1. #1

    Enhance Haste or Mastery? (PvE)

    Hi there, so I just levelled my shaman and now I'm gearing it up for raiding currently getting mainly heroic gear with some RF drops, Which stat should I be prioritising after Hit and Exp 7.5? because I see that some shamans go Haste some go Mastery, is that just personal preference or is there a point at a certain ilvl where one becomes better than the other? Help is much appreciated thanks.

  2. #2
    t15 4 part and 2 ToT trinkets= haste is better, even to the point where 2 haste beats 1 agi

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengiratolom View Post
    ...even to the point where 2 haste beats 1 agi
    Where are you getting that info? I haven't seen it yet, personally.

  4. #4
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    Where are you getting that info? I haven't seen it yet, personally.
    Sim it with different gear sets. It happened for me back at 510 ilvl because I had both the trinkets.

    @OP mastery for now. 4set is irrelevant for the most part but you haste will overtake mastery when you get a couple RPPM trinkets (subject to change next patch), 2 haste can overtake 1 agi when you have renataki's, bad juju (or shadopan trinket), and the legendary meta. It'll be close either way at this point and worth simming.

    It's not so much Ilvl related as much as key item related. Naturally if your trinkets are lagging behind you will be using mastery for longer even at 520 ilvl possibly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  5. #5
    Haste has been designed to make "everything" faster. The legendary metagem + 2 rppm trinkets proc rates are impacted by haste, making them proc more. They're powerful items (which is why they're valued so highly on BIS lists) so you're going to be seeing over-representation of those procs in haste heavy builds, ergo more DPS.

    This is essentially true for all classes right now, once you get to a certain set of gear you're chasing haste.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Sim it with different gear sets. It happened for me back at 510 ilvl because I had both the trinkets.

    @OP mastery for now. 4set is irrelevant for the most part but you haste will overtake mastery when you get a couple RPPM trinkets (subject to change next patch), 2 haste can overtake 1 agi when you have renataki's, bad juju (or shadopan trinket), and the legendary meta. It'll be close either way at this point and worth simming.

    It's not so much Ilvl related as much as key item related. Naturally if your trinkets are lagging behind you will be using mastery for longer even at 520 ilvl possibly.
    shadopan trinket isn't RPPM, it uses the old proc mechanism, and no 4p isn't irrelevant it has an impact on your haste value, less so then 2 ToT trinkets, but can be enough to push haste beyond 0.5 agi per point depending on the rest of the gear. Granted the sim results where when i used shadopan+bad juju (1 rppm one not) and having 4 set barely made haste overtake .5 agi, without 4set mastery was still ahead of haste @ that point (ever so slightly below .5 agi per mastery)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Sim it with different gear sets. It happened for me back at 510 ilvl because I had both the trinkets.
    Was that irrespective of the troll racial?

  8. #8
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    Was that irrespective of the troll racial?
    I am a goblin, which may have had some benefit with the passive haste. Not as much as the troll racial though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  9. #9
    Edit: math is hard.
    Last edited by Embermoon; 2013-07-22 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Sim it with different gear sets. It happened for me back at 510 ilvl because I had both the trinkets.

    @OP mastery for now. 4set is irrelevant for the most part but you haste will overtake mastery when you get a couple RPPM trinkets (subject to change next patch), 2 haste can overtake 1 agi when you have renataki's, bad juju (or shadopan trinket), and the legendary meta. It'll be close either way at this point and worth simming.

    It's not so much Ilvl related as much as key item related. Naturally if your trinkets are lagging behind you will be using mastery for longer even at 520 ilvl possibly.
    Haste beating out our main stat agil by that much just doesn't sound right....even with the right trinkets....sims may say it but that doesn't necessarily mean its the same in game, remember that sims don't account for movement or aoe which mastery benefits more, plus they take advantage of every second so stuff like MW5 and hasted procs get more highly valued, along with all hits landing so hasted melee swings get more value......in some fights this is true but not all.

