Have you seen this article?

[zealo]

Some people have issues admitting their own shortcomings, this is not something related to gaming alone and should just be ignored. Turn of the chat channels if solo queueing in games and you will have a more enjoyable experience even if the people you play with do badly.

[Sousoulsu]

And this is why I don't do PvP gaming and turn off all ability for turbonerds to rage at me in PvE. Cos I play for fun, not to hear their emowhining BS. They don't like it, they're free to leave.

Also, I think I'll just leave this here for you.

"People who want a bad player to improve in a team-based activity are losers"
Okay, whatever. I'll be getting better at things I spend a lot of time on - whereas those players will be having fun not progressing.

I read up until he used profanity If you'd like me to read it then I would but I can assure you that my defense will still be the same. Why? Because I personally know people who don't care about having "superior skill". I tell them all the time if they watch this video or read these guides they can play better but they never do it, they are having their fun lol.

- - - Updated - - -



I would imagine that they are trying to convey that they don't care about playing better as long as they are *deletes having fun* enjoying themselves ( ) then they are happy.

You either haven't read it or this is a reading comprehension problem of yours.
What people are REALLY saying when they say "I play for fun" after they lose: “You play the game more than me. You study the game mechanics. You play the game with a competitive edge. Those are the only reasons you can beat me. If I took the game seriously and put as much effort into playing as you do, I would embarrass you.”

You aren't understanding the context. Nobody seems to be.
I'm really sorry if I come off as rude/obnoxious - but I've been browsing this thread for a while now and it's simply infuriating how many people can look at the title of an article and think they can extrapolate the entire thing from the title.

[Drusin]

"People who want a bad player to improve in a team-based activity are losers"
Okay, whatever. I'll be getting better at things I spend a lot of time on - whereas those players will be having fun not progressing.

...uhh yup lol that's exactly what's going to happen. You're going to have your fun and they are going to have their fun and if I was a betting man i'd say it probably be an equal amount of fun.



Don't get me wrong i'm with you guys, I watch multiple videos about how to play a certain spec, I read guides from different sources, do my own personal testing to see how it feels, I even listen to guides in the background while i'm in LFR on other classes i'm more comfortable with like they are some kind of audio tape for a harry potter book. I love getting better that's how I have my fun, but not everyone does and I can accept that. I can also accept that some people suck, and either refuse to seek assistance or just don't know what to do. I help as many people as I can because i'm a nice guy but it's dangerous sometimes because people will flip out on me lol.

[Sousoulsu]

...uhh yup lol that's exactly what's going to happen. You're going to have your fun and they are going to have their fun and if I was a betting man i'd say it probably be an equal amount of fun.

Which is entirely irrelevant to what the article is about.
That isn't even the situation it's talking about.
How is this a difficult concept?
Is this willful ignorance, or genuine stupidity?

Don't get me wrong i'm with you guys, I watch multiple videos about how to play a certain spec, I read guides from different sources, do my own personal testing to see how it feels, I even listen to guides in the background while i'm in LFR on other classes i'm more comfortable with like they are some kind of audio tape for a harry potter book. I love getting better that's how I have my fun, but not everyone does and I can accept that. I can also accept that some people suck, and either refuse to seek assistance or just don't know what to do. I help as many people as I can because i'm a nice guy but it's dangerous sometimes because people will flip out on me lol.

That is still not the situation the article is about.
I think this is the point where you cut it out and get a "nice try".

I'll just go ahead and stop posting after this - but wow. Jeez. This is...Wow.
I thought people would be a bit more contemplative on a forum for an MMO.

[Drusin]

You either haven't read it or this is a reading comprehension problem of yours.

Like I said, I read up until he used profanity Which would be:

"Synopsis: Humans have a biological urge to compete and win. From it, “I play for fun” was born, the idea that those who play video games with a greater intensity than others are not enjoying themselves. "

[Granyala]

You aren't understanding the context. Nobody seems to be.
I'm really sorry if I come off as rude/obnoxious - but I've been browsing this thread for a while now and it's simply infuriating how many people can look at the title of an article and think they can extrapolate the entire thing from the title.

Like me, some people are probably annoyed by his writing style.

Some will just be annoyed by the sheer length of his text, since peoples tolerance for long texts in the Internet seems to be very low. Not just here on MMO-C, I see that mindset pretty much everywhere on the net. That's why most writers put a "TL-DR" summary up these days.

After reading it whole I seriously ask myself, why the dude needs so many words to describe something so simple.

[Deleted]

Because they join a game and expect that the line "I just play for fun" is a get out of jail free card

And what "jail" is that? Being mocked? Taunted? Abused? Just another sign of the artificial meritocracy players create for themselves.

