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  1. #1

    Difficulty from a Casual Perspective

    Hello boys and girls,
    I've been seeing a lot of LFR posts lately on pretty much every gaming forum that has sections on World of Warcraft. A lot of hate on Raid Finder, also tons of criticism on the game's dropping difficulty level. As a part of the casual community LFR and Flex modes mainly adress, I would like to share some opnions on all this difficulty stuff as a casual gamer, for hardcore or professional gamers among you to read if they are interested.

    I would like to describe how raiding as "DPS" role works for me and a few mates, I understand that I may get a lot of flaming, but here it goes.

    - Normal raids usually have a lot of boss mechanics that require the player to be aware of the environment, or the buffs/debuffs and act accordingly.

    Such as wipe mechanics, bosses that get a lot more powerful if you dont dispel them, roots or dots on players etc. If you are not experienced on this stuff, or your reaction time is slower to such visual effects, you will probably fail a lot during the first tries. You will only get the hang of it after some kills, when you are experienced.

    A problem with that is, even when you are experienced, doing this with a random group that lacks coordination(pugs) might leave your reflexes as fresh as the first time you tried that boss. Most of us don't have the time, or the interest for guilds, some have trouble finding a right one(and that takes a lot of time), some don't even want to try because of the whole "we absolutely have to progress, even if we wipe for hours each week which is totally fun for some reason" thingy, that can be seen in some.
    Pugs are usually the only option, we gather up as 4 mates, create a pug and hope for the best. It's kind of like RNG even with the armory and achievement checks, if the communication isn't well between the teammates, no sir we can't even get past Horridon.

    Another problem is multitasking. Again, this might get flamed, but for a casual raider some dps rotations or priority systems are a bitch to master. To perform decent, you have to bind your more useful spells and abilites to your keyboard. It depends on the class and specialization, but with a high number of necessary dps keybinds invading "reachable" space on the keyboard, I have a very hard time reaching my defensives or the buttons I bind my raid utilites on; as I'm already having a "not fun at all" time tracking my dots, my power-ups, and trying to orchestrate my rotation/priority system according to them and to the ongoing fight the best I can. I completely understand that this is a walk in the park for an experienced raider, but that struggle for an optimal performance and survival is stressful, tiring for the most. While trying not to make big mistakes with your spesific role, damaging the boss in an optimal way and keeping track of stuff, cd's, dots and bla bla, avoiding raid mechanics or acting according to them with sharp reflexes is sometimes not easy at all. Depends on the fight, but it is highly possible that it might not feel "gamey", you have to train, research your class and the fight, train more to orchestrate what you've learned "effectively", this feels more like work actually. A lot of gamers chose this hobby to get away from the "usual serious stuff" we have to do everyday in the first place.
    Again I understand this is not even close to the case of a "proper" raider, as I very well know that they have little difficulty doing all this; they enjoy the raiding rituals and improving their performance, but this is what the most casual players experience as far as I've gathered. People either have to give up a significant amount of their performance to survive in a fight, or vice versa and put more responsibility&stress on their "better" teammates or healers. At least in the case of pugs or in some casual/softcore guilds that are still trying to progress through normal Throne of Thunder.

    Don't get me wrong by the way, I memorize rotations and try to improve myself via ice veins, reforge addons, priority addons etc when I have the time, I'm pretty sure I have asked a few things here too. But "raiding" usually requires more dedication than that, both research and exercise parts get bigger and bigger until they are no where near "fun" anymore, especially if you are underperforming in a normal raid. Then trying to improve your "performance" by trying out new numbers, button sequences, gearing choices in a video game to hit dragons with your sword for a higher number, for some fucking reason. Doing these rituals regularly ceases your interest in in them, as there is nothing interesting about "which button should i smash now" or "which gem should i use now" marathons.


    So for such a gamer that plays World of Warcraft, normal difficulty is pretty "challenging", improving performance raid wise is "tiring", trying to perform decent in an unfriendly raid environment "stressful", grinding activites such as leveling raid professions "boring", than why this dude still raids?

