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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Burden of Guilt Removed - 5.4 discussion.

    I'm glad they're bringing Inquisition up to par with other maintenance buffs, but removing Burden of Guilt? Really? I'd certainly hope not; but there's nothing to suggest they're going to make it 'baseline' as they've done with Howl of Terror. Can't say I look forward to being kited in 5.4
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    I'm glad they're bringing Inquisition up to par with other maintenance buffs, but removing Burden of Guilt? Really? I'd certainly hope not; but there's nothing to suggest they're going to make it 'baseline' as they've done with Howl of Terror. Can't say I look forward to being kited in 5.4
    Seal of justice says hi. Why you were spec'd into burden of guilt in the first place is beyond me, fist of justice was superior in every way possible.
    Think of the hubris it must take to yank a soul out of non existence into this... meat, to force a life into this... thresher. That"s... so my daughter, she spared me the sin of being a father. - Rust Cohle

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    Seal of justice says hi. Why you were spec'd into burden of guilt in the first place is beyond me, fist of justice was superior in every way possible.
    Seal of Truth is better. Seal of Justice's effect was magic and could be dispelled more easily; coupled with the fact that the overall DPS was lower.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  4. #4
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. Remember what happened with Shamans, and the glyph that made Lightning Bolt castable while moving? At first, it was just removed; and for several weeks it seemed like it was going to remain that way. It wasn't until near release that they announced that it was becoming baseline, and that datamining couldn't gather that. I wouldn't be surprised if Burden of Guilt followed the same path.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Seal of Truth is better. Seal of Justice's effect was magic and could be dispelled more easily; coupled with the fact that the overall DPS was lower.
    You keep playing with SoT in pvp, do whatever you want. But SoJ is better in any way in pvp.

    - More burst (pvp is all about burst atm),
    - the dot from SoT sucks donkey balls (it does what, 10-20k dmg per tick?)
    - SoJ gives a slow
    - by using SoJ, you dont have to take Burden of Guilt.

    Seems all pro's to me.

    Did quite a few tests on dummies and pvp, and everytime SoJ outbursted SoT.

  6. #6
    I see what you mean it can be a nerf to solo/random battleground pvp. But in my opinion in rated pvp you should just get a partner who can slow for you without wasting a talent and pick Fist , which is really powerful. So in that regard we have a potential new contender for rated pvp in that tier now.

    Edit: Dat Execution Sentence change. Almost dispel protection. <3
    Last edited by Pinkcrusader; 2013-06-12 at 11:33 AM.

  7. #7
    Btw, you forgot to mention that they replace Burden of Guilt with a freakin fear dude..

    "Burden of Guilt has been replaced with a new talent called Evil is a Point of View, which allows the Paladin to use Turn Evil on players and beasts."

    How fucking beast is that.

    Gonna play my ret definitly. These changes i see are good.

  8. #8
    Yup. Ima enter random BGs on patchday and fear all the Warlocks and Spriests!

  9. #9
    That replacement in talents is ..... blegh .......

    I found Burden of Guilt to be increadibly usefull in PvE encounters when you need to slow something, fears are bloody useless in PvE this expansion.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedbastard View Post
    Btw, you forgot to mention that they replace Burden of Guilt with a freakin fear dude..
    The issue with Seal of Justice is that it can only be applied with melee attacks; something that sucks when you're trying to close the distance between you and someone else via kiting. Burden of Guilt had a much bigger range via Judgement, and was again difficult to dispel.

    The other issue of course, is the limited use that a fear has when you're melee; not least because, again, you're trying to close distance; whereas a fear sends the target running. Repentance is a superior CC in this respect; not least because it shares the same CD/Cast time as Turn Evil, but also keeps the target in one place and has bigger range by 10 yards.
    Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-06-12 at 11:48 AM.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkcrusader View Post
    Yup. Ima enter random BGs on patchday and fear all the Warlocks and Spriests!
    This, I'm just gonna run around finding warlocks and priest and fear them off cliffs, into water, on edges, to africa and many more evil dark places.
    Think of the hubris it must take to yank a soul out of non existence into this... meat, to force a life into this... thresher. That"s... so my daughter, she spared me the sin of being a father. - Rust Cohle

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    This, I'm just gonna run around finding warlocks and priest and fear them off cliffs, into water, on edges, to africa and many more evil dark places.
    You can't fear people off cliffs, into water or over edges.
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  13. #13
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    You can't fear people off cliffs, into water or over edges.
    I'm sure it wasn't meant to be taken literally, but I've definitely been feared into water, and into walls and between boxes that I can't get out of.

