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  1. #21
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Vashjir was absolutely beautiful -- my favourite zone in Cataclysm visually -- but I hate questing in water and I never want to see another water zone.
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  2. #22
    I want another underwater zone badly... Vashj'ir is one of the best zones in the game!

    Also I wonder, underwater haters, were you failing on Al'Akir p3 as well? :O

  3. #23
    I hope we never get such underwater crap again ever.... underwater = bad allways...

  4. #24
    The way the underwater zones work, is pretty much like an above water zone, except you can 1) fly, 2) move faster on the ground, 3) have a super fast mount that people don't complain about 'ruining immersion'.

    Some people didn't like the zone, because 'change is scary'. Some people just can't have their paradigm shifted. Moving in 3 dimensions? Preposterous! Some are really bad at camera control. Some are bad at overall situational awareness (can't avoid mobs, because they are poor at looking around them outside a 2d plane).

    With a possible Azshara expansion, or at least a theme within an expansion; water zone(s) are sure to come. Here is where my theory of something they said comes into play ...

    Do you recall how they said MoP wasn't the initial direction for the xpac after cata? I'm guessing it was Azshara and underwater theme. Remember there was a place for another portal near ToTides. We had Neptulon captured. But the mixed reviews had them push it off (which they do sometimes to let the playerbase get over the initial shock; just how GC said he was hoping more people would want a squish now, which isn't happening). A naga/Azshara based xpac would definitely need a few underwater zones. I believe this is also why they scrapped Abyssal Maw (and one of the reasons the game started to decline, devs too reactionary plus trying to maximize efficiency/profit during cata). Azshara and Neptulon story needs to be dealt with ... I'm sure Neptulon's story was meant to be resolved (Cata did have a huge focus on the elemental planes), and in the resolution of that story, it was going to lead us deeper in the the story of the naga queen.

    But, instead, we got MoP, before they wanted to do it ... I believe that is also why a lot of people felt Garrosh changed too quickly. I believe they had initially planned to develop his character more over the course of a naga based xpac, slowly show a downward spiral of control and racism, and then MoP was to come after that and have him go over the edge to do pretty much what he is doing now.



    The two worst things you can do if you have a successful gaming business ... 1) go public (maximizing profits for shareholders by default become mandatory over integrity of company); 2) sacrifice your story and direction to either the shareholders or the fanbase (neither know what is good for the game as a whole; nor the future of the story ... the writers need to stick with their own creativity and not cave in or get manipulated).

    So, I believe we just might see the Azshara + pirate islands + goblin undermine/more of kezan + N'Zoth/emerald dream next; with the expectation that leads us into a couple xpacs in a row of legion based lore ... back to outland as a stepping stone onward to argus and/or other legion controlled planets.

    I think they need to take the vash'jir concepts and expand on them. A huge coral reef. Large ruins, with areas having different architecture. Let their imaginations run wild and be impressive.

    I also think a huge movement speed reduction is archaic and should go.

  5. #25
    another underwater zone would be fine ...... provided there was a dry-land zone that you could level in and never step foot in the underwater zone.

    I [b]HATED[\b] Vash'jir, did it the first time leveling a toon (my druid), and after that by leveling progression was to do all of Hyjal, and hope and pray that I could get into Deepholm.

    However, to answer the OP, an underwater zone would be tolerable if they would get three dimensional pathing and line of sight fixed. Too many times in Vash'jir I would have a mob targeted (maybe above me or below me), I would have, what appeared to me, clear line of sight and try to feral charge my target only to get "no path to target" or some go on some really strange path versus the straight line.
    "You give us money, we give you content" -- Russ Brown, VP of Developement for Rift
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  6. #26
    I didn't mind Vashj'ir but it became tedious after awhile. I'm not sure if the tedium came from speed or the way mobs were layered about. It's hard to describe.

  7. #27
    I love Vahj'ir as well. But if they made another water zone, they should make it a huge underwater cave system. Just imagine how awesome that would be?

  8. #28
    The problem with underwater zones is you're talking about combat in a 3-d environment, which wow isn't built for very well. All the mobs in Vash'jir feel very spread out, you have to worry about aggroing things above and below you, to name a few problems. What would be even cooler than a underwater zone imo would be a sky zone!

  9. #29
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Oh, one more thing I'd want from a new underwater zone.

    A second, same levels, zone where you DON'T have to swim. Like an island.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    Also I wonder, underwater haters, were you failing on Al'Akir p3 as well? :O
    I did fine on P3 Al'Akir. I have good 3D spatial awareness and the issues that I have with an underwater zone did not come into play in Al'Akir.

    And, BTW -- my issues would still be there if Blizzard introduced flying combat, or going to the plane of air where everyone flies around.
    "You give us money, we give you content" -- Russ Brown, VP of Developement for Rift
    Something some MMO companies seem to have forgotten.

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  11. #31
    A yellow submarine to cruise around in.

