Thread: QQ Mage Racials

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  1. #21
    Cry me a river all the alliance racials are no where near as good as horde racials.

    Hardcore raiders go for the best to defeat bosses, and raiders follow the hardcore and everyone else follows the raiders
    ^ Main reason there are so much more horde than alliance, think back to when horde didn't have salvation or fear ward and remember which faction was more heavily populated

  2. #22
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xomniuri View Post
    Hardcore raiders go for the best to defeat bosses, and raiders follow the hardcore and everyone else follows the raiders
    ^ Main reason there are so much more horde than alliance, think back to when horde didn't have salvation or fear ward and remember which faction was more heavily populated
    Top 100 guilds in the world for T15: 27/100 were Alliance. First Alliance guild is ranked 7 (Hey, on my realm, too! )

    Source: http://wowprogress.com

    I think that data alone should prove your point further, and honestly, the devs need to stop this Horde favoritism for racials.

  3. #23
    I'm honestly surprised it's as many as 27.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Top 100 guilds in the world for T15: 27/100 were Alliance. First Alliance guild is ranked 7 (Hey, on my realm, too! )

    Source: http://wowprogress.com

    I think that data alone should prove your point further, and honestly, the devs need to stop this Horde favoritism for racials.
    It is very one-sided towards horde. Ally mages get the choice of Hit(lol big woop), larger mana pool(not terrible for arcane but nothing compared to horde racials or even back when it was int), Crit(Meh but still the best option on ally) or extra int from food buff(not counting this as an ally racial as both sides get it).

    None of those even come close to orc or goblin, let alone troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  5. #25
    I'm confused as to why you say Worgen (1% crit) is meh but Goblin (1% haste) is far and away better than all ally racials.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awildpidgeyappears View Post
    I'm confused as to why you say Worgen (1% crit) is meh but Goblin (1% haste) is far and away better than all ally racials.
    Because goblins are cool.
    Honestly though the two are pretty much on par with each other, but orc and troll are far better than any ally ones.
    Should of stated that differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  7. #27
    Draenai 1% hit is just as fine as gobs 1% haste - also having a 20% selfheal each 3mins, aint too bad to help out healers in pressed situations (but then again, gob's got rock-jump, which is quite nice)
    Worgen also have a 40% movement increase for 10 sec on a 3min cd (or is it even 2min?), that aint too bad either, optop of those 1% crit, which is double rating of what u get for being goblin and gaining 1% haste (600rating crit = 1 %, 300 haste rating = 1%). It's just that more classes in general, prefer more haste over crit, so gobs would still be the default choise for many classes, over a worgen..

    But hey, not trying in any way to defend that horde are OP racial-wise, cause we are. If u only think about dps, there is NO argue what's the obvious choise if u wanna rank high and help ya guild the most on progress. But some alli classes still got some nice additional race-specific survivability, which in some cases, can be considered even more powerful on heroic progression fights, than a tiny bit of ekstra dps (again it's also up to raid composition and what kinda dps u got in general in the raid)
    Last edited by Hasufer; 2013-07-24 at 08:43 AM.

  8. #28
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    [Bolded all the, well, more important shit. Left out 100% irrelevant things]


    Since it probably hasn't been said enough...


    Alliance
    - Human: 1% Expertise (Hit) when using Swords (Maces too for other classes), PvP Trinket (does work in most PvE things, too; more helpful than you'd think). [3% Spirit for other classes; should we get Hit from Spirit, this would actually make Humans an amazing choice]

    - Gnome: 1% Expertise (Hit) when using 1h Swords and Daggers (better than Human version because of Daggers), movement/root removal cooldown (pretty helpful; not as good as Human racial), 5% Mana pool (ONLY helpful as Arcane, and even then, it's not that great.

    - Night Elf: Mages get absolutely nothing combat worthy as a Night Elf, unless you count 2% Melee/Ranged avoidance when you're 'tanking' your Anima Golem.

    - Dwarf: 2m CD for 8s of 10% less damage (also removes poisons, bleeds, and diseases). [If Crack Shot also works with Wands, 1% Expertise (Hit) with Wands, but I don't think it counts]

    - Draenei: 1% Hit, and a 3m cooldown for a 20%HP15 HoT (not AS helpful as you'd think)

    - Worgen: 1% Crit, and a 2m speed increase cooldown.


    Horde
    - Orc: 2m CD for bonus Spellpower for 15s, and stuns last 15% shorter (does this work on PvE mechanics?). Also as Frost, your Wellybolt deals 2% damage (does this also work?)

    - Undead: 2m CD to remove Charm, Fear, and Sleep effects (significantly weaker than both the Human and Gnome usable racials), and a passive that occasionally makes you deal additional damage and heal for the same amount.

    - Tauren: 2m CD for a 2s AoE Stomp. Also, 5% increase to base health.

    - Troll: Bonus 5% damage to beasts, Berserking [3m cooldown for 10s of 20% bonus Haste, which lines up PERFECTLY with Alter Time, so it's more like 16 seconds], and 15% less duration on movement impairing effects (same with Orc, does this work on PvE mechanics?). Also 10% combat health regen, if you want to include that at all.

    - Blood Elf: 2m cooldown that does all of the following: Restores 2% Mana (only helpful as Arcane), AoE silences, and AoE interrupts on non-player targets.

    - Goblin: 1% Haste, 2m cooldown to shoot a rocket at an enemy, 2m cooldown to rocket jump.


