dimensions being an amazing feature for player creativity and it's only going to get better over time as more functionality is added.
    This interview was awesome as Trion adapt and keep moving. I too am looking forward to what is incoming for Dimensions getting behind them 100% understanding their potential. I would love these steps to stop being baby ones I am not going to lie as I day dream each day of more interactive Axis XYZ zones but baby steps it is...

    and Primal build an Arena Dimension to be the Grand Master Architect of Arena's 2013 - you can do it!
    Last edited by Kiwidream; 2013-07-24 at 02:04 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellravager View Post
    Before they worry about adding new content maybe they should fix their current issues
    When will people realize that optimization is not done by the content team. Honestly if you have been playing MMO's for any length of time you should know this.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendros View Post
    When will people realize that optimization is not done by the content team. Honestly if you have been playing MMO's for any length of time you should know this.
    You didn't know? There is only ONE team, and they do everything!

    I find it funny, honestly, that people see them making something new, and complain that they should use that time to make X item to instead fix X bug.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendros View Post
    When will people realize that optimization is not done by the content team. Honestly if you have been playing MMO's for any length of time you should know this.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression the engine code optimizations were being done by ZorbaTHut, who is also primarily responsible for the mod API.

  11. #31
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonterf View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression the engine code optimizations were being done by ZorbaTHut, who is also primarily responsible for the mod API.
    Incorrect. Game developers all work on the exact same thing at the same time, often having hundreds of programmers working on one piece of code in a multi-user, text input proccesing tool. They type over eachother, around eachother, and inside of eachother's lines of code.

    This is why developing new content means you can never, ever fix any older issues such as bugs and poor performance. I thought everyone knew this by now.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Incorrect. Game developers all work on the exact same thing at the same time, often having hundreds of programmers working on one piece of code in a multi-user, text input proccesing tool. They type over eachother, around eachother, and inside of eachother's lines of code.

    This is why developing new content means you can never, ever fix any older issues such as bugs and poor performance. I thought everyone knew this by now.
    Dang, my worldview has been shattered. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ.

  13. #33
    Does anybody feel like raising level caps and releasing expansion-level content patches poorly serves the F2P model?

    Here's what I mean. Expansions are about selling expansions. (Emphasis on selling.) It seems to me that GW2 is in the better ballpark: smaller, but much more frequent updates that are a part of a continually advancing story.

    So 3.0 is going to have a new continent. Imagine two different scenarios:

    A. Level cap raised to 65 and gear is reset. Continent released all at once. Most zones are leveling zones. At 65, all new raids. All content is released up front and is expected to last a year or two.

    B. No new level cap or gear reset. New continent, but only one zone is released at a time; we must explore and settle each zone before moving on to the next. Each zone is part of a story as we explore and conquer a new continent. Along the way new raids are discovered. Zones and raids are released every month or so over the course of a year or two.

    What do we all think? Personally I think level caps and gear resets are good for selling expansions but it just doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense now that it's F2P. Super-mega-expansion-level patches that are a year+ in the making that are released for free that invalidate everything we've worked on that we don't have to buy into? Just scratching my head on that one, seems like the old pay to play model clashing with the new one.

    EDIT: Another thing that sucks about expansions is, it doesn't just invalidate everything the player has worked on, it invalidates everything the gamemaker has worked on. Never had this problem with WoW since I got in on vanilla, but I'm seeing it now having just started playing Rift. There's a whole game of content in classic Rift that I never got to see in its prime and never will, and with 3.0 there will be another whole expansion of wasted content. Again, if there is no longer any profit motive involved (i.e., selling expansions), why do this? Trion could continue to add more raids without doing a complete gear reset; they could add more zones without raising the level cap. Add, not replace.
    Last edited by hablix; 2013-07-27 at 07:30 PM.

  14. #34
    They aren't charging for the content and the level increase, only the new classes, just as they did with Storm Legion. And it's actually beneficial, because you know that people will be shelling out for either Patron status, or experience boosts to level faster. Expansions generate far more excitement than content patches, so they still make sense.

    As for the invalidation of content, I agree to a certain extent. This is how second generation MMO's are though. You walk a fine line between either forcing people to play through expansion after expansion worth of content (which is a massive time investment to "catch up" if you start a few years in), or you have to realize that some content won't really be experienced by latecomers and accept that. You can always go back and solo it/do it with a group : )

  15. #35
    I think they should of added 10 levels, not 5.

    But I like the idea of PvP Dimensions.

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