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  1. #1

    Need Prot advice from experienced tanks

    Hi posters I am a haste control pali. The other day I was tanking and a fellow raider in the group said I was doing something wrong because i wasn't topping meters on the Durumu fight as a tank. Mind you i was doing what seemed to be ok about 80k dps. I have read thecks sacred duty posts and elitest jerks. I read that timing sotr is better then just slamming it, which i understand. But this fellow raider brought up an interesting point to me he said i should macro shield of the righteous to crusader strike, judgment and hammer of the righteous. This would cause me to use sotr every time my hopo allows. So i tried this and its proven effective my dps is way higher on fights so is my sotr uptime. On fights like horridon even with this method it handled triple puncture just fine. I thought this dude was trolling me but he said macroing the ability in will make it so that my dps improves aswell as vengeance building and allow for the self heals i generate to compensate for not just timing sotr. Thoughts? anyone please chime in and discuss this out or just help me figure out if this method is really better or worse.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Starks View Post
    Hi posters I am a haste control pali. The other day I was tanking and a fellow raider in the group said I was doing something wrong because i wasn't topping meters on the Durumu fight as a tank. Mind you i was doing what seemed to be ok about 80k dps. I have read thecks sacred duty posts and elitest jerks. I read that timing sotr is better then just slamming it, which i understand. But this fellow raider brought up an interesting point to me he said i should macro shield of the righteous to crusader strike, judgment and hammer of the righteous. This would cause me to use sotr every time my hopo allows. So i tried this and its proven effective my dps is way higher on fights so is my sotr uptime. On fights like horridon even with this method it handled triple puncture just fine. I thought this dude was trolling me but he said macroing the ability in will make it so that my dps improves aswell as vengeance building and allow for the self heals i generate to compensate for not just timing sotr. Thoughts? anyone please chime in and discuss this out or just help me figure out if this method is really better or worse.
    Sounds like a terrible idea.
    It might marginally improve your dps, but that's it.
    Also not going to improve veng building.
    Death Knight-90 Druid-90 Hunter - 90 Mage - 90 Monk - 90 Paladin - 90 Priest - 90 Rogue - 90 Shaman - 90 Warrior - 90
    What doesn't kill me gives me vengeance.
    I am a dying breed - laying it all on the line.

    HC Burning Legion - 14/14H

  3. #3
    Yeah, seconded. It's a terrible idea.

    I can only think of the absolute worst paladin tanks doing it. Well, no. The absolute worst wouldn't even use SotR. So, the almost-absolute worst.

    It has nothing to do with building vengeance. That comes from taking damage, not using SotR.

    What's possible is that you're not skilled at hitting SotR, so by macro'ing it you're actually using it as opposed to never using it. That could lead to more damage. I'd recommend using the ability separately...though...

  4. #4
    I did use it seperately but i was timing it with abilities like triple puncture so no I dont think its being skilled at hitting sotr

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Starks View Post
    I did use it seperately but i was timing it with abilities like triple puncture so no I dont think its being skilled at hitting sotr
    It still removes a lot of control. For example in a lot of abilities you want to be able to get 5 HoP and then Sotr -> judge/cs --> sotr which your macro will never let you do.
    Death Knight-90 Druid-90 Hunter - 90 Mage - 90 Monk - 90 Paladin - 90 Priest - 90 Rogue - 90 Shaman - 90 Warrior - 90
    What doesn't kill me gives me vengeance.
    I am a dying breed - laying it all on the line.

    HC Burning Legion - 14/14H

  6. #6

  7. #7
    What I meant by skilled is that you used it often. It's a given that you'll be timing it for boss specials. Do you have logs to compare? What was your SotR usage prior to the macro? What is it post?

  8. #8
    no logs sorry the groups were pug runs, i work on call so can't commit to raiding on a schedule

  9. #9
    If you aren't solo-tanking Durumu, then 80k DPS is alright.
    You only have a chance at toping the meters there, if you solo-tank it.

  10. #10
    If your solo tanking 80k dps on durumu is very low idd however the idea of macroing shield into abiltiies is a terrible idea and the player who suggested it should just be quiet.
    Personally i use Holy Avenger for the dps + shield up time, so if you do, just run in with Avenging wrath + trinks/engineer gloves (if you are one etc) and just Cusader strike -> Shield -> judge -> shield etc..., easy 20+ shield duration + 200k+ dps minimum, then just use shield as much as possible, timing it so you will always have a shield of righteous before a hard stare. Never macro your most important timing ability though.