    Neutral

    - Pandaren: +250-300 Intellect from food buffs, 2m cooldown to disorient a target, and less falling damage (as if that's at all helpful for us, haha)



    So I mean, Horde in general don't really have better racials, but... well, let's break it down (and remember, this is PURELY FOR RAIDING!!![/U][/B])

    [Please note that just because your specific race is low on the tier list does NOT mean you won't do well as a Mage. Higher tiers just have a small advantage (incredibly large advantage for "God Tier") over yours. These are also based on my personal judgement, so take it with a grain of salt if you want to theorycraft just how good each one really is]


    Tier List
    - Garbage Tier: Dwarf, Night Elf, Blood Elf, Tauren, Gnome (w/o Sword or Dagger) [Blood Elves and Gnomes get a slight bump between Garbage and Decent if you're playing Arcane. All 5 are on the lowest tier for good reasons, mostly being that they bring NOTHING significant enough to even give you a boost]

    - Decent Tier: Draenei, Human (w/o Sword), Gnome (with Sword or Dagger) [Draenei's heal isn't good enough to warrant going up to Good and neither is Gnome's Escape Artist because there are so few slows, and we can Blink out of roots. Human's PvP trinket alone puts it at the Decent Tier, but coupled with the 1% Hit bonus, it jumps up to the middle level. Also, if Dwarves' Crack Shot works with Wands, they would be brought up to this level with a Wand equipped]

    - Good Tier: Undead, Human (with Sword) [Not sure how well the Undead passive is. I'm placing it between the Decent and Great Tiers, unless someone can tell me how good/shit it is. Also, Human gets this spot because that PvP trinket is way more helpful than one would think. If you are playing a Human in ToT and aren't using it, shame on you because it's actually a DPS increase to break out of a few stuns that won't let you Blink/Blinking would put you in more danger!]

    - Great Tier: Orc, Worgen, Goblin, Pandaren [All 4 are put here on the high level tier because they have something that edges out ahead of the others. Pandaren is obvious because an extra 250-300 Intellect is quite a nice boost. Goblin and Worgen both bring 1% of a more-important-than-Hit secondary stat, as well as having fun/useful usable cooldowns. Orcs also land here because on-demand Spellpower boosts are quite nice for Mages, but not good enough to compete with the top tier. Also some things to note is that if Pandaren are not Well Fed before combat, they instantly drop down to the Garbage Tier, and the 2% Pet Damage for Orcs was NOT included in this scoring. Not only am I not sure if that even works, but it's only for Frost, which, well, if you care about Racials, chances are, you're not playing Frost in this tier anyways. Regardless, if Wellies do benefit from the 2% bonus, I'd put Orcs between Great and God Tiers, but only for Frost, obviously]

    - God Tier: Troll [Let's face it. Troll is the one and only race that belongs in the God Tier, and I'd even say God +1 Tier if you're Fire. Berserking is just incredible, but coupled with the 5% Damage on beasts, it's just too unfair. Every race should either be bumped up to Trolls, or Trolls should be brought down to near everyone else]


    Breakdown by faction
    - Alliance: 2.5 Garbage, 2 Decent, 0.5 Good, 1 Great (the .5s represent Humans or Gnomes using/not using their respective weapons)
    - Horde: 2 Garbage, 1 Good, 2 Great, 1 God
    - Neutral: 1 Great

    Hmmm, looking at it this way, I'd say Horde overall has a bit of an advantage now... Take it how you will, but I think EVERYONE will agree that Trolls at this point are such an outlier that they need a nerf or everyone else needs buffs (even without the 5% damage to beasts bonus)
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-07-24 at 09:45 AM.

  9. #29
    @Polar, I would even put orcs above worgen/goblin due to the fact that stacking CDs that increase combustion damage and can be affected by alter time are always going to scale exponentially with fire mages as having one more CD to stack will make for massive combusts. As well, the increased pet damage from orcs, while slight, is not something to be overlooked, every little bit helps.

  10. #30
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    @Polar, I would even put orcs above worgen/goblin due to the fact that stacking CDs that increase combustion damage and can be affected by alter time are always going to scale exponentially with fire mages as having one more CD to stack will make for massive combusts. As well, the increased pet damage from orcs, while slight, is not something to be overlooked, every little bit helps.
    I wasn't really sure about a few of the races. Orcs I kinda kept at the "High" level tier because I didn't want there to be 6 tiers as it'd look kinda weird. Also, I'm not 100% sure about the 2% Pet Damage actually working, so that was excluded from the overall score of it. The 1% Crit and 1% Haste from Worgens and Goblins are really good, on top of their helpful/fun cooldowns (hell, I probably would never have done Atramedes as well as I did back in BWD if I wasn't a Worgen then). Pandarens snag that spot because the Intellect boost is always nice, though people need to remember that if they don't have Well Fed, Pandaren instantly drop down to Garbage Tier.

    Anyways, I just went back and edited it a little bit. I included the part above that I said about Pandarens, and added that Frost Orcs (if the 2% damage does work) are between the top two tiers.

    Troll still remains as an untouchable outlier.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-07-24 at 09:46 AM.

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    The only reason Troll/Orc is better is due to stacking CDs, if you average out their buffs they're ~1% increases, same as all other racials.

    Aside from this tier (and any tier with beast bosses), the advantage of being Horde over Alliance is incredibly marginal.

  12. #32
    Ye, ToT really gave trolls an edge this tier, and I highly doubt we will see it any time soon, on more than perhaps a single boss in a tier. Would be some wierd logic seeing it's a huge advantage to be troll > all other classes on beasts, but u never know with blizz :P

  13. #33
    In heroic gear with Wush we're also straddling the hit cap or can't get below it, so the hit racials next tier might not even go to use. Probably just an issue with the huge amount of hit rating granted by that trinket though.

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire UR1L's Avatar
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    Solution: Roll best race. Use Tmorph to change your looks to preferred race. That's what I've been doing and my dps is happier for it.

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