1. #1

    Simcraft - Stat Weights and 4 Piece

    Okay, so what I've been doing is looking at shamans that are somewhat close to my gear level and gemming according to how they have.

    I've recently been trying to min/max a little more and starting to use simcraft to scale my stat weights.

    I've never done this before so I'm still new at it and not sure I've done it right. I've read guides for dummies on it and I got my stat weights and set all the options according to how they set.

    Version: live
    Iterations: 10000
    Length: 450
    Vary Length: 20%
    Fight Style: HelterSkelter
    Target Level: Raid Boss

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Voltine/simple

    That is my armory currently.

    I've got my Cloak, 4 piece, and LMG.

    According to how I have gemmed and reforged currently, my stat weights according to SimCraft are:

    4.77 Int
    3.79 SP
    2.30 Mastery
    2.05 Haste
    1.85 Crit

    So if my stat weights are that, why wouldn't I try to gem Straight Intellect gems or Int/Mastery, instead of 320 Haste Gems or 320 Mastery Gems, etc.

    But I'm not sure if it is taking into account the 4 piece set bonus for us, or LMG. Can anyone help me out here?

    Not sure if I'm completely wrong on my gemming and reforging.

  2. #2
    Just try for yourself. Simcraft gives you the option to change the input.

    E.g. you can change 160 int gems to 320 haste/mastery and so on as often as you want. There's also the option for reforge plots - so you can see at which breakpoint haste/mastery gives you the best option.

    The stat weights change suddenly so if you e.g. gear everything for int > mastery > haste, haste might be your best stat. If you gear for haste > int > mastery, mastery might be your best stat.

    I could do the work for you, but in the end, the next item or trinket could change everything again and it's better if you learn to handle this kind of problem yourself.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistmonk View Post
    Okay, so what I've been doing is looking at shamans that are somewhat close to my gear level and gemming according to how they have.

    I've recently been trying to min/max a little more and starting to use simcraft to scale my stat weights.

    I've never done this before so I'm still new at it and not sure I've done it right. I've read guides for dummies on it and I got my stat weights and set all the options according to how they set.

    Version: live
    Iterations: 10000
    Length: 450
    Vary Length: 20%
    Fight Style: HelterSkelter
    Target Level: Raid Boss

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Voltine/simple

    That is my armory currently.

    I've got my Cloak, 4 piece, and LMG.

    According to how I have gemmed and reforged currently, my stat weights according to SimCraft are:

    4.77 Int
    3.79 SP
    2.30 Mastery
    2.05 Haste
    1.85 Crit

    So if my stat weights are that, why wouldn't I try to gem Straight Intellect gems or Int/Mastery, instead of 320 Haste Gems or 320 Mastery Gems, etc.

    But I'm not sure if it is taking into account the 4 piece set bonus for us, or LMG. Can anyone help me out here?

    Not sure if I'm completely wrong on my gemming and reforging.
    Just simmed you myself:

    Version: live
    Iterations: 25000
    Length: 350
    Vary Length: 0%
    Fight Style: HelterSkelter (I usually use light movement)
    Target Level: Raid Boss
    World Lag: Low
    Player Skill: Average

    Result:

    Int 4.65
    Mastery 2.35
    Haste 2.18
    Crit 2.05

    My guess is that your second trinket - the Shado-Pan-trinket - greatly reduces the worth of haste for your char.
    I have 2 RPPM trinkets and haste is my best stat.

    My stat weights (same profile, talents, etc.):

    Int 4.68
    Haste 2.45
    Mastery 2.27
    Crit 1.86

    Keep an eye on your stat weights and adjust your reforging and maybe even your gemming accordingly.

  4. #4
    Okay I could see that, even with your stat weights however, it has Intellect being almost double your haste value. So why would we gem 320 haste gems, and not 80/160 haste or if its a red slot, straight up 160 intellect considering how high that value is?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistmonk View Post
    Okay I could see that, even with your stat weights however, it has Intellect being almost double your haste value. So why would we gem 320 haste gems, and not 80/160 haste or if its a red slot, straight up 160 intellect considering how high that value is?
    You would not gem straight haste with those weights unless it was the highest value. You would gem for the highest total point value between your two choices (straight haste value vs best in socket gem + socket bonus value) On some pieces your socket bonus is something like hit or spirit, which could be completely 0 value for you, in which case a 320 gem would technically be the highest value vs a 160 int.

  6. #6
    You (and a lot of people) are confusing Scale Factors with Reforge values. While scale factors give you a sense of how much dps will change per stat, they are designed for gear upgrades, not maintaining constant ilvel. More important than the scale factors is the DPS number you get when changing your gear.

    I did simcraft on your current gemming, and gemming for intel > haste. For the intel gemming, red sockets got 160 intel, yellow got 80int/160 haste, and blue got 80int/160 spirit. Your boots were swapped from 320 haste to 160 intel, since the socket bonus of 60 spirit was unneeded for hit capping. This results in a 1440 intel gain at the loss of 2880 haste and 60 spirit.

    Here are your DPS numbers for 50,000 iterations, 450 seconds, Helter Skelter, Elite level:

    Your current gemming = 168844 theoretical dps

    Intel Gemming = 168472 theoretical dps. This is a virtually insignificant difference


    Just for further information, here are your relative scale factors:

    Current Gemming
    Int: 4.94
    SP: 3.99
    Haste: 2.26
    Mastery: 2.43
    Crit: 2.03

    Intel Gemming
    Int: 4.78
    Spell Power: 3.77
    Haste: 3.14
    Mastery: 2.47
    Crit: 2.0

    As one stat becomes higher, the other stats rise in worth and the disproportionate stat will drop in worth. This should NOT determine your reforge/gemming priority though, rather your upgrade priority (e.g. 522 cloak with haste/mastery vs. 528 cloak with crit/haste). Gemming/Reforging is the job of the reforge plot (which sadly can only do two secondary stats, not a secondary and a primary). Speaking of which,your reforge plot for Mastery/Haste at 10,000 iterations shows that your best solution is to drop about 1500 haste in favor of 1500 mastery. However, this would only increase your dps by about 516, which is virtually insignificant. It won't let me post the picture/link since this is my first post.


