1. #1

    which haste breakpoint? 540 ilvl

    title says the crux of what im getting at. 540 ilvl fire mage, 8/13h exp and consistently at the top of our dmg while still avoiding mechanics and not cheesing anything for ranks. i had been using the 6014(i think) breakpoint for the extra NT tick. is this worth it or should i be using LB anyway and therefore just gear at the extra glyphed combustion tick which is 5036 i believe. i would love some feedback from some pro mages. so basically....should i be using LB for single target fights? and which haste point should i gear to? i understand that that extra haste going into mastery can significantly boost my ignites/combustions especially on pulls.

    cheers

  2. #2
    5036 haste then go for mastery.
    And yes use LB for single target fights.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    5036 or 5487(if you are troll) are both solid breakpoints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    5036 or 5487(if you are troll) are both solid breakpoints.
    Why 5487 exactly? I've found as a troll it's best to go for 5042 because of the +30 tick glyphed combustion breakpoint at 6842 (5042 + 1800 from 2pc) when lust, berserking, and legendary meta are up.

    Edit: Nevermind I now notice the breakpoint at 7287 for just berserking and 2pc up. I feel like its probably best to go for 5487 only before you get legendary meta because the majority of my alter time combustions would include my meta proc making this breakpoint useless.
    Last edited by Foliuss; 2013-07-26 at 09:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foliuss View Post
    Why 5487 exactly? I've found as a troll it's best to go for 5042 because of the +30 tick glyphed combustion breakpoint at 6842 (5042 + 1800 from 2pc) when lust, berserking, and legendary meta are up.
    5487 is the same 30 tick glyphed combustion breakpoint but does not factor in the legendary meta or lust since you can not reliably account for it to be active when you combust. That figures on the 2pc, raid haste and berserking.
    You will cast on average at least 2 full CD combustions(AT+Zerking) during a fight, sometimes even 3 of them and only one of those will be during lust so I do not factor it in since up to 2/3rds of your full CD combustions will not benefit from it.

    At 5487 your ATed combustions will always get 30 ticks, always. On those if you have lust up and/or the meta procced that is just icing on the cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  6. #6
    Does this apply to a 524 ilvl fire mage aswell? Currently i'm sitting at 5783 haste (not troll).

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Does this apply to a 524 ilvl fire mage aswell? Currently i'm sitting at 5783 haste (not troll).
    No, without zerking(troll racial) that number holds no bearing to you.
    As a non troll you would be better off just sitting at the 5036 mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    5487 is the same 30 tick glyphed combustion breakpoint but does not factor in the legendary meta or lust since you can not reliably account for it to be active when you combust.
    In my personal experience I've found that I can pretty much guarantee a legendary meta proc for my first alter time combustion in the opener since it's an RPPM proc. Obviously there are certain occasions where you can only get a combust with only berserking and 2pc up, but I find that it doesn't happen often enough to justify the extra 455 haste that could be mastery.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foliuss View Post
    In my personal experience I've found that I can pretty much guarantee a legendary meta proc for my first alter time combustion in the opener since it's an RPPM proc. Obviously there are certain occasions where you can only get a combust with only berserking and 2pc up, but I find that it doesn't happen often enough to justify the extra 455 haste that could be mastery.
    You also figure on lust in your numbers, which I don't. You can only count on lust for 1 of those combustions.
    To ensure always getting 30 ticks, I don't see 455 more haste as a hefty investment.
    I know for a lot of people approaching or past the 540 Ilvl area(Most anyone with a couple heroic items and the cape) getting below 5.4k haste while reforging out of it is no easy task.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    5487 is the same 30 tick glyphed combustion breakpoint but does not factor in the legendary meta or lust since you can not reliably account for it to be active when you combust. That figures on the 2pc, raid haste and berserking.
    You will cast on average at least 2 full CD combustions(AT+Zerking) during a fight, sometimes even 3 of them and only one of those will be during lust so I do not factor it in since up to 2/3rds of your full CD combustions will not benefit from it.

