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  1. #1

    Combustion and HC trinkets ?

    So im fire mage with some HC progressing 10/13 atm. I have 541 at ilvl but no hc trinkets yet. Have Wushoolay's final choice TF and Cha-ye both full upgraded.

    So when both my trinkets pop on pull im only doing around 150k ignite so 75k combust.

    Sometime ago, i read a post in here asking about what ignite people get on combustion on pull and in the middle of the fight. The most people got atleast 200k ignite which i only get like 1 out of 20 pulls. In the middle of the fight i get around 100k combust if some trinkets proc.

    So do the hc trinket make that big different?

    armory: cant post links, but search for rixers on eu and you find me the only 90

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    Depends on what crits you get, the trinkets should make a difference, but it matters more if you get crits or not.

  3. #3
    Generally higher end trinkets allow us to pop Mage Armor on the pull, as the trinket proc will make up for the missing crit from it. It generally allows us to hit the much higher combustion. The bigger difference in combustion generally stems from Mastery, and naturally 3k extra mastery on a combustion is hot.
    Last edited by Jamesmarcus; 2013-07-21 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #4
    What ilvl would it be a good idea to start using Mage Armor on the pull?

  5. #5
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesmarcus View Post
    Generally higher end trinkets allow us to pop Mage Armor on the pull, as the trinket proc will make up for the missing crit from it. It generally allows us to hit the much higher combustion. The bigger difference in combustion generally stems from Mastery, and naturally 3k extra mastery on a combustion is hot.
    A wild Jamesmarcus appears!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Trolling will result in the loss of your forum posting privileges, and the removal of your genitals with my teeth while I hum Oasis songs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixers View Post
    So im fire mage with some HC progressing 10/13 atm. I have 541 at ilvl but no hc trinkets yet. Have Wushoolay's final choice TF and Cha-ye both full upgraded.

    So when both my trinkets pop on pull im only doing around 150k ignite so 75k combust.

    Sometime ago, i read a post in here asking about what ignite people get on combustion on pull and in the middle of the fight. The most people got atleast 200k ignite which i only get like 1 out of 20 pulls. In the middle of the fight i get around 100k combust if some trinkets proc.

    So do the hc trinket make that big different?

    armory: cant post links, but search for rixers on eu and you find me the only 90
    Even if you were to get HTF Cha the static crit would like .5% and the additional int on proc would give you a minuscule more also. You ha TF Woosh, the difference between that and HTF is a could hundred int plus the small amount of static from reforging the hit. So all in all on pull with both HTF double upgraded you maybe would have additional ~1.5% bit lets stretch it to 2% with CM. Yes this is indeed a nice little bump but I suspect not enough on its own to consistently boost your ignites ~30% as you said. Maybe look at your opener and fine tune it and if that's not the case then it is just RNG.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Even if you were to get HTF Cha the static crit would like .5% and the additional int on proc would give you a minuscule more also. You ha TF Woosh, the difference between that and HTF is a could hundred int plus the small amount of static from reforging the hit. So all in all on pull with both HTF double upgraded you maybe would have additional ~1.5% bit lets stretch it to 2% with CM. Yes this is indeed a nice little bump but I suspect not enough on its own to consistently boost your ignites ~30% as you said. Maybe look at your opener and fine tune it and if that's not the case then it is just RNG.
    Well i cant really see any problem with my opener it goes perfect 99/100 times, and i sure im not making any mistakes.
    Well its:

    7sec Evocation
    4sec Mirror images - Pot
    3sec Pyro
    Living bomb
    Fireball
    Fire blast
    Alter time (The macro you know - hands, pom..)
    alot of pyro
    and just before i use the the pom pyro i pop combust

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixers View Post
    Well i cant really see any problem with my opener it goes perfect 99/100 times, and i sure im not making any mistakes.
    Well its:

    7sec Evocation
    4sec Mirror images - Pot
    3sec Pyro
    Living bomb
    Fireball
    Fire blast
    Alter time (The macro you know - hands, pom..)
    alot of pyro
    and just before i use the the pom pyro i pop combust
    Just to be clear, you are waiting till you have a Pyroblast proc and a HU up before you hit your PoM/AT macro yeah?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Just to be clear, you are waiting till you have a Pyroblast proc and a HU up before you hit your PoM/AT macro yeah?
    Ye ofc, and if one of my trinkets aint popping ill whait as long as I Can to get it to proc.

  10. #10
    open with molten armor, use the 2nd pom on your alter time to switch to mage armor. easy top combustions.