    If you want to analyze haste versus intel in a more accurate manner, your only solution is to go in and manually change your gems in simcraft one-by-one until you find the happy medium (which is likely to exist about half-way between your haste and int gemming values right now). In the mean time, I highly suggest you take a look at Binkenstein's March 24th blog post on totemspot.
    Last edited by jimmyolsen; 2013-07-22 at 04:43 PM. Reason: addendum to reforge plot

  7. #7
    Jimmy that was the best reply I've seen yet.

    That was a very well explained explanation and I very well appreciate it.

    And I did look at totemspot. I've done the reforge according to his 4204 + Mastery theory.

    Ended up pushing me about 300-400 haste more, but my mastery is up over 9k as well. Either way, I again appreciate it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistmonk View Post
    Jimmy that was the best reply I've seen yet.

    That was a very well explained explanation and I very well appreciate it.

    And I did look at totemspot. I've done the reforge according to his 4204 + Mastery theory.

    Ended up pushing me about 300-400 haste more, but my mastery is up over 9k as well. Either way, I again appreciate it.
    Bear in mind that Bink's post about the 4204 + Mastery was for a specific gear set-up (which he did not disclose). He specifically says, "Now, it's important to note that these are rough guidelines, and may differ from stat weights that you get with a particular gear set." I highly suggest you import your changes into simcraft and run a reforge plot for haste and mastery. On my previous simulation, I saw that you actually needed to DROP haste in favor of mastery.

    I just ran your reforges again, and the plot shows that your best possible dps is actually to cut about 600 haste in favor of mastery. Cutting more than 1500 will be a dps loss and adding any more haste would be a dps loss.
    Last edited by jimmyolsen; 2013-07-22 at 09:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Alright, will do, thanks

  10. #10
    Jimmy I approve your answers and this post!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyolsen View Post
    Bear in mind that Bink's post about the 4204 + Mastery was for a specific gear set-up (which he did not disclose). He specifically says, "Now, it's important to note that these are rough guidelines, and may differ from stat weights that you get with a particular gear set." I highly suggest you import your changes into simcraft and run a reforge plot for haste and mastery. On my previous simulation, I saw that you actually needed to DROP haste in favor of mastery.

    I just ran your reforges again, and the plot shows that your best possible dps is actually to cut about 600 haste in favor of mastery. Cutting more than 1500 will be a dps loss and adding any more haste would be a dps loss.
    Actually no, they're not for a specific gear set. There are a specific set of conditions though, being that you have 4pc T15, the Sinister meta gem, and are not a Troll. I never got around to looking at how Berserking affects it.
    Sentry Totem: The new community news and advice site!

  12. #12
    uhm, how can i change gemming in simcraft?

  13. #13
    Hi,

    i am not very familiar with simcraft and the theory of reforgeplots etc.
    English is not my native language and in addition the extensive use of those abbreviations makes it hard for me to understand it.

    What I have done so far to optimize my gear?
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte.../Cthuul/simple

    I ran my simcraft, I got my scale factors, I went to ask mr robot, edited the custom weights and then reforged according to him.
    In terms of those reforge plots, is this completely stupid? Or is it just a bid stupid? Or is it ok?

    Greetings
    Kigama

    Edit:
    I got my legendary cloak today, did the simcraft and now ask mr robot tells me, that i should go for +320 haste and 80int/160 haste gems.
    But i have the shadow pan trinket with static int-value and the 9000 haste-procc.
    I didn´t check it, but together with the legendary meta gem I am sure, that my lightning bolt goes below the global cd.

    What mr robot is telling me can`t be correct or?
    Last edited by Kigama; 2013-07-25 at 07:16 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kigama View Post
    Hi,

    i am not very familiar with simcraft and the theory of reforgeplots etc.
    English is not my native language and in addition the extensive use of those abbreviations makes it hard for me to understand it.

    What I have done so far to optimize my gear?
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte.../Cthuul/simple

    I ran my simcraft, I got my scale factors, I went to ask mr robot, edited the custom weights and then reforged according to him.
    In terms of those reforge plots, is this completely stupid? Or is it just a bid stupid? Or is it ok?

    Greetings
    Kigama

    Edit:
    I got my legendary cloak today, did the simcraft and now ask mr robot tells me, that i should go for +320 haste and 80int/160 haste gems.
    But i have the shadow pan trinket with static int-value and the 9000 haste-procc.
    I didn´t check it, but together with the legendary meta gem I am sure, that my lightning bolt goes below the global cd.

    What mr robot is telling me can`t be correct or?
    when you got new items you should run simcraft again as stats may have shift slightly.
    it is possible that haste is still stronger no matter that you get under gcd with a specific spell in some special situation. don't forget haste affects your fs ticks and what is important your procs that are ppm like meta, tot trinkets, weapon enchants. the shadow pan trinket has a fixed internal cd so you should replace it with some tot proc trinket anyway.

    I would however recommend binks "rule" for reforging. I did it and now my haste is ~ mastery in simcraft which I really like as I use very often CL in raid which benefits much more from mastery than from haste so going all haste would make me weaker in that situation. so I don't have the best stats for a specific situation but the best overall stats, well at least I think so^^

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