    Answer to that may vary from player to player. Me for instance, gaming is my favourite hobby, and I play World of Warcraft between the release dates of single player RPG's I wait to get my hands on. I will keep playing it until Dragon Age 3 comes out, i will finish and re-finish DA3, then return to WoW and keep playing until the new Mass Effect, Witcher 3 or Project Eternity comes out. World of Warcraft offers a great fantasy universe, allows you to experience and be part of a story via quests, combat, dungeons and raids, it is the single best alternative to "pass time", especially when played with rl friends. Yet, once you reach max level, it doesn't offer anything new or fun to do, if you are not into mount/achievement collecting or pvp, raiding is your only viable option, and you want it to be; as it offers story, action and the undeniable thrill of looting something new that will empower you more. It is fun, and I believe those are the main reasons many "non-raiders" want to do it every week, even with different characters as I do.

    Raid Finder adresses this vast crowd, and Flex mode probably will too. If you have read this far, thank you for reading and I hope I explained "difficulty from a casual perpective" well, adressing the LFR and difficulty arguements you have ongoing.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-07-23 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #2
    I have been raiding LFR whilst attempting to get back into "the swing of things".
    LFR is decent because I have been able to see the MoP content that I missed while away.

    Although, seeing as how I raided in a guild back in Wrath, I can say that I haven't experienced said content.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Another problem is multitasking. Again, this might get flamed, but for a casual raider some dps rotations or priority systems are a bitch to master. To perform decent, you have to bind your more useful spells and abilites to your keyboard. It depends on the class and specialization, but with a high number of necessary dps keybinds invading "reachable" space on the keyboard, I have a very hard time reaching my defensives or the buttons I bind my raid utilites on; as I'm already having a "not fun at all" time tracking my dots, my power-ups, and trying to orchestrate my rotation/priority system according to them and to the ongoing fight the best I can.
    PvE is a joke to master when it comes to keybinds. Try PvP where you have 40+ to use. If people cant figure out how to use like 8 for PvE then maybe they are playing the wrong game.

    Also DBM pretty much plays the game for you so its not like its hard to use your laughable amount of abilities at the right times.

  4. #4
    honestly if the casuals stopped using the excuse , that this game is hard , KEYBIND ur 5 abilities , do not key board turn , LOOK up ur rotation , usually takes 3-5 minutes ALWAYS be using ur global cd's as a dps in order to do high dps , follow raid mechanics , if lust is going to be popped , time ur cd's accordingly. Obviouusly the heroic raiders will be better at it , because they can move and dps at the same time , because they kno their rotation off by heart. LEARN rotation and always be using gcd's every second.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Most of the skills required for raiding are actually life skills such as spatial awareness, data analysis, decision making, muscle memory, and reaction speed; I find it odd some people use the excuse of doing those things is difficult, because if those things are difficult for you then you would benefit from actually practicing them. I do see the point of not wanting to do such things in an environment that puts pressure on you (hell, it is why I'm not in a hardcore guild). I am looking forward to the introduction of flexmode so I can gear my alts without dealing with all the damn trolls and leeches that pop up in LFR now.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tiffy33 View Post
    PvE is a joke to master when it comes to keybinds. Try PvP where you have 40+ to use. If people cant figure out how to use like 8 for PvE then maybe they are playing the wrong game.
    I have 39 keybinds on my hpala and I only do PvE.