  11. #11
    May work for some Klaps, but I've stuck to Mage Armor on the pull, and then switching to Molten on the 2nd PoM (rarely). Generally I just armorswap back after combustions hit. If you are having some real bad luck in the combustion setting up department, you may need the 2nd PoM to fish for procs. Also, remember travel time too. And then it's what Kenbud said, really. Have that HU proc at the same time. With the right level of gear (I'd say 535+ for armordancing, but it's quite needed for good trinkets also), you generally turn in to a Pyroblast machine gun.

    Also, don't wait as long as you can for trinkets. I think this is where you are going wrong. Get a manual res if you wipe to not reset RPPM. You kind of need to Combust with the meta gem activated, it's an extra 8 ticks (If you are forging frm the 5035 combustion breakpoint).

    I've found Wush to be pretty annoying in this context. If you hero on the pull, it's great as it's then possible to AT later.

    That being said, my typical opener is

    Precast MA

    Evo 7s, MI 4s, Pyro, Fireball/Blast/FB (Or FB/FB/Blast), to get HS and HU proc, hit PoM/AT, become a Pyroblast machinegun, I declick AT when my pyropulls have ran out, repeat, and combust.

    Remember to use your 2nd PoM Pyro as an oh shit button. I generally combust as this one is cast assuming that 2 of the previous Pyros have crit. PoM Pyro's lose the 25% increased damage, so.

    Hope it helps.

  12. #12
    That's exactly why I hate Fire. If you get shitty RNG you stand there with your 80k ish ignite and can go afk, because you won't do any damage later on -.-

    All those shiny logs on WoL are really nice. But you have to be really lucky to get up to those numbers. That's where I really begin to believe that Fire just is not as good as it is promoted everywhere. Last time I tried Fire my ilvl was arround 538 and I had like 60% crit on pyro (and I still managed to not get 2 crits in a row during my initial combustion combo).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    ilvl was arround 538 and I had like 60% crit on pyro (and I still managed to not get 2 crits in a row during my initial combustion combo).
    this is the exception, not the rule. at that ilvl (and crit % obv), more often than not, you should be getting some good ignites built assuming generally perfect play.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixers View Post
    So im fire mage with some HC progressing 10/13 atm. I have 541 at ilvl but no hc trinkets yet. Have Wushoolay's final choice TF and Cha-ye both full upgraded.

    So when both my trinkets pop on pull im only doing around 150k ignite so 75k combust.

    Sometime ago, i read a post in here asking about what ignite people get on combustion on pull and in the middle of the fight. The most people got atleast 200k ignite which i only get like 1 out of 20 pulls. In the middle of the fight i get around 100k combust if some trinkets proc.

    So do the hc trinket make that big different?

    armory: cant post links, but search for rixers on eu and you find me the only 90
    Rixers, how is your Weakauras set up when it comes to procs? Given your gear, I think it is simply a timing issue. If I can hit Ignites ticks of 200k-225k on the pull of Lei Shen (no bloodlust) with my 535 ilevel gear and while using Wush + Talisman of the Shandopan, you can at least get to 225k Ignites.

    Here is my Weakauras setup, which seems to make an important difference in my Combustions:

    Main group of procs (icons are bigger and positioned on my character's back): Bloodlust, Wush ligntning, Potion of Jade Serpent

    On a pull like Lei Shen (no Bloodlust), you will have the Wush lightning + Potion buffs, which is enough for you to reach 200k+ . But popping your Combustion sequence with AT when those 2 buffs are up is not sufficient. You need to wait for your Wush lightning to have less than 10 seconds remaining on the buff. This also depends on your level of crit. The more crit you have, the lower you can drop and the better your Combustion will be due to the stacking effect.

    Secondary group of procs (smaller icons, situated underneath the main group of procs): Legendary meta gem proc, Jade Spirit proc, Talisman of Shando Pan proc.

    This is kind of a net proc group. Sometimes my Wush just won't proc, and I have to use combustion within a few more seconds. I will turn to that group to time my Combustion.

    A fight like Tortos is a good exemple. When you see Call of Tortos and your Wush ligntning has not procced yet, you need to take a decision. Given that you Bloodlust at the start, you should have: Bloodlust, Potion of Jade serpent, and most likely Jade Spirit + Legendary meta gem proc. I just left out both my trinket procs here. Given that 4 buffs are up and that the Whirl Turtles are approaching you have to Combust. Your Ignite should still be around 125k-150k with these buffs and will tick quite often, partly making up for the trinkets not proccing. But the main goal here is to pop Combustion on the Whirl Turtles. If you miss that window, even if you can get a 300k Ignite with your tinket, it will not make up for the DPS loss on the turtles.

    Hope this helps

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    Rixers, how is your Weakauras set up when it comes to procs? Given your gear, I think it is simply a timing issue. If I can hit Ignites ticks of 200k-225k on the pull of Lei Shen (no bloodlust) with my 535 ilevel gear and while using Wush + Talisman of the Shandopan, you can at least get to 225k Ignites.