Here's the truth about certain "competitive gamers". They all wish that they were better than they are. They play to win, and then they cap out. Precious few will ever get any level of notoriety or fame. Their family probably doesn't care about their in-game skills, neither does their significant other, or even their (real-world) friends. That means the only people who will recognise their skill are the people they beat. As soon as a lower player suggests that "it doesn't matter/it's just a game/I play for fun" they lose any recognition for their skills, and will react angrily.

That's why you see players linking their LoL profiles, or posting their Armory profile, or having a signature about their guild's progress. Because they want other people to care that they are good, they want the recognition. "I play for fun" isn't a suggestion that the other person has no life, it is an affirmation that they do not perceive much merit in being good at the game. My grandmother is fantastic at knitting, I appreciate her skill. It doesn't mean I automatically view her better as a person because of it, nor do I want to get better at knitting to "beat" her at it.

Until you can understand the same lack of interest you have in knitting is what some people have for your skill at computer games you will always struggle when somebody tells you that they don't give a fuck.

I don't give a fuck.

[Drusin]

Which is entirely irrelevant to what the article is about.
That isn't even the situation it's talking about.
How is this a difficult concept?
Is this willful ignorance, or genuine stupidity?

That is still not the situation the article is about.
I think this is the point where you cut it out and get a "nice try".

I'll just go ahead and stop posting after this - but wow. Jeez. This is...Wow.
I thought people would be a bit more contemplative on a forum for an MMO.

Ok before I continue is the situation at hand "Everyone plays for fun but bad players use "I play for fun" as an excuse to be bad"? Maybe it's less of a comprehension issue I have but more of an expression issue.

[Granyala]

Ok before I continue is the situation at hand "Everyone plays for fun but bad players use "I play for fun" as an excuse to be bad"? Maybe it's less of a comprehension issue I have but more of an expression issue.

It's an expression issue with the linked article. Because the guy states that it is more fun to be good at a game than to be bad at a game.
I (and probably you) are arguing against that sort of reasoning, then others swoop in and accuse us of "being too dumb/ignorant" to understand the text.

For me, the main message "People don't like to admit their faults, more news at 11!" is NOT the interesting part that needs to be debated.
The authors assumptions and extrapolations from his own personality and preferences make for a far more interesting conversation.

@tommypilgrim: Interesting point of view. Given the fact that being good usually entails "having to do stuff that ain't fun to get to the good part" I think your arguments have to be considered.

[Sousoulsu]

Ok before I continue is the situation at hand "Everyone plays for fun but bad players use "I play for fun" as an excuse to be bad"? Maybe it's less of a comprehension issue I have but more of an expression issue.

Instead of accepting the investment necessary for being better, the investment of dedicated time and effort, they tell themselves make-believe stories. They take their short play sessions and project upon the experience and play sessions of those talented players, the ones who are playing several hours a day. The “I play for fun” crowd concludes that “Those skilled players must be bored out of their mind. Thirty hours a week? Are they for real? They must have a twitch in their brain. They must be playing to extract some perverse justice from those who picked on them in high school. They must have no life. They can’t possibly be playing for for fun. Therefore, I am playing for fun. And I feel it is my duty to make sure everybody knows that.”

It isn't bad players that he's talking about.
It's players who may be bad, decent, good, great, even among the best - who justify a loss as 'not their fault'.
It's an extension of Sirlin's 'scrub mentality'.

It really is an incredibly simple concept.
That's why it's so frustrating that the thread's full of people who just don't seem to get it; or are reading the title and having a kneejerk response to it - possibly because they make active use of the 'I play for fun!' excuse themselves; like

And what "jail" is that? Being mocked? Taunted? Abused? Just another sign of the artificial meritocracy players create for themselves.

Here's the truth about certain "competitive gamers". They all wish that they were better than they are. They play to win, and then they cap out. Precious few will ever get any level of notoriety or fame. Their family probably doesn't care about their in-game skills, neither does their significant other, or even their (real-world) friends. That means the only people who will recognise their skill are the people they beat. As soon as a lower player suggests that "it doesn't matter/it's just a game/I play for fun" they lose any recognition for their skills, and will react angrily.

That's why you see players linking their LoL profiles, or posting their Armory profile, or having a signature about their guild's progress. Because they want other people to care that they are good, they want the recognition. "I play for fun" isn't a suggestion that the other person has no life, it is an affirmation that they do not perceive much merit in being good at the game. My grandmother is fantastic at knitting, I appreciate her skill. It doesn't mean I automatically view her better as a person because of it, nor do I want to get better at knitting to "beat" her at it.