    At 5487 your ATed combustions will always get 30 ticks, always. On those if you have lust up and/or the meta procced that is just icing on the cake.
    As a troll, with berserking, 2pc, raid haste,AT, how many ticks would your glyphed combustion get if you had less than 5487? 29 ticks instead? The difference between 29 and 30 ticks, doesn't seem that great either.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimme View Post
    As a troll, with berserking, 2pc, raid haste,AT, how many ticks would your glyphed combustion get if you had less than 5487? 29 ticks instead? The difference between 29 and 30 ticks, doesn't seem that great either.
    For such a small investment of stats, on certain fights it can be a big difference.
    Mostly fights where you can spread the combustion, like tortos, council, ion qon heroic, horridon and so forthe.

    I'm not saying people HAVE to go to that breakpoint, I am just saying that it is a viable breakpoint used by other members of the mage community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  12. #12
    I'm personally going to try 6135 this week as being a troll with meta, every second combustion (according to Mr Robot) it gives me:

    + 18 ticks on glyphed combustion
    + 11 ticks on nether tempest
    + 4 ticks on living bomb

    i.imgur.com / xR4J9wv.png

    Sure, the meta won't always be up, but as it's a fairly close call between mastery and haste already, I think it's a fair trade off.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    You also figure on lust in your numbers, which I don't. You can only count on lust for 1 of those combustions.
    To ensure always getting 30 ticks, I don't see 455 more haste as a hefty investment.
    I know for a lot of people approaching or past the 540 Ilvl area(Most anyone with a couple heroic items and the cape) getting below 5.4k haste while reforging out of it is no easy task.
    My point about the legendary meta has nothing to do with lust at all. On fights that you don't lust on the opener you should still have a meta proc for your opening alter time combust 95%+ of the time. Whenever you have meta proc + berserking you are going to get a 38 tick combustion whether you go for 5036, 5042, 5487, whatever. The ONLY time running 5487 will get you an extra tick over running 5042/5036 is when you have an alter time combustion that has neither lust or meta proc. My reasoning is that these combusts are not going to be very strong in the first place due to lacking the extra haste, so I would rather have the extra 455 mastery for my combusts that are stronger because they have a meta gem proc and/or lust.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    You also figure on lust in your numbers, which I don't. You can only count on lust for 1 of those combustions.
    To ensure always getting 30 ticks, I don't see 455 more haste as a hefty investment.
    I know for a lot of people approaching or past the 540 Ilvl area(Most anyone with a couple heroic items and the cape) getting below 5.4k haste while reforging out of it is no easy task.
    Yeah, depending on the setup we might be reforging everything with hit on it just to get to 15%, so we're not able to reforge that haste/hit item (good thing there aren't too many of those). Gets a bit better with the Ra-Den boots and belt.

  15. #15
    Blademaster KalarMage's Avatar
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    I'm sitting at 546/547 ilvl. My armory link should be in my signature. I've been shooting for the 7073 breakpoint for the extra tick of combustion, then putting the leftover into Mastery. Should I be trying for a different number?
    Two-Night 14/14hm pre-nerf recruiting for WoD!

  16. #16
    thanx for the feedback people! i'll shoot for 5036....even though ill prolly end up around 5.3k just cause of gear.

  17. #17
    The point in going for the 5036 point is that it is so few scenarios where you will get 1 extra tick on combustion that it is not really worth it, 1 tick of combustion is nothing compared to the loss of a higher average ignite throughout the fight and in general having a weaker ignite for combustion as well, you might get +1/2 combustion ticks, but they are going to be weaker cause you have less mastery.

    With all that said, even going for the 7k haste breakpoint is not going to loose you massive dps, certainly not at lower ilvls, but the higher ilvl you have the better mastery becomes and the 5036 breakpoint becomes really attractive.

    And about the bomb choice. The only fights(25m heroic) I personally use NT on are Horridon, Tortos and durumu. A case could be made about council, but i feel sul is going down early enough in the battle that its not a loss, considering ill gain another gcd to use on primary target, and once sul goes down there is only 3 targets.
    I guess some people will use it on Ji-kun, primordius and DA as well, but we have enough dot classes to handle that. Ji-kun NT would be nice if your guild is running nest groups tactics, and you for some reason get that assignment.

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