    I would personally aim for a certain %haste that you feel confident about and then stack mastery instead of only stack mastery or only stack haste. Not sure what the magic number is for haste since we don't have haste caps but you can prob figure out a solid number.

  11. #11
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Haste beating out our main stat agil by that much just doesn't sound right....even with the right trinkets....sims may say it but that doesn't necessarily mean its the same in game, remember that sims don't account for movement or aoe which mastery benefits more, plus they take advantage of every second so stuff like MW5 and hasted procs get more highly valued, along with all hits landing so hasted melee swings get more value......in some fights this is true but not all.

    I would personally aim for a certain %haste that you feel confident about and then stack mastery instead of only stack mastery or only stack haste. Not sure what the magic number is for haste since we don't have haste caps but you can prob figure out a solid number.
    While I recommend others to generally stick to mastery for longer the only enjoyment I get out of this game most of the time is beating my own personal records. If haste is what does that (and it made a significant difference at the time), then I will run with that. The less forgiving the more rewarding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    remember that sims don't account for movement or aoe which mastery benefits more, plus they take advantage of every second so stuff like MW5 and hasted procs get more highly valued, along with all hits landing so hasted melee swings get more value......in some fights this is true but not all.
    Actually there are settings for every single one of those things. Every sim defaults to patchwerk, which is a light movement fight. You can set to high movement, training dummy, light AOE etc. You can account for lag, misses, it's all there.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchetman240 View Post
    Actually there are settings for every single one of those things. Every sim defaults to patchwerk, which is a light movement fight. You can set to high movement, training dummy, light AOE etc. You can account for lag, misses, it's all there.
    I thought patchwerk was a zero-movement assumption, on the part of the simc. I recall seeing a separate "light movement" setting.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sengiratolom View Post
    t15 4 part and 2 ToT trinkets= haste is better, even to the point where 2 haste beats 1 agi
    Whatever this guy said . Else you just go for balanced haste/mastery with a bit more mastery .
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  15. #15
    Patchwerk on SimC means a standstill no movement fight. There are separate options for movement if you feel so inclined to sim that way.

    As for Haste overtaking Agility: I found this true on my shaman after reaching approximately 520 ilvl, once acquiring two RPPM trinkets and the legendary meta. I now gem straight Haste, with a couple hybrid Haste/Agility. For those using simc, remember that scale factors tell you the scaling weights of stats in your current gear; however they don't necessarily tell you if you should sacrifice one stat for another. If you're uncertain about whether you should start prioritizing Haste over Agility, try a reforge plot between the two stats (ie. sacrificing agi gems for haste gems), this should give you a more accurate answer.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Haste beating out our main stat agil by that much just doesn't sound right....even with the right trinkets....sims may say it but that doesn't necessarily mean its the same in game, remember that sims don't account for movement or aoe which mastery benefits more, plus they take advantage of every second so stuff like MW5 and hasted procs get more highly valued, along with all hits landing so hasted melee swings get more value......in some fights this is true but not all.

    I would personally aim for a certain %haste that you feel confident about and then stack mastery instead of only stack mastery or only stack haste. Not sure what the magic number is for haste since we don't have haste caps but you can prob figure out a solid number.

    You can sim adds, movement and what not. In fact I plugged in my char in simcraft for light movement, helter skelter and heavy movement and the results tended to boil down to: 2mastery > 2 haste > 1 agi albeit very close to each other.

    I then ran a reforgeplot between mastery and haste on a light movement fight (simming reforge plots take too much time to run the other 2 setting as well) to see if it would be beneficial to reforge some haste into mastery but depending on the amount of switched stats I'd lose damage or in the best case break even.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  17. #17
    I know this comment is gonna be somewhat irrelevant, because the OP wants to know which is better, but at 542 ilvl, I on a whim reforged to Mastery and gemmed haste. I'm pulling the same DPS, it feels like a little bit more. Just gem and reforge haste, and when you get the two trinkets and your four piece, puts 320 haste's in prismatics and yellows. The difference is not significant.

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