Until you can understand the same lack of interest you have in knitting is what some people have for your skill at computer games you will always struggle when somebody tells you that they don't give a fuck.

I don't give a fuck.

You're so silly.
There's no perceived ridicule or name calling in this context. Only of the person who loses trying to justify their loss by belittling the success of the victor. "If I played more, I'd beat you way badly. I play for fun, so I dont play as much as you. You must be a loser".
It's funny how closely that lines up with your perception, isn't it? ^^;

[Granyala]

That's why it's so frustrating that the thread's full of people who just don't seem to get it; or are reading the title and having a kneejerk response to it

If it frustrates you, maybe you should take a more distanced position?
Put a long winded text that only gets to the point after 1/3rd of the ASCII characters up into the Internet and that is what you will get.

After all, "we just post for fun".

*ducks and runs*

[Drusin]

It isn't bad players that he's talking about. It's players who may be bad, decent, good, great, even among the best - who justify a loss as 'not their fault'. It's an extension of Sirlin's 'scrub mentality'.

There should be a smiley for the face i'm making lol, maybe S:{ furrowed brow and upturned poked out lips lol. Everyone does that! ("everyone").

Guy A: Bro I beat you so bad in basketball!
Guy B: Pfft I wasn't even trying

Student A: What's your GPA? 3.8!? Ha I have a 4.0 you're so retarded
Student B: Pfft I was sleep in all my classes

Gamer A: Why are you fighting in mid! Get to the FR and D the FC!
Gamer B: Dude chill out i'm just playing for fun

Is that really what that article is about? That's so common I see that all the time, my guess has always been that it's a way for people to "play tough" when they are on the losing end of a situation.

[Sousoulsu]

If it frustrates you, maybe you should take a more distanced position?
Put a long winded text that only gets to the point after 1/3rd of the ASCII characters up into the Internet ant that is what you will get.

After all, "we just post for fun".

*ducks and runs*

Oh wow, how unreasonably vindictive.
Don't be upset. It's just an article ^^

There should be a smiley for the face i'm making lol, maybe S:{ furrowed brow and upturned poked out lips lol. Everyone does that! ("everyone").

Guy A: Bro I beat you so bad in basketball!
Guy B: Pfft I wasn't even trying

Student A: What's your GPA? 3.8!? Ha I have a 4.0 you're so retarded
Student B: Pfft I was sleep in all my classes

Gamer A: Why are you fighting in mid! Get to the FR and D the FC!
Gamer B: Dude chill out i'm just playing for fun

Is that really what that article is about? That's so common I see that all the time, my guess has always been that it's a way for people to "play tough" when they are on the losing end of a situation.

The more you post, the clearer it gets that it's a deficiency of yours that's making it difficult for you to get this.

[Granyala]

Oh wow, how unreasonably vindictive.

Meh. And I was just trying to be funny.
Guess I suck as a comedian, huh? ^^

[Drusin]

Don't take this the wrong way--but the more you post, the clearer it gets that it's a deficiency of yours that's making it difficult for you to grasp.

Oh I won't, i've learned through my years of wow not to let people online get to me because that's when they win and I can't allow them to win

Now i'm at a loss though, I want to know what it's about but apparently reading it won't do any good, maybe i'll make my wife read it and she can tell me lol.

[Sousoulsu]

Oh I won't, i've learned through my years of wow not to let people online get to me because that's when they win and I can't allow them to win

Now i'm at a loss though, I want to know what it's about but apparently reading it won't do any good, maybe i'll make my wife read it and she can tell me lol.

You seem to understand the basic premise; but don't find any issue with it. Let's see if I can break this down a bit for you to digest:

When I see someone devalue a friend's win because they don't want to admit to an ineptitude on their own part, I think that's really lame.
When someone queues for a ranked match and responds to a teammate asking for that someone to assist them with something with "Chill out man, I play for fun, don't take it so seriously :^)", I think that's lame.


Is it acceptable for a highschool football player to lightly jog with the ball before getting tackled and going down without a fight?
No. Of course it isn't. They would get removed from the team right after the game.
So why is it acceptable to you, in ranked team-based games, for someone to romp around away from their teammates doing their own thing, and ignore requests for help - only to respond with "Relax I play for fun god leave me alone nerds"?