  11. #11
    It would be easier to help if you would have some logs, armory, ilvl or something Macroing SoTR to some other ability is definitelly bad idea. Especially in some HC bosses, if you dont use SoTR at correct time you will hug the ground quite often. I recommend you to bind it some easy to use bind and keep track of your holy powers.
    Ususally the abilities you need to save holy powers for are on timers. Which you can track with bigwigs or DBM. Also saving holy power for some ability doesnt mean you should sit on holy power cap with holy power generators active. Im sure you have noticed SoTR is not on global, so as long as you can generate 3 holy power before strike you can get ShoTR up.
    As said in post before I suggest you to generate 5 holy powers then use SoTR to go back to 2 then back to 5 and ShoTR etc. So you only have to generate 1 holy power if you need to heal after SoTR or do another SoTR in short period of time.

  12. #12
    Knowing the fights and knowing when to use SotR is more beneficial than macroing it.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    SotR isn't only for big hits. You should still be using it close to as often as you 'can' (by this I mean think of sotr as only being usable on 5 holypower rather than 3 so you're always only 1 generator from covering a hard hitting attack and then use it as often as you can when you have 5 unless there's less than 5 seconds till a hard hitting attack).

  14. #14
    Agreed, this is about the worst idea you can have, aside from just NOT using SHotR and spending HoPo on WOG or something, instead.

    You can bring up DPS by casting more SHotR's, so long as you retain "gas in the tank" to cover that TP/TR/whatever nuke is coming. Do this by casting SHotR @ 5 HoPo (instead of 3), at least until you get comfortable with your timing/cadence. SHotR is a great tool to cover melee attacks, but obviously far more inmportant to cover the telegraphed nukes.

    Macro'ing it will give you the "highest" uptime by making it braindead, but your effective uptime (i.e. the important one) will be terrible. Giving up control is never a good idea. You're likely just being a bit too cautious/concervative with your SHotR casts (holding it a bit too long), which isn't terrible since you're likely covering all the big nukes, but you could play a bit looser and cast more often for additional coverage of melee and more DPS. Holding SHotR's too long also means you're likely overcapping (wasting) HoPo, a huge DPS/uptime loss in and of itself.

    Without logs, it's hard to look into anything further, but TL;DR - Don't macro SHotR.
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  15. #15
    If you were pugging probably just were two tanking it. If no solo tanking 80k is quite ok.

  16. #16
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    You never want to macro ShotR, never ever ever. Learn how to time it correctly. For me at least the tricky part is keeping it up as much as possible while also making sure to cover the big attacks; I'll sometimes use it once at 5HP just before the big attack, and then Judge/CS for a third HP and spend that again immediately to cover the big attack.

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  17. #17
    That is such a bad idea, don't use that macro, it'll get you killed!
    As long as you don't waste holy power there is no DPS gain from it, either.

  18. #18
    I did like.. 50k on our Durumu kill yesterday, on my Paladin. Granted that was with a blue sword and total ilvl of 478 equipped. I gemmed almost 100% Stamina and only managed to wring about 2500 Haste out of my gear after hit/exp caps. But the healers had no problem keeping me up, because I used SotR properly by keeping on the eyeball's swing timer, refreshed SS when I had a Windsong haste proc, etc. Little things can make a big difference in how well the encounter goes..

  19. #19
    Weapon DPS/ilvl matters to us about as much as a neck or ring. It's just a stat stick, our damage comes from Vengeance and Haste.

    I guess at 478, gemming stam is OK, but really, you shouldn't suggest that to anyone. Ever.

    Will let Windsong go, since it's on a blue, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Weapon DPS/ilvl matters to us about as much as a neck or ring. It's just a stat stick, our damage comes from Vengeance and Haste.

    I guess at 478, gemming stam is OK, but really, you shouldn't suggest that to anyone. Ever.

    Will let Windsong go, since it's on a blue, lol.
    I mentioned that I gemmed stam just to emphasize that I didn't have much of a budget to work with in order to get extra DPS stats. If you don't have 600k+ health, you'll get torn to shreds by bats. With a Darkmoon stam trinket, flask and gems I just about reached 610k.

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