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  1. #1

    Unhappy [PTR] Proving Grounds Gear Scaling is Retarded

    As we all know different specs scale differently with gear. And it usually balances out somewhere in the normal/lfr (current tier) endgame raiding. And now blizz choose to scale our gear down to 468 (correct me if am wrong). That will basically trash some of our specs that scales well with gear (fury warr, combat rogue, etc). If you dont believe me please google noxxic realistic dps rankings and take a look at the difference between 468 and 502.

    Scale our gear down to 502 instead please.

  2. #2
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    for one, noxxic is a very poor website to reference.

    also you do have the option to choose another spec, and i also doing they are going to make it so hard that only a few classes can get through it. likely all dps specs will be able to clear it.

    great scaling is fine at 463. let's you actually test out your skills instead of just letting the gear get you through it.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    omg it's unfair for lower dps specs too. I'll never do as much as a rogue so blizzard needs to buff me in there!!!111!!1
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #4
    Do you have actual experience from the PTR to back this up, or are you just worried?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratyrel View Post
    Do you have actual experience from the PTR to back this up, or are you just worried?
    I didn't try a warrior on the ptr, but I do know that fury with low % crit is a pain in the ass

    I guess getting a 463 2h weapon isn't that hard (baring problems with no gems slots on blue 463 weapons iirc) but if someone is running say fury/prot for the guild they have to change every time they want to do PG

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    omg it's unfair for lower dps specs too. I'll never do as much as a rogue so blizzard needs to buff me in there!!!111!!1
    To be fair, I'm a pretty experienced player of the Warrior class. I had a fair amount of difficulty with the DPS challenge. It was impossible as a Fury Warrior, and if it isn't, was just 10 minutes of dumb luck. The amount of mastery over your class required to get through it was close to what would be required to be a heroic level player. Not quite, but it was certainly more demanding than I was expecting it to be based on the information that we were given about them. It was more difficult than any rank 1-8 Brawler fight. Hell, it was more difficult than any normal mode content put out this expansion.

    Again, I am not saying that it is too hard and needs to be made easier - but it was much more than I was expecting for a test to indicate I would not be a liability in a normal mode raid. Requried much more situational awareness and attention to detail than I had projected.

    Bashiok basically said that Bronze was good for 5 mans. Silver for LFR. Gold for Normal. But he has since then edited his post, saying that the information he had posted was liable to change during PTR testing and removed it.

    Do you have actual experience from the PTR to back this up, or are you just worried?
    Don't tell me you don't think there is going to be a difference in a class that has stacked 18000 rating in a secondary stat, being reduced to 10k or 12k will not have a noticeable detrimental effect on performance?

    I mean if you don't even have optimized pieces for scaling down, it's probably just going to be cut in half right to 9k, 12k is assuming you have all of the equipment available to you with the most sockets in it to retain as much secondary stat value through gems as you can.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    As I have previously said, make the mobs scale up to our gear instead of us scaling down.

  8. #8
    Considering the classes were way more balanced back in 463 gear than in current gear, a simple "no" will suffice I guess.

    That being said, it's somewhat true that going back to low ratings suck, but I'd rather take class balance over that.

  9. #9
    Blizzard will most likely make sure that all specs can pull through and complete these things. From what I've herd they aren't very hard on melee or ranged so maybe your lack of skill will truly shine when you fail to get anything other then silver... Also there will ALWAYS be classes/ specs (locks/mages ;P ) that preform better I have no pity for people that try to do these playing the worst spec possible and then cry that it's to hard.

  10. #10
    gear downscaling and possibly no set bonus/no sha gem/no special and what not limitations can turn gear/talent/gem choices from optimal into garbage.

    Good luck playing a fire mage with greatly reduced crit.
    Have fun in haste gear as enh in downscaled evironement, where it becomes close to useless/ where agi/mastery focus is the norm.
    Several healers and dps specs with HoTs or dots gear for a specific haste value for extra ticks, skipping their otherwise best stat to achieve this.

    in t14 i completed all gold CMs with the gear i used for raids, because back then the scaling was still in the "low gear" state where agi>mastery>crit>haste was the norm for enh. Going there now with t15 gear which is optimised for raiding (read 2haste> 1 agi= gems are haste focused), my dps takes a huge hit(compared to when done in t14 stuff) so the same would happen in proving grounds.

    While i can just grab old gear from my bank and optimise it for cm/proving grounds, it isn't the desired path.

    Making the proving grounds scale with the persons gear, thereby allowing them to play the spec and gear combo they are used to, would be truly testing them in what they do best, instead of enforcing different gear and specs because down scaling mutilates the relative stat values.

  11. #11
    The way I see it, proving grounds should be planned in a way to make it friendly to newbs. That is, people whose extent of raid experience is LFR (or possibly no LFRs at all, just heroic dungeons). I'd imagine these people would be rocking a number of blues and MAYBE some LFR epics.

