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  1. #121
    I don't cry for sub coz i know it will NEVER be viable as long as its CP builder has a nasty and outdated positional req .
    Last edited by D3athsting; 2013-07-30 at 08:20 PM.

  2. #122
    @Warstar: can you link your armory (or wol) please, I want to see how much of what you say is backed up with results.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    But then what happens when combat numbers are above assasination?
    Ideal situation would be:

    Combat Vs. Assassination each is able to top meters on different fights due to different mechanics but over all the numbers are a lot closer than they are now.

    But aside from spammy vs non-spammy the classes really do have very similar dps outputs except that combat doesn't have it's niche anymore since it was nefed to the ground. Assassination has a strong strong strong leap over combat in that if assassination has to get off the target or move or whatever stop dpsing our poisons keep ticking and rupture keeps ticking procing venemous wounds which for combat all of that is very minor compared to assassination. Combat lost it's cleave niche so it doesn't really have something that kicks it ahead of assassination in any situation. Maybe cleave for a bit but unless you have a shared HP boss or a situation where you can stay cleaving for most of the fight blade flurry is pretty bad.

    Combat needs it's single target raised up, aoe damage fixed and blade flurry reverted or fixed in some other way.

    Lets say there's a fight that requires a lot of movement and less up time on the boss, assassination should win.

    Cleave mechanic? Combat should win if it's cleave is fixed.

    Mass aoe fight? Assassination should win but combat needs it's damage brought up still since if you look at 25H tortos you have to go to the 3rd page of assassination rogues before you find one comparable to the top combat rogue and even farther to the average higher dps combat pulls on tortos.

    Single target patchwerk style fight combat should nudge out ahead single target since assassination gets a boost on mobility.

    Compare that to now when it's all assassination even on cleave since their single target is so good and spreading ruptures around boosts that even higher. The only thing combat is good at it's really not that good at.

    Bandit's guile is too punishing on fights that require a lot of movement or loss of up time on a boss causing it to reset. It's similar to moonkin's old eclipse with how punishing it used to be for a moonkin to have to move during a fight. It's ramp up time is just too slow.

    Restless blades should just be removed from the game or baked in to be a passive CD reduction and then balanced around that. Being based around an ability that makes any loss of up time on a boss is detrimental to any movement fight. And on the flip side if you compensate it makes a patchwerk type fight insane for combat.

    All in all though both specs should be playable with different niches but still similar dps which is by far not the case now. If combat was just a little couple % behind assassination that'd be different. Sure you might not beat them every time but you'd be tickling their back side and if they screwed up you'd pass them. Although now if an assassination rogue screws up a little not much happens and he'd still probably stay ahead but if combat messed up they'd get lost in the gutter.

  4. #124
    Combat is still one of if not the highest melee dps on sustained 2 to 3 target cleave even post BF nerf. There just isn't much sustained 2 to 3 target cleave this tier.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

  5. #125
    Sub is not "a pvp spec". Also note that sub already has a core mechanical difference in PvP and PvE- find weakness.

    Sub's sustained damage in PvP is bad. Sub could use damage buffs in general, though for PvP you might want to keep the majority of that damage not inside dance.


    I think that all three specs should have PvE niches. I don't think blade flurry should be a cooldown again (combat has plenty of cooldowns). I think blade flurry should be buffed (probably by a good amount), and there should be some manner of way to address excess energy that makes sense within game (such as a powerful move that is inefficient, or a move off global such as revealing).

