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  1. #1

    So, overall are the frost mage changes a nerf or a buff to pve/dps in raids?

    Simple question. Are the changes going to end in a net gain or loss of dps in equivalent gear compared to now for frost?

  2. #2
    At the moment I believe it is a loss of dps from just reading various posts on the forums. That being said they are most likely going to play around with frost's numbers seeing as this is a completely new mastery and needs to be properly tested.

    I like the fact that they are trying to address problems with frost but a more serious issue with our scaling has to do with our haste and crit capping imo

  3. #3
    Yeah, they need to change quite a few things to frost before it can be fully viable. Fire still does need a nerf. Arcanes dmg is irrelevant because there is too much movement next patch.

  4. #4
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    Simple question. Are the changes going to end in a net gain or loss of dps in equivalent gear compared to now for frost?
    I spent a while on the PTR today and using my exact gear, reforges, etc., that I have on live I'm doing considerably less damage, probably 8-10%. I don't think stat priorities really change so this is concerning at this juncture in the PTR.

    I keep hearing there's more tweaking to come and I'm sure another numbers pass will fix it.

    I'm excited about how icicles work, but it's all for naught if we still don't scale in next tier's gear.

    I have done some of the new fights in SoO and the encounter design is irritating. I'm so tired of the constant movement in fights, the same balancing techniques used in encounter after encounter. Like tired enough to consider calling it quits after 8 years. But that's another topic for another day.

  5. #5
    I think Blizzard will end up trying to make it pretty neutral to how our current mastery is, when in actuality, it probably needs to be better than our current mastery for frost to stay competitive.

  6. #6
    And yet... Mages are simming at the top...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    Simple question. Are the changes going to end in a net gain or loss of dps in equivalent gear compared to now for frost?
    How mastery is atm on PTR, it's weaker than our current mastery on Live, They seem to be combating this with Icelance buff, but it really doesn't solve the problem of scaling at all, makes it even worse infact. But it's the first patch with the new mastery, so it's bound to be changed I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baelic View Post
    And yet... Mages are simming at the top...
    And yet mage sims have been broken since 5.0

    Not saying our damage ain't high/too high as fire, but sims are really bad to compare mages atm.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baelic View Post
    And yet... Mages are simming at the top...
    can you share this sim build?

    because afaik there isnt a build for the new frost mastery yet.

  9. #9
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
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    They don't need to redesign the mastery, they need to make it so switching targets or moving a lot as Frost isn't a terrible experience with the 15% damage loss.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelic View Post
    And yet... Mages are simming at the top...
    This is 5.4 frost mastery thread in no way, shape or from will a frost mage sim anywhere near the top, even on Live. So i see you are just wanting something to complain about so may i suggest rogue pvp buffs? Ele pvp Buffs? Disc buffs? Lack of Rsham pve buffs? All these are much more concerning to me. Taking a class that is admittedly in a very good spot in pve with 2 specs but having the third be unplayable next tier and nerfing it even more because people whine and cry and bitch and moan about said spec in pvp? Its bullshit. Frost in pvp is in a very good place but as far as OPness goes there are multiple classes/specs that are more out of control.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    They don't need to redesign the mastery, they need to make it so switching targets or moving a lot as Frost isn't a terrible experience with the 15% damage loss.
    Didn't they remove that damage component of the debuff in the last PTR-notes update?

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Frostbolt no longer causes the target to take an additional damage from Frostbolt.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koltak View Post
    Didn't they remove that damage component of the debuff in the last PTR-notes update?


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Frostbolt no longer causes the target to take an additional damage from Frostbolt.


    only from frostbolt, but it still increase Waterbolt and Icelance damage.
    The answers is 42
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  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    I can only hope it's nerf. It's been a running joke for a while now that the class that has some of the most CC in PvP, also happens to be the best DPS in the game both in PvE and PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    I can only hope it's nerf. It's been a running joke for a while now that the class that has some of the most CC in PvP, also happens to be the best DPS in the game both in PvE and PvP.
    Some of the best CC? Depends on how far down the list you get and can still be consider "some of the best". Best DPS in PvE and PvP? Absolutely false. You quite obviously get blown up by mages and therefore think they need to be nerfed. 3v3 is what PvP is supposed to be balanced around, go watch some 2300+ streams and tell me if you see mages blowing people up like they do in the 1500 brackets. The answer not very often becasue good players easily counter mage burst i.e Frost Bomb in a deep, without that mage burst is sub par. Most high rated mages don't even use Frost Bomb because it is instantly countered. There are many classes at the hands of a skilled player that can shut a mage down and 5 or 6 spec/classes that can burst harder. And as for PvE Assassin Rogues and Demo Locks are behind Arcane but ahead of Fire, so we are not THE best. Also we have almost no utility (unlike locks and rogues who have huge utility are also the top dps classes...hmmm) but before you start in calling me bias i can easily say mages are in a very good place all around, 2 of the top 5 PvE specs and 1 of the top 5 PvE specs but we dont need a PvP nerf in the slightest (PvE fire remains to be seen) so go QQ on a none mage forum or learn to PvP better so we don't have to read it. Maybe head over to the Rogue forums and post about how they need even more buffs for 5.4 at least then this wont be the most stupid thing that iv read today today.

  15. #15
    currently from what I have been seeing on the PTR I believe it is a loss. Hopefully blizzard buffs the mastery a bit. Currently the only way I can see it working is to gem/gear like an arcane mage and twist in some haste here and there.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." -Alexander Tytler

  16. #16
    The bigger loss is from frostbolt damage itself in general. Since they removed the damage stacking component from frostbolt debuff affecting frostbolt and having yet to compensate for it we will be lower then normal. Even with the buff to icelance it doesn't compensate enough.
    Last edited by Leviatron; 2013-07-20 at 10:27 PM.

  17. #17
    None of this matters because it looks cool! right guys?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Leviatron View Post
    The bigger loss is from frostbolt damage itself in general. Since they removed the damage stacking component from frostbolt debuff affecting frostbolt and having yet to compensate for it we will be lower then normal. Even with the buff to icelance it doesn't compensate enough.
    You have it backwards. Ice lance was nerfed, Frostbolt was buffed.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickspoon View Post
    You have it backwards. Ice lance was nerfed, Frostbolt was buffed.
    No. The stacks no longer increase FB damage, only Ice Lance and Water Ele damage. Lance got a 29% buff and Ele got 9% overall. So no he didn't have it backwards.

  20. #20
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897#mage

    PTR mage patch notes as of July 18.

    The mastery is amazing don't get me wrong. (I'm not saying just for looks) I much prefer this over frostburn because this helps balance our what use to be insane pvp burst and our poor pve scaling, although our pve scaling was temporarily fixed with the band-aid changes to bombs. Just the damage loss on frostbolt, icelance (the 29% is nice, but a dps loss at higher gear levels), and frostfire bolt (no increased damage from brain freeze [frostburn] procs) is an over all loss. It might not be that big of a loss with how the mastery: icicles works as a natural damage gain, but it is there. This is just the perfect opportunity for Blizzard to help Frost mages with target switching issues which is going to come up a lot looking at some of these new encounters.

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