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  1. #1
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
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    Mage Question from a Non Mage

    So mage / rogue is the only class I have never leveled to max so don't really have any insight to the end game. I see you guys doing just fine in WoL but routinely get in these LFR's, 5 mans and H Scenarios with mages doing pure shit numbers for their gear level (ie ilvl 480+ mages doing 50-60k). Are mages that massively gear dependent to do great numbers or is the community just flooded with unexperienced alts? I know melee classes are really weapon dependent and was just wondering if mages really needed great gear to do respectable dps.

    And no, my 10 man currently working through HM's has 0 mages so I have no grounds to base how decently geared mages do in a real raiding environment.
    Last edited by Clevername; 2013-07-21 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    I've seen people playing every class and spec so terribly shit that it makes me wonder how they got to 90. That's just how bad LFR can be. I recently came back from a break, playing Frost as item level 491 and while I definitely don't do great DPS I don't have an issue hitting the 100k.

  3. #3
    why would you judge a class based on random lfr/5mans/scenarios? just look at sims/top logs.

  4. #4
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    I've seen people playing every class and spec so terribly shit that it makes me wonder how they got to 90. That's just how bad LFR can be. I recently came back from a break, playing Frost as item level 491 and while I definitely don't do great DPS I don't have an issue hitting the 100k.
    I am in no way trying to bash mages I was just wondering how gear dependent the class is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    why would you judge a class based on random lfr/5mans/scenarios? just look at sims/top logs.
    was the point of the post I see great numbers from top geared mages, just was wondering if like other classes you needed a certain gear lvl / wep / trinket to do that great dps.

  5. #5
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    I am in no way trying to bash mages I was just wondering how gear dependent the class is.
    Fire is very gear dependent, Frost is much less dependent. I've never understood the concept of gear dependency though, gear is always the biggest factor in DPS provided you're playing your class the way you should.

    Edit: I know you're not trying to bash mages, I'm sorry. I was just using myself as an example because I consider myself massively undergeared.
    Last edited by Kver; 2013-07-21 at 02:06 PM.

  6. #6
    Fire needs a crap ton of crit rating to become viable. But boy when you get to that item level, fire just takes off. Frost is less gear dependent but also doesn't scale good with gear. Arcane not too sure about. I think it surpasses frost at high item levels possibly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    why would you judge a class based on random lfr/5mans/scenarios? just look at sims/top logs.
    Both of those are irrelevant this late in a tier. Top parses are just rank-whoring and padding.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Akraen's Avatar
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    In LFR mages don't use alter time properly. That's most of the DPS unfortunately.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    In LFR mages don't use alter time properly. That's most of the DPS unfortunately.
    One time I fat fingered Alter Time before all my trinkets proc'd. I was a sad panda

  10. #10
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    One time I fat fingered Alter Time before all my trinkets proc'd. I was a sad panda
    If that happens just cancel immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Trolling will result in the loss of your forum posting privileges, and the removal of your genitals with my teeth while I hum Oasis songs.

  11. #11
    Alex knows it is because most player in LFR are bad. Frost isn't very gear dependant u can pull good number but when u get a lot of crit it is time go fire irregardless of what anybody says. That's just Alex's opinion

  12. #12
    They're most likely just not using the level 90 talents/or are just terrible at keeping them up for the whole fight. Correct Alter Time usage doesn't double your dps.

  13. #13
    Most mages I've seen don't optimize their play for 5mans or scenarios where things can get frozen. I see a lot sticking with their raid rotations/builds/specs in non-raid areas. It doesn't take much either, just have to roll frost w/ Frost Bomb and time the shatters (though this is getting nerfed in 5.4).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.

    Nor is it against any rules to votekick a member from the group - one person can't do it, apparently someone agreed with the rogue.

  14. #14
    Keyboard Turner
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    Yes, item level helps mages, but so does effort and intelligence. I see too little of that in LFR.