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    This, I'm just gonna run around finding warlocks and priest and fear them off cliffs, into water, on edges, to africa and many more evil dark places.
    Glad to see I'm not the only one to use this.

    "BRB feared to fcking Africa, hump pillar for a sec"

    Part of the reason my toons are named after Kenyan cities (that, and they're all engineers = rocket boots = FAST LIKE KENYANS)

    OT - I'd be kinda shocked if we didn't get BoG baseline for Ret, since lacking a snare (outside of the clunky SOJ mechanic) is pretty weak 9 years into the game. I don't think they'd be able to give it to ALL specs, simply "because Holy"...but maybe it could be a Prot/Ret thing. Personally, I swap between FOJ and BOG a lot, depending on who I'm facing and/or what I'm doing. Getting stuck with FoJ vs a feral FC makes for a very frustrating time (for example), and not having a DoT for stealthies is also rather annoying. FOJ is def strong, and I really prefer it, but depending on parter/comp, stun DR gets hit hard too.

    Kinda surprised they offer TWO CC options that are essentially the SAME on the same tier though. Short cast time fear on 15 sec CD, 8 sec duration OR short cast time incap on 15sec CD, 8 sec duration. Both break on damage. Zzzzz, compelling.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-06-12 at 12:55 PM.
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  15. #15
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
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    The seal use on demand is GREAT as it is. The DPS downside of SoJ isn't that big and the ranged snare from BoG can come from other classes we play with.

    I never use BoG nowdays anyway, there is no point trading something to SHUT DOWN someone for a ranged snare. Maybe only in BGs like Silvershard, but Ret needs insanely a LOT, a CC to land kills/peels.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  16. #16
    We are learning to counter our dark forces we no belong to them shiny forces anymore ima want a undead paladin soon, fear all the way

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    The seal use on demand is GREAT as it is. The DPS downside of SoJ isn't that big and the ranged snare from BoG can come from other classes we play with.

    I never use BoG nowdays anyway, there is no point trading something to SHUT DOWN someone for a ranged snare. Maybe only in BGs like Silvershard, but Ret needs insanely a LOT, a CC to land kills/peels.
    Blizzard has been trying to move away from dependence on other classes though; why do you think we've seen such a rise in self-heals over the years? Having to depend on other classes to do our ranged slowing for us is not a prospect I look forward to; never mind trading said ranged slow for a fear that will nonetheless be inferior to Repentance, given the fact that we're melee.
    Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-06-12 at 02:05 PM.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The issue with Seal of Justice is that it can only be applied with melee attacks; something that sucks when you're trying to close the distance between you and someone else via kiting. Burden of Guilt had a much bigger range via Judgement, and was again difficult to dispel.
    Can't disagree with you here, altho i hardly experience being kited (too some degree) with Hand of Freedom, Emancipate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The other issue of course, is the limited use that a fear has when you're melee; not least because, again, you're trying to close distance; whereas a fear sends the target running. Repentance is a superior CC in this respect; not least because it shares the same CD/Cast time as Turn Evil, but also keeps the target in one place and has bigger range by 10 yards.
    I say it depends on the comp you are facing.
    For example: resto druids; which are hard to Repentance when they keep shapeshifting.

  19. #19
    Epic! solvexx's Avatar
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    I like the new replacement.
    Seriously.

  20. #20
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Blizzard has been trying to move away from dependence on other classes though; why do you think we've seen such a rise in self-heals over the years? Having to depend on other classes to do our ranged slowing for us is not a prospect I look forward to; never mind trading said ranged flow for a fear that will nonetheless be inferior to Repentance, given the fact that we're melee.
    Ret is the most team player DPS there is. Think Selfless Healer. Think Hand of Sacrifice... all the Hands really. Ret IS to be played with an eye on the team for Heals/BoPs/Freedoms/Dispels the Toolset itself shows so. Even the game is balanced for x3 and Blizz always said even x2 is not balanced for the lack of group utility/synergy.

    And EiaPoV (the fear) is to be used on a Healer to land a kill on another player, as much as Repentance is. This is great too for peels - when a Feral for instance burst on someone, you can just fear him to save the target life. Repentance is out of the question since is casted and any dot breaks it.

    Again, this fear is not meant to be used on the target to land a kill - the Fear CC can take about 10% of the target life as damage before it breaks so it can hold for a little to land a kill, yes, but it'll be usefull for a lot of other things - even to CC someone to cap a base on RBGs.

    Not to mention, Repentance is out of the question to use on someone we want to kill, since he'll be with censure that breaks it, so the fact that Rep makes the target stand still and Fear makes it run away is irrelevant.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

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