    Here is my Weakauras setup, which seems to make an important difference in my Combustions:

    Main group of procs (icons are bigger and positioned on my character's back): Bloodlust, Wush ligntning, Potion of Jade Serpent

    On a pull like Lei Shen (no Bloodlust), you will have the Wush lightning + Potion buffs, which is enough for you to reach 200k+ . But popping your Combustion sequence with AT when those 2 buffs are up is not sufficient. You need to wait for your Wush lightning to have less than 10 seconds remaining on the buff. This also depends on your level of crit. The more crit you have, the lower you can drop and the better your Combustion will be due to the stacking effect.

    Secondary group of procs (smaller icons, situated underneath the main group of procs): Legendary meta gem proc, Jade Spirit proc, Talisman of Shando Pan proc.

    This is kind of a net proc group. Sometimes my Wush just won't proc, and I have to use combustion within a few more seconds. I will turn to that group to time my Combustion.

    A fight like Tortos is a good exemple. When you see Call of Tortos and your Wush ligntning has not procced yet, you need to take a decision. Given that you Bloodlust at the start, you should have: Bloodlust, Potion of Jade serpent, and most likely Jade Spirit + Legendary meta gem proc. I just left out both my trinket procs here. Given that 4 buffs are up and that the Whirl Turtles are approaching you have to Combust. Your Ignite should still be around 125k-150k with these buffs and will tick quite often, partly making up for the trinkets not proccing. But the main goal here is to pop Combustion on the Whirl Turtles. If you miss that window, even if you can get a 300k Ignite with your tinket, it will not make up for the DPS loss on the turtles.

    Hope this helps
    Well i have all my trinkets and other Stuff a little left of the middle of the screen.
    I Cant really whait until whusa have 10 seconds left because then cha-ye wil, run out so im normally do alter time when there is 15 seconds back on whusa if it procs during pull. But when everything is up my max combustion with bloodlust is around 220k ingnite but thats only happens every 1 out 100

  16. #16
    Are you ensuring you hit combustion with Meta active, too?

    It just seems you get unlucky with your crits.

    Something that may work for you is a HS stack, HU, and PoM. AT that, hit Pyro 2-3 times, hoepfully 3 as you'll crit. 4 if not. And when you run out of instants, declick AT, and smash 1 until your instants go, then combust. Must just be that you are waiting 1-2seconds in a AT window without crits

  17. #17
    Are you a Troll? The Berserking buff inside the AT macro does help squeeze more Pyro! within the ''4 seconds'' Ignite window

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    Are you a Troll? The Berserking buff inside the AT macro does help squeeze more Pyro! within the ''4 seconds'' Ignite window
    No im Panda alliance

  19. #19
    So I recently got a H Wushoo but It doesn't tend to proc on the pull. My other trinket is a H TF Cha-ye's which always procs on the pull. I usually combust when I have Cha-ye's, jade spirit, pot and springs up. Is waiting for Wushoo's to proc better even if it means losing one or two of those procs?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Species View Post
    So I recently got a H Wushoo but It doesn't tend to proc on the pull. My other trinket is a H TF Cha-ye's which always procs on the pull. I usually combust when I have Cha-ye's, jade spirit, pot and springs up. Is waiting for Wushoo's to proc better even if it means losing one or two of those procs?
    You guys keep asking the same question, but with different words.

    Combustion is MOST IMPORTANTLY fight related, then it is proc related.

    On Lei Shen, you have time for 1 combustion before the transition. So there is no need to rush it really. Wait for WUSH, even if you have to wait 45 secs and your Combustion will be ready for phase 2. In that case, Cha-Ye is a bonus on top of WUSH if it procs together.

    On Tortos, you cannot do so. Cumbustion has to be done within the first 20 seconds of the fight. Hope for WUSH, but if it does not proc, go with Cha-Ye. And if neither proc, you will have to Combust regardless of procs. On the bright side, you should have Bloodlust and Jade serpent active for sure. If spreaded correctly on all Turtles, it will be just as good as a WUSH + Cha-Ye Combustion on Tortos only (no spreading).

    I don't know how you guys prepare yourself for encounters, but I hold a table for every boss with 6 key points. One of them being Combustion. It's written when to use it, how to abuse some mechanics with it, etc... If you join an encounter and think you will simply Combust whenever you have big ignites and it's not planned out, you will do subpar overall Combustion damage.

    I found it easier to master the Combustion timing first, then to move on to proc management.

    All this to say, that no you cannot wait too long for your procs, but sometimes you can stretch it out

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