    If you're a new to raiding, then having gear scaled down is a good thing because then you'll be completing these tasks at a gear level you're familiar with. Yes, you could argue that those in full LFR epics will find a lower gear level unfamiliar. However, at some point in that character's life, they were at that low of a gear level. It makes far more sense to drop people back to a gear level they already know than to boost everyone up to a gear level they might not know. Remember, these proving grounds are these to accommodate people who have not raided (and as such, do not have raiding level gear).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    Blizzard will most likely make sure that all specs can pull through and complete these things.
    Depends if they put anything ridiculous like Wrathion's 30 spread-out low-hp adds in...y'know, the sort of thing that enh cannot handle.

    in t14 i completed all gold CMs with the gear i used for raids, because back then the scaling was still in the "low gear" state where agi>mastery>crit>haste was the norm for enh.
    I did all the CM gold's with EM/PE and passive agi trinkets for the sake of healing/utility...made a difference in many situations.

  13. #13
    On live I only play Warlock and Boomkin as an alt.
    Currently I've completed Gold Proving Grounds on: Rogue (all 3 specs); Hunter (all 3); Warlock (all 3); Boomkin; Ele/Enh; Frost Mage. I'll try to get all DPS specs done to provide some feedback. Those are easily possible and the rest I didn't test.

  14. #14
    Unfortunately it will always be this way.

    Your essentially asking to be on an even playing field, but it will never be even. If they heighten the ilevel scaling, it will restrict players who are doing exactly what its intended for is learning how to play specs.

    If they keep it where it is, it'll allow players to learn around where they probably would be at.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    It was more difficult than any rank 1-8 Brawler fight.
    Breathing is more difficult than every rank 1-8 Brawler fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Again, I am not saying that it is too hard and needs to be made easier - but it was much more than I was expecting for a test to indicate I would not be a liability in a normal mode raid. Requried much more situational awareness and attention to detail than I had projected.
    That's what bronze/silver are for. In endless you shouldn't be able to AFK your way to wave 30, as some did as it was implemented (before any adjust on difficulty)


    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Don't tell me you don't think there is going to be a difference in a class that has stacked 18000 rating in a secondary stat, being reduced to 10k or 12k will not have a noticeable detrimental effect on performance?
    There will be, same for every class. You know EVERYONE gets downscaled to 463 right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I mean if you don't even have optimized pieces for scaling down, it's probably just going to be cut in half right to 9k, 12k is assuming you have all of the equipment available to you with the most sockets in it to retain as much secondary stat value through gems as you can.
    If you really think that gear is THAT important you are in for a rough surprise. They made it 463 so it's SKILL what matters, and you can't be carried by gear. I've seen plenty of 530+ people on brawlers saying "boo hoo, this is too easy" then wiping to hexos/disruptron/epicus maximus, even nibbleh. Those were not good players, those were carried by gear, and that's what blizz wants to avoid here.

  16. #16
    At this instance I sadly have to agree with the OP. This scaling will ruin the purpose of proving grounds, if kept through ALL difficulties. Gold and Infinite should even scale UP.

    Buu <= WHY I LOVE TO PLAY HUNTERS! => Pendleton

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Inthislzon View Post
    They made it 463 so it's SKILL what matters, and you can't be carried by gear.
    you can't tell me that a fire mage and frost DK work equally well in 463 gear and that the only difference skill...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    At this instance I sadly have to agree with the OP. This scaling will ruin the purpose of proving grounds, if kept through ALL difficulties. Gold and Infinite should even scale UP.
    I agree with this, and ive also done proving grounds on PTR as a boomie.
    Boomies + low gear = not fun times, but maybe its just because of the dmg buff not working. But after it does, itll probably be worse compared to classes that scale awesomely at low ilvl

    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    you can't tell me that a fire mage and frost DK work equally well in 463 gear and that the only difference skill...
    He obviously plays a class that is great for 463, and wants to feel better maybe? im not to sure.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    While most of this thread is worried about their spec's viability - who cares; everyone on MMO-Champ is pretty much good to go - what we really should be worried about is the feature's ability to teach new or bad players. I for one don't think learning to heal in a mana-starved environment prepares you at all for healing in high-end raiding, even if the fight mechanics are similarly complex. Simply put, you play dramatically differently in poor gear than you do in good gear, and that's why the gear scaling is questionable. It will teach the wrong set of skills, and ultimately fail at producing a new batch of potential recruits for all the guilds currently in need of them.

  20. #20
    Gotten to endless wave 23 as hunter dps, but it took me a loooong time to get that far (literally perfecting every wave for the past 2 days - using as little cds as possible, and killing them as fast as possible. I do notice that on certain classes it's 10x easier (warriors, mages, ele shamans just faceroll through them).
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