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  1. #1

    My crazy idea on How the games progression has always meant to be.

    You were never supposed to force raiding on everybody. You weren’t even supposed to force dungeons on everybody.

    There are millions of people on this game all looking to be called the best. Things like the World First documentary can attest to this. You weren’t supposed to force progression and make everybody run the same dungeons over and over again. All you had to do was give credit where credit was due. There are millions of people out there pursuing greatness, looking for adoration or something to do with the greatness they have attuned.

    Dungeons were always meant to be hard, some dungeons were meant to be even harder, raids are supposed to be harder and some raids are supposed to be harder than those raids and some raids are supposed to be the hardest.

    Ex.

    Scholomance – 5 Man | Stratholme – 10 man
    Karazhan – 10 man | Magtheridon – 30 man

    Illidan – 40 man, sometimes he ignores the fact that there is a tank starts hunting everyone individually and you have to run and hide from him.

    Lich King – 50 man, he has his own army and no one should die cause you’ll be turned into an undead and your raid has to kill you too.

    Deathwing – 60 man, you fight him in abandoned Grim Batol with your group surrounding him at all sides tearing his armor literally piece by piece, using columns and holes and environment to do dodge his tail, his head, his wings, until he flies off and half your group is stuck on his back and the other riding drakes of different colors with the whole group fending off swarms of black dragons, drakes, whelps, twilight dragons, twilight cultist on mounts until you reach your destination for phase 2 or it’s a wipe.

    No lockout resets until requested, everyone in the raid gets loot.

    Fluidity and Accessibility has always been the vanity convenience that is the compromise of this game. The game should’ve always been painstakingly hard, Illidan should’ve flew, broke earth and hunt you down, if you’ve beaten these guys then you can truly call yourself the best.

    All this compromise for “I can only raid Saturdays” “This is too hard” or “I don’t have 39 friends” has always been the games bane!
    Not everyone needs to see Illidan or Deathwing, if you saw Warlord Na’jentus then you should be proud! The one thing Blizzard always needed to do was develop content for the casuals! Not merge it with the Elite!

    Something based on a compromise is forever crippled. It’s like having one arm, one lip, one ear, and one less finger. And Blizzard is so far deep in their compromise that they can no longer see the errors in their way.
    You don’t make a baby swim with Michael Phelps in the same competition. It’s just unfair everyone knows the baby will lose. The ideas in this real life metaphor applies to everything else, you don’t drink salt water for rehydration, you don’t go in the moonlight for the same nutrients as sunlight, you don’t compare the size of the universe to the sun, you don’t make a house with scatch tape, you don’t make a level 1 and expect him to kill a level 80 and you don’t make people with no skills raid where skills are needed.

    Now where are casual in all this?

    Things for Casuals: or Anybody

    Fun and enjoyment

    Guild Housing, Team Vehicles, Crafting, Gathering, World Events, City Raids, Ceremonies, Gambling, Mini Games, Sightseeing, Tournaments, World PvP, Cock Fighting (pet battles), Outdoor Dungeons, and if you have imagination you can add a ton more to that list and that’s where the development was supposed to happen.

    Those with Greater Skill:

    Heroes of the Fun world, and the better you are, the even better you'll be. You'll be alive the longest at the city raids, you'll defend the most, heal the most and make the most impact. You'll probably be needed more and you'll make more friends because of what you bring to the table.

    I thought this was only a problem that we would have until WoW move from 20 devs to hundreds of devs. But I was wrong.



    And none of that E.peen nonsense. Thats just the way life is. If you're funny you make people laugh, if you're tall you can reach longer, if you're humble you can learn more, if you have great talents at boxing you can probably win championships and if you have good teamwork you can probably do better with your team. All this we bring to the table, for all this people might want us, for all this make us like keys to other peoples locks, in other words "I have a problem and you have the solution". This could range from many things like I just need someone to talk to for a minute, or hey you're interesting I need someone in my life to ponder and learn from or you're exciting you keep me awake. Many, many stuff, in fact probably life is made of a billion variations of that.

    This is the same case with an Mmo. Just like we in real life customize our selves, with our thoughts, our looks, our food and nutrients and how we spend our time. We're all looking for solutions those billions of variations of problems, and some people and in fact probably some us in this forum look to science of God to look for those answers to those billions of variations.

    On a much smaller scale we probably play Mmo's because of what we think the Genre is good for us. Mmo's have a massive world, scaling of power and skill, money and possession and most unique of all to the genre, millions of other people. If everything we do is a customization of ourselves then our efforts, our skills, our possession, are just some of the many things we use to present ourselves to other players.

    The problem with the compromise that Blizzard has started is that it takes away the requirement for any of those. It takes away the need for effort, it takes away the need for skill, it takes away the need to socialize, it takes away the need to learn better character, and to a lesser extent take away the need to earn money. This takes a way a huge hole in us and a pretty big gap in our thinkings, which can create problems in us, because we keep on playing with no longer caring about these things because in fact the game is starting to more and more become a waste of time the less you need it.
    They kept compromising, when in fact a great robust world with fun and fantastical things to see and do unique from our world was all they needed to do.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire grumpyoldman's Avatar
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    YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    WoW was always pretty much He-Man regarding the story and the characters.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Sauredfangs's Avatar
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    People are fools. Their own compromise are their own downfall.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    I'm so confused at what your trying to get acrossed with this thread....standing by for further clarification...

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    Fluidity and Accessibility has always been the vanity convenience that is the compromise of this game. The game should’ve always been painstakingly hard, Illidan should’ve flew, broke earth and hunt you down, if you’ve beaten these guys then you can truly call yourself the best.
    Yes, let's pour money into stuff nobody or close to it will experience. This is a perfect business model... oh wait no it's crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    Not everyone needs to see Illidan or Deathwing,
    And not everyone should see the end of the movie even if they paid for it. Makes perfect sense to me... oh wait, no again.