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    ) I think blade flurry should be buffed (probably by a good amount), and there should be some manner of way to address excess energy that makes sense within game (such as a powerful move that is inefficient, or a move off global such as revealing).
    Or maybe they can make sinister strike use more energy but hit harder! (It still kinda blows my mind that this was ever considered)

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Combat is still one of if not the highest melee dps on sustained 2 to 3 target cleave even post BF nerf. There just isn't much sustained 2 to 3 target cleave this tier.
    Is there next tier? I haven't had a chance to look ahead seriously yet - but if there isn't, then since they "fixed" it, it hasn't put combat at the helm for the entire duration of the expansion since being "fixed" to work well (but not OP) for a niche that doesn't exist.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Is there next tier? I haven't had a chance to look ahead seriously yet - but if there isn't, then since they "fixed" it, it hasn't put combat at the helm for the entire duration of the expansion since being "fixed" to work well (but not OP) for a niche that doesn't exist.
    well ive seen some fights from SoO and there are realy not many bosses with with adds involved i've seen 2 i think sofar where combat might see a use or not because certain mechanics just screw the entire fight
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Combat is still one of if not the highest melee dps on sustained 2 to 3 target cleave even post BF nerf. There just isn't much sustained 2 to 3 target cleave this tier.
    I don't think its reasonable to just leave casters out of that as we compete with ranged dps for spots just like we compete with other melee classes for spots.

    Also isn't BF on 1 additional target only an 8% dps gain or did something change since I saw that initial estimate way back on EJ when they first switched it? Not that 8% isn't decent, but if 2-3 targets is going to be combat's niche, it needs to be better than that.

  10. #130
    Gc replied to my tweet, he's looking at buffing it

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindsides View Post
    Gc replied to my tweet, he's looking at buffing it
    Referring to this tweet?
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...64287651921920
    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler

    @HatredAU We wish Combat were closer, yes. In 5.2(?), we wanted to nerf C's cleave and buff their ST, but don't think we buffed it enough.

  12. #132
    It is hopeful that they recognize they failed tuning combats damage in 5.3. I just hope they don't go easy on those fine-tuning buttons for 5.4.
    Last edited by Shinob1; 2013-07-31 at 08:49 AM.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilate View Post
    Yep! There is hope!

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindsides View Post
    Yep! There is hope!
    what hope screwing us over again ? everyone complained about combat being mandatory on some fights 2 or 3 out of 16 ! blizzard s reaction " NIIIIIERRRRRRFFFFFFFF" now everyone is playing assa for obvious reasons

    i hope they dont screw us over again i smell assa nerfs
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  15. #135
    After reading last tweet all that comes to mind is:
    http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3vcqf5/

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    After reading last tweet all that comes to mind is:
    http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3vcqf5/
    comes to my mind

    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  17. #137
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    snip


    Fix'd

    On topic, tweets from today regarding combat and our "overhaul":

    @HatredAU: Have you guys got any plans to look at making combat the top rogue spec? playing mostly assass for 3 patches is getting old!
    ‏@Ghostcrawler: We wish Combat were closer, yes. In 5.2(?), we wanted to nerf C’s cleave and buff their ST, but don’t think we buffed it enough.
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...64287651921920

    @HatredAU: why are you evading all rogue questions ? The class has had nearly no attention throughout mop, less than Shaman!
    @Ghostcrawler: Because we’re pretty happy with rogues. We did make several talent changes throughout MoP.
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...62633485533184

    @Trilumigon: You mentioned agreeing rogue specs need to be looked at. Any thing to discuss currently? Warlock level rehaul in the future?
    @Ghostcrawler: Unlikely to be at the warlock level with vastly different resources.
    ‏@Ghostcrawler: More on the table would be something like one spec has Rupture, one uses Recuperate rotationally, and one uses SnD.
    ‏@Ghostcrawler: Note that is GC random musings, not any kind of official announcement.

    https://twitter.com/Trilumigon/statu...87364678598656

  18. #138
    I'm not going to comment those tweets, risk of getting an infraction is sooo high...

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    I'm not going to comment those tweets, risk of getting an infraction is sooo high...
    Well said.

    "we're pretty happy with rogues" bugs me more than a lot. If you're happy and the rogue community isn't, maybe there is some kind of issue.

    I'm thinking that the only solution is no one playing the class anymore, but we're still here playing our mains and discussing about specs and trinkets.

  20. #140
    Happy with rogues isn't good enough. People are fleeing the class, so something is clearly wrong, and even if they were happy with us as a class, they can't be even remotely happy with our specs. The absolute lack of attention that the class gets it almost inexcusable for a multi-billion dollar company.

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