  12. #32
    I would like to see i not existing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I liked Vash'jir honestly, the only complaint I really have about it is how disconnected it felt from the rest of the world...but that's also one of it's biggest assets. It's nothing like any other zone. I hated having to be mindful of elevation and monster aggro ranges. If they did another zone like this, add a range finder or some other easily interpretted method to understand where exactly you are in relation to the mobs around you.
    They actually did in one of their pandaria patches I believe. If you hover a dot on your minimap, it will show an up arrow or a down arrow indicating on whether it is above your or below you vertically. It would be nice if they expanded this a bit more and gave a distance though :/

    ---

    I personally would love to see another water zone. Vashj was one of my favourite zones in cata. The only drawback would be, is if they did another zone full of murlocs and naga, it would more or less turn into Vashj 2.0. But if they created a new race to go along with the zone, like a killer shark tribe or some other crazy creature variety, it could be quite fun to quest through
    Last edited by Roia; 2013-07-22 at 09:03 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    I want another underwater zone badly... Vashj'ir is one of the best zones in the game!

    Also I wonder, underwater haters, were you failing on Al'Akir p3 as well? :O
    No. And the music in Vashj'ir made the zone feel bland as if my ears were filled with water. Twice is fine but thrice is overdoing it. Wouldn't mind seeing a combination of isles inside oxygen bubbles like the domes in Netherstorm.
    Last edited by Zelbert; 2013-07-22 at 09:02 PM.

  15. #35
    speaking as one of the people who felt sick whilst playing underwater zones- I dearly hope they don't make another- Seems peoples memory is quite poor. The forums were paced by people feeling sick by playing it

  16. #36
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roia View Post
    They actually did in one of their pandaria patches I believe. If you hover a dot on your minimap, it will show an up arrow or a down arrow indicating on whether it is above your or below you vertically. It would be nice if they expanded this a bit more and gave a distance though :/
    Yeah, or do like ToR does with "interior" locations. They show on the minimap where the entrance to the location is first.

    It'd help a lot with those underwater caves that were used as quest hubs.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiricine View Post
    The problem with underwater zones is you're talking about combat in a 3-d environment, which wow isn't built for very well. All the mobs in Vash'jir feel very spread out, you have to worry about aggroing things above and below you, to name a few problems. What would be even cooler than a underwater zone imo would be a sky zone!
    Walking on the clouds and glossy crystal floors!

  18. #38
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    Also I wonder, underwater haters, were you failing on Al'Akir p3 as well? :O
    Al'akir was totally fine.

    I didn't have to worry about finding something on the vertical access during Al'akir. Oh hey, I'm on top of the mark on my map, where the fuck is it? Oh, it's this cave a million feet above me, hiding in some fucking kelp.

    I didn't have to worry about getting melee range of some tinyass mob in Al'akir and looking like I'm in range but, oops, no, it's actually 15 yards below me. Al'akir was huge and had an enormous huge hitbox you could hit whether you were all the way at the top or all the way at the bottom.

    Al'akir phase 3 actually had very little movement - straight up or straight down unless you had the debuff when you'd strafe a little to the side and then back over again when it was gone. That's a far cry from moving from mob to mob to mob.

    I didn't get sim sickness from Al'akir. Phase 3 lasted, what, a minute tops? That's a little bit different than, you know, hours and hours and hours.

    I also didn't have a problem aggroing things from overhead in Al'akir because it looks like I'm safe but no, there is a patrol 20 feet above me.

    Vashjir was an amazing zone and I appreciate all the things Blizzard put in to make it more tolerable, but I still hate water combat, I hate vertical axis navigation, and I'm still going to feel like horking after 30 minutes of my character swimming everywhere.

    If they do more ocean stuff, it needs to be like Throne of the Tides (am I remembering that name right? It looks wrong now) instance where it is indoors on the sea floor, or on islands with short excursions into the sea.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2013-07-22 at 09:33 PM.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiricine View Post
    The problem with underwater zones is you're talking about combat in a 3-d environment, which wow isn't built for very well. All the mobs in Vash'jir feel very spread out, you have to worry about aggroing things above and below you, to name a few problems. What would be even cooler than a underwater zone imo would be a sky zone!
    That would be more likely to end up happening to give a simular feel while still being differnt for those who did not like underwater. Wonder how the developers would make lore for it.

    I really liked Vashjir with most of it due to the Lady Vashj story line and nagas in general. It did take a bit to get used to the 3d positioning of mobs but after I got out of the initial starting hub I was fine and really enjoyed the zone. Navigation could have been better and having vendors disappear on you requiring you to clear another chain to unlock the vendor again isnt fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeire View Post
    speaking as one of the people who felt sick whilst playing underwater zones- I dearly hope they don't make another- Seems peoples memory is quite poor. The forums were paced by people feeling sick by playing it
    As you said you are one of the people which doesnt mean all and forums represent a minority. The amount of complaints was fairly small compared to "leveling too hard" complaints. People didnt forget, they are just the players who did not feel sick from the zone and enjoyed it.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-22 at 09:36 PM.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Personally, I think Vashj'ir is one of the most amazing looking zones in the game. It's gorgeous!

    The only issue I had with it really was depth perception. I can't count how many times I either stopped short or swam right past things that weren't just on the sea bed.

    Would I have another underwater zone? Sure. Just send me some kind of special pair of glasses that helps me with underwater depth perception lol

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