  7. #7
    The Patient LonezWulf's Avatar
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    I stopped reading after you made it clear "casual raiders" find it tiresome to try and optimise thier preformance. I wouldnt consider you a causal raider(at the most you are on the low end casual raider) I once considered myself a casual raider when I raided 1 or 2 nights a week (using a server pug or LFR) and I always focused on trying to be the greatest player I could forcing myself to key bind, multitask, all that "tiresome" stuff. I would never consider those not willing to always improve and challenge themselves raiders at all, otherwise you are just some mooch who stumbled upon LFR.
    "Warlocks do not play the game to have fun, they are merely there to make sure no one else has any." -Sun Tzu: The Art of Warlock

  8. #8
    For all those "casual raiders" they should create a 1 button called "play the game for me". This 1 awesome button should do your rotation, move you out of shit on the ground, move you in shit on the ground that you suppose to stack in, dispell and heal people and many other things. All "casual raiders" would just sit there and spam this button. At least LFR would be faster without ppl making 20-40k in full epic set

  9. #9
    Don't get me wrong by the way, I memorize rotations and try to improve myself via ice veins, reforge addons, priority addons etc when I have the time, I'm pretty sure I have asked a few things here too. But "raiding" usually requires more dedication than that, both research and exercise parts get bigger and bigger until they are no where near "fun" anymore, especially if you are underperforming in a normal raid. Then trying to improve your "performance" by trying out new numbers, button sequences, gearing choices in a video game to hit dragons with your sword for a higher number, for some fucking reason. Doing these rituals regularly ceases your interest in in them, as there is nothing interesting about "which button should i smash now" or "which gem should i use now" marathons.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-07-23 at 04:32 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tiffy33 View Post
    PvE is a joke to master when it comes to keybinds. Try PvP where you have 40+ to use. If people cant figure out how to use like 8 for PvE then maybe they are playing the wrong game.

    Also DBM pretty much plays the game for you so its not like its hard to use your laughable amount of abilities at the right times.
    So obviously with your master skills HM TOT was very easy for you right?

  11. #11
    I only have 5 keybinds, I click on the rest of my spells/cd's. Yet I am the top dps of my guild. We aren't hardcore raiders, but we do have 12/12 normal. My boyrfriend dps is also good enough to clear normal and he's a clicker! So I'm sorry but it looks like you haven't even tried to get better, because keybinding surely isn't the problem

    As for learning your rotation I suggest the site Noxxic. It has got guides for all classes, tells you rotation, talents, glyphs, reforging, etc.

    Also maybe you should start with something easy to play? Maybe a hunter, a mage or an elemental shaman? They are all very straight forward, not too many things to keep track of, but they are very fun to play with

    But either way, if you find all of this too stressful then just dont do it? There is plenty of other things you can do in game!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    But "raiding" usually requires more dedication than that, both research and exercise parts get bigger and bigger until they are no where near "fun" anymore
    This is the fun part in raiding, this and clearing content with ppl you like/you like to play with. If it is not fun for you then neither is raiding.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Don't get me wrong by the way, I memorize rotations and try to improve myself via ice veins, reforge addons, priority addons etc when I have the time, I'm pretty sure I have asked a few things here too. But "raiding" usually requires more dedication than that, both research and exercise parts get bigger and bigger until they are no where near "fun" anymore, especially if you are underperforming in a normal raid. Then trying to improve your "performance" by trying out new numbers, button sequences, gearing choices in a video game to hit dragons with your sword for a higher number, for some fucking reason. Doing these rituals regularly ceases your interest in in them, as there is nothing interesting about "which button should i smash now" or "which gem should i use now" marathons.
    It's a good thing they're making Flex raiding, so people that don't want to be decent at the game (yes, that's a relative term) don't have to but can still do something more enjoyable than LFR.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Doing these rituals regularly ceases your interest in in them, as there is nothing interesting about "which button should i smash now" or "which gem should i use now" marathons.
    Maybe it is boring for you, but not for everyone else! Myself, I enjoy raiding mostly because of my guild, love to go through bosses with them, we are always laughing on TS! And once you get the hang of your rotation trust me, you'll get addicted to always wanting more and more dps!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinte View Post
    This is the fun part in raiding, this and clearing content with ppl you like/you like to play with. If it is not fun for you then neither is raiding.
    its only fun when the difficulty scales properly from boss to boss, and raid to raid. This isn't close to what's happened this expansion.

    Compare Elegon to Will of the Emperor... or HoF to the 'soft attuned' Terrace afterwards ?