    In short, get yourself an economy manual, please. Or better yet, if you want to be Elite, get a very well paid job, that will get you much more recognition in the society.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    So what you're really saying is that we should segregate players on artificial scales instead of just letting people do what they enjoy.

    No thanks.



  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    At least you know it's crazy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    So what you're really saying is that we should segregate players on artificial scales instead of just letting people do what they enjoy.

    No thanks.
    People were ALWAYS "able" to do what they enjoy. The problem is, some people enjoy things and don't expect (or think) there should be any required effort put into it.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    I'm so confused at what your trying to get acrossed with this thread....standing by for further clarification...
    look harder, not everything is fed through a tube :P

    and i'm not compromising just to get it across, why would I do that, for what good reason that benefits me? or you? for that reason>.>

  10. #10
    This was an... interesting read, to say the least. However, do sort of agree with what the OP is saying... I think. WoW's strength was always that it did a lot of things really well, even if no individual thing it was "best" at. Now, they've moved to a point where it's basically Raiding or PvP, and all roads lead to those things, instead of just having a truly robust world that feels equally rewarding for all aspects of the game. The "rewards" being a quality experience, learning to play better, and socializing, whereas today, the only rewards are increased stats.

    Also, I quite like the idea of progress also being a constant, gradual increase, instead of older content simply becoming obsolete. It's a shame that raids like Blackwing Lair and Karazhan are trivialized by the increased level-cap, because those were absolutely a ton of fun, and ultimately, that's what the game is about.

    Personally, I think raising level-caps is a huge reason that players have felt the need to adopt this "I have to finish the race first" mentality, because as we saw with Naxx-40 and Sunwell, if you don't see the content while it's relevant, there's a good chance you may never see it at all (Sunwell was wrecking raids well into Wrath, and pretty much until Cata). Instead of everything being a race, though, it should be savored, and by slowing the pace down, each of those raids can offer a totally unique experience.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
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    More people = Harder. Nice logic.
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  12. #12
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    I'm so confused at what your trying to get acrossed with this thread....standing by for further clarification...
    Yea it wasn't very clear to me either. Based on previous experience on this forum I have an idea but it's not clear in the text itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    look harder, not everything is fed through a tube :P

    and i'm not compromising just to get it across, why would I do that, for what good reason that benefits me? or you? for that reason>.>
    Were not asking you to compromise anything other than your ability to speak broken English and drone on with no clear thesis or statement. That you can afford to compromise on.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea it wasn't very clear to me either. Based on previous experience on this forum I have an idea but it's not clear in the text itself.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Were not asking you to compromise anything other than your ability to speak broken English and drone on with no clear thesis or statement. That you can afford to compromise on.

    Broken English? I showed this to some intellectual wow players in youtube and they agreed entirely. Broken connection between our way of thinking? Well that's starting to sound more right.

    I think the thread's just fine so I'll let you guys discuss it (Y).


    Also no not more players = harder, just more significance, and well in a way harder in a teamwork sense, its certainly more difficult if every member needs to be alive or the entire raid goes down hill. I know, I know 60 is extreme, but I was talking about Deathwing so it needed to be a bit extreme. Also who said you can't raid, you can raid lesser bosses in an instance if you're not that great or have a group with enough teamwork, but you'll get the reward you deserve of course and the guy who kills the hardest boss definitely smashes your face.

  14. #14
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    Broken English? I showed this to some intellectual wow players in youtube and they agreed entirely. Broken connection between our way of thinking? Well that's starting to sound more right.

    I think the thread's just fine so I'll let you guys discuss it (Y).

    Intellectual wow players is pretty good. I'll have to remember that one. Brevity is the soul of wit. Asking you to compromise on the bilge you wrote in your OP is a compromise worth doing if your serious about getting your idea across. If not then we can dismiss it with as much care as you took to write it. Not much apparently.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgesh View Post
    There are millions of people on this game all looking to be called the best.
    I got that far. There are a few thousand looking to be called the best AT MOST. I am even willing to go as low as a few hundred.
    Angels and Airwaves
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  16. #16
    Is this another "why is there an LFR" thread in disguise?

    If wow used a f2p model where you paid to unlock different difficulties I guarantee you the LFR difficulty level would pay for the content those that do heroic level difficulty are so set in defending. A game where such a high percentage pay for those elite few wouldn't last.

    It comes back to the old argument, why do you care what others do or have, if you have better anyway.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyRandom View Post
    Is this another "why is there an LFR" thread in disguise?

    If wow used a f2p model where you paid to unlock different difficulties I guarantee you the LFR difficulty level would pay for the content those that do heroic level difficulty are so set in defending. A game where such a high percentage pay for those elite few wouldn't last.

    It comes back to the old argument, why do you care what others do or have, if you have better anyway.
    It already pays for heroic raids. Without LFR heroic raids would still all be firelands size.
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  18. #18
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyRandom View Post
    Is this another "why is there an LFR" thread in disguise?
    That's what I think he's trying to say but it's so extremely poorly written it's hard to tell. I only reach that conclusion based on alot of the other people posting on this forum though. Even the title of the thread is the most broken ass english... "My crazy idea on How the games progression has always meant to be"
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    More people = Harder. Nice logic.
    Oondasta and Nalak!

    ...oh wait.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    That's what I think he's trying to say but it's so extremely poorly written it's hard to tell. I only reach that conclusion based on alot of the other people posting on this forum though. Even the title of the thread is the most broken ass english... "My crazy idea on How the games progression has always meant to be"
    This is just my crazy idea...... but I think you thought wrong. You're awesome btw

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