  15. #15
    My Arcane mage is around that ilvl, with a 471 blue wand. 60k on most single-target fights, 100k+ on multi target. With a better weapon I could do better, but that's still about what I expect considering at this point in the expansion, most people are rerolling alts and don't have a full understanding of every class they play.

  16. #16
    Depending on the skill of the other members mobs may not stay alive long enough for some mages to get in damage. Mages need to ramp up, as most of our burst damage has long cooldowns. There has also been times where I have needed to hold back because the other members were not as geared/experienced and it is easy to pull a group, especially with everything dot cleaved, but it's not as easy to stay alive if the rest of the group can't support 'balls to the wall' play style.
    to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so

  17. #17
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Promark View Post
    Depending on the skill of the other members mobs may not stay alive long enough for some mages to get in damage. Mages need to ramp up, as most of our burst damage has long cooldowns. There has also been times where I have needed to hold back because the other members were not as geared/experienced and it is easy to pull a group, especially with everything dot cleaved, but it's not as easy to stay alive if the rest of the group can't support 'balls to the wall' play style.
    take greater invis when you have lesser geared tanks in lfr, and kite the trash with cone of cold in 5man.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    So mage / rogue is the only class I have never leveled to max so don't really have any insight to the end game. I see you guys doing just fine in WoL but routinely get in these LFR's, 5 mans and H Scenarios with mages doing pure shit numbers for their gear level (ie ilvl 480+ mages doing 50-60k). Are mages that massively gear dependent to do great numbers or is the community just flooded with unexperienced alts? I know melee classes are really weapon dependent and was just wondering if mages really needed great gear to do respectable dps.

    And no, my 10 man currently working through HM's has 0 mages so I have no grounds to base how decently geared mages do in a real raiding environment.
    Mages are fine at those Ilvls, Bad players just being bad.
    Also, Higher Ilvl doesn't mean Higher DPS. They could be getting bad stats on gear or worse, spirit gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    Are mages that massively gear dependent to do great numbers or is the community just flooded with unexperienced alts?
    As Fire, yes, Mages are INCREDIBLY gear-dependent, so much so, that Fire always gets OP as hell at the end of the expansion (Read: Lich King)

    If you see Frost Mages doing shit at that level, they're just playing incorrectly. Frost has a pretty good base damage, and scales like shit at higher gear levels, so they're good out of the box.

    Arcane... I'm not really sure. Arcane's pretty gear-dependent, but nothing close to Fire.


    PS: I've also seen Priests using Mind Sear on single targets. It's mostly just because the players you keep encountering don't know how to play

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Mages are fine at those Ilvls, Bad players just being bad.
    Except Fire*

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    Currently playing a White Mage/Bard in FFXIV and crying that I enjoy healer abuse

  20. #20
    Yes, item level helps mages, but so does effort and intelligence. I see too little of that in LFR.
    That could possibly be rephrased to "hardly ever see any of that. If any at all, then it's only on wedneysdays cause mains from raiding (heroic raiding guilds) join in, and that's mostly in beginning of a new patch :P" That's my experience at least, since lfr came out bk in DS.
    At least they fixed the horrible loot system which existed in cata. Almost always seemed to favour those that put no effort/dmg/healing into the raid at all. It was freaking redicoulous to watch a 10k dps rogue recieve a piece of loot, instead of the guy bringing 8% of the overall dmg or most of the healing oor the likes .. Thx for that at least blizz!
    The intellectual lvl and skilllvl of the ppl currently attending lfr's just seem to drop gradually. Dunno if it's the game and the "new" playerbase that has deteriorated, or human brains just deliberately choose to shutdown when faced with something as faceroll as LFR.
    Regardless, it's a pityful experience to join lfrs. But at least it reminds you of just how wonderful it is, to be in a decent guild, raiding under set circumstances, which capable ppl, able to not aoe on 1 mob, cause dmg is dmg! <3

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