I'm basically just rephrasing things already said in the article at this point

[Deleted]

You're so silly.
There's no perceived ridicule or name calling in this context. Only of the person who loses trying to justify their loss by belittling the success of the victor. "If I played more, I'd beat you way badly. I play for fun, so I dont play as much as you. You must be a loser".
It's funny how closely that lines up with your perception, isn't it? ^^;

But that's not what's happening in the majority of cases. If somebody wanted to call you a no-life loser, they'd call you a no-life loser. "I play to have fun" is merely a statement that suggests one doesn't see real merit in being good. The skilled player is the one seeking recognition. My grandmother isn't going to call you a knitting scrub, or tell you to L2Purl, probably because she isn't invested in it as a measure of her self worth.

Ultimately, that's what all this is about. Skilled players have their self-worth damaged when somebody says that they see no worth in being good at games. I know it's hard to take, but you'll be okay. Perhaps you could take up knitting?

[Drusin]

Oh wow, how unreasonably vindictive.
Don't be upset. It's just an article ^^

The more you post, the clearer it gets that it's a deficiency of yours that's making it difficult for you to get this.

When I see someone devalue a friend's win because they don't want to admit to an ineptitude on their own part, I think that's really lame.
When someone queues for a ranked match and responds to a teammate asking for that someone to assist them with something with "Chill out man, I play for fun, don't take it so seriously :^)", I think that's lame.


Is it acceptable for a highschool football player to lightly jog with the ball before getting tackled and going down without a fight?
No. Of course it isn't. They would get removed from the team right after the game.
So why is it acceptable to you, in ranked team-based games, for someone to romp around away from their teammates doing their own thing, and ignore requests for help - only to respond with "Relax I play for fun god leave me alone nerds"?

I'm basically just rephrasing things already said in the article at this point

alright now I know you're going to tell me that's not the point for this next line but if I don't say it something inside me will explode. Ok here it is:

"If it's ranked content I blame the leader for not scouting the person prior to getting them in the group" I can only speak from a wow POV I don't play other games so I don't know how their guilds/clans/LFG systems work if it's different.

I agree with your example though, but only with certain content. If it's random content like dungeons, lfr, bg's then no I don't really care what other people do mostly because I know someone in the group will nerd rage and they'll get kicked. In "ranked team-based" content if someone were to mess up and I say something to them and they give me a "I derp for fun" I would blow their house up

[Vespian]

The skilled player is the one seeking recognition.

Bull-Shit. The skilled player wants you to stop smelling the daisies is what he's seeking. It's exactly the idea that you now post, that makes it so very hard to deal with scrubs. As soon as they receive any form of criticism it's the following thoughts racing through their minds:

- Oh jezus, another one of those "look at me" people.
- It's just a game
- I'm just playing for fun

But in truth, those people don't just suck, they hold on to the suckage as if their life depends on it. Learning? About a game? Dude, that's not for normal people. Why Would I learn how to play, it's not a jooob.

This discussion actually became a discussion because so many people responded, to the article, exactly like you do. Feeling as of some elitist prick tells them to l2p. But the truth is the exact reverse. He's telling you to stop making excuses for not being able to play. (and if that is paired with some selfreflection that leads to never joining competitive games ever again, it's a nice bonus).

In "ranked team-based" content if someone were to mess up and I say something to them and they give me a "I derp for fun" I would blow their house up

Exactly. Fin.

[Sousoulsu]

In "ranked team-based" content if someone were to mess up and I say something to them and they give me a "I derp for fun" I would blow their house up

There we go.

But that's not what's happening in the majority of cases. If somebody wanted to call you a no-life loser, they'd call you a no-life loser. "I play to have fun" is merely a statement that suggests one doesn't see real merit in being good. The skilled player is the one seeking recognition. My grandmother isn't going to call you a knitting scrub, or tell you to L2Purl, probably because she isn't invested in it as a measure of her self worth.

Ultimately, that's what all this is about. Skilled players have their self-worth damaged when somebody says that they see no worth in being good at games. I know it's hard to take, but you'll be okay. Perhaps you could take up knitting?

You're taking something from the article that simply isn't there.
You're imposing a situation you're accustomed with to the article, when nothing in the article would make an unbiased person draw those conclusions.
The focus is on the one who loses and tries to make excuses for themselves.
Not on the overzealous wannabe-pro who values validation and acceptance.
Those are two equally damaging extremes that are loosely affiliated with one-another.

Idra is the poster child of the "I play for fun"/Scrub crowd.
He's a pro (though a low-tier pro, I guess) - and he whines constantly about broken game mechanics and cheap tactics when he loses.

I didn't want to argue. I didn't think this would be something so heavily argued. I don't like arguing - but when people can't help but throw reading comprehension away, I can't help but point out why they misinterpreted things - and people tend not to like it.
Maybe some people just read articles for fun.