  16. #16
    What is the deal with 'casual' and 'incompetent' being considered synonymous. Skill and time played don't move linearly together and their curve varies from one individual to the next. This game has a huge variety of 'skill plateaus'. If you are unable to reach one then you make an effort to improve with your playing time or you give up and drop back to the previous level. Your ability to play more is less of an issue than your drive to improve with the time you are given.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlily View Post
    I only have 5 keybinds, I click on the rest of my spells/cd's. Yet I am the top dps of my guild. We aren't hardcore raiders, but we do have 12/12 normal. My boyrfriend dps is also good enough to clear normal and he's a clicker! So I'm sorry but it looks like you haven't even tried to get better, because keybinding surely isn't the problem

    As for learning your rotation I suggest the site Noxxic. It has got guides for all classes, tells you rotation, talents, glyphs, reforging, etc.

    Also maybe you should start with something easy to play? Maybe a hunter, a mage or an elemental shaman? They are all very straight forward, not too many things to keep track of, but they are very fun to play with

    But either way, if you find all of this too stressful then just dont do it? There is plenty of other things you can do in game!
    You misunderstand, this is not a " why wow is so hard QQ" rant, it's not. The raid environment and community however, is very unforgiving to inexperience; and reaching to a decent level raid experience requires dedication, or a good guild, both of which should not be expected in a video game to see the content or perform at least decent-ish, as "dedication" should be given to something worthy of of it. Not killing dragons, that should stay in the "yaaay I'm killing dragons and it's crazy fun" part. At least for me and people like me.

    I main an elemental shaman, doing around 120k up to Ji-kun. It's decent, yet going through the headache of wipes, fights over loot or damage/healing meters, finding pugs when I finally got the time or interest, being have to listen to some smart-ass on vent every week tires me.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-07-23 at 04:55 PM.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    I think some raiders are threatened by LFR, insert reason here __________ (ie: not wanting to share their content or loot or just wanting to feel special). However if you look at these threads there are really only a dozen people making a massive stink about LFR, the rest of the people either don't care or like it.

    When people bash something that others like then the other people will get their backs up (just like this thread will have normal raiders defending raids, because you basically shot them down).
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-07-23 at 04:52 PM.

  19. #19
    The difficulty level is broadening, not dropping. If you think Raid Finder is boring don't play it.

    95% of people's problems with WoW boil down to you knowing how to regulate your own activities and do things that are fun. Honestly, some of the obligations think that Blizzard has for making the game fun for them are just outright stupid to the point where they leave me in disbelief.

  20. #20
    My issue here is you find raiding to be too much work. Back in Wrath, when I raided, I was server first 9/12 ICC 25 HM. I didn't use DBM. I didn't look up or watch any fights. I didn't really even look up my class much. I was consistently one of the better players on server too. Then again I was a hunter. It really doesn't take much "effort".

    If you find your class too hard and tiresome to play, try a new class. Not every class is for everyone. Likewise if you find raiding is too difficult and tiring, perhaps raiding isn't for you.

    You say people came to this game to get away from doing "work". I and many people like me, came to this game AGES ago because it WAS difficult and time consuming. We liked that. Stop arguing it's still too difficult.

    I don't try and play Street Fighter and complain that everyone online is better than me due to spending tons more time then demand they flatten the learning curve.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    You misunderstand, this is not a " why wow is so hard QQ" rant, it's not. The raid environment and community however, is very unforgiving to inexperience; and reaching to a decent level raid experience requires dedication, or a good guild, both of which should not be expected in a video game to see the content or perform at least decent-ish, as "dedication" should be given to something worthy of of it. Not killing dragons, that should stay in the "yaaay I'm killing dragons and it's crazy fun" part. At least for me and people like me.

    I main an elemental shaman, doing around 120k up to Ji-kun. It's decent, yet going through the headache of wipes, fights over loot or damage/healing meters, finding pugs when I finally got the time or interest, being have to listen to some smart-ass on vent every week tires me.
    Then I'm sorry but raiding isn't for you.

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