There seems to be much misinformation about the dungeons being nerfed. First of all, there were no nerfs until a good 2 months after launch followed by a second smaller wave 3 month later when the troll dungeons hit. Turns out they weren't massively nerfed at all if you look through the patch notes. Most of them were pretty minor and more to make encounters a bit more reasonable. Some bosses were actually BUFFED.
So yes they were nerfed, but a lot less than what people seem to believe. Also at the later stage most people already acquired at least some gear which made them less hard which is quite logical and most people knew the tactics by now.
From a healer perspective they were probably the hardest. I remember healing Stonecore normal at 82 and I thought it was quite nice. Then I healed it at 83 and it was like: huh? where did my mana go?!. 85 hc: please shoot me. I almost threw in the towel at that point, but I stayed with it and once you got the right mindset it was sooo much more rewarding than before. I loved triage healing and the fact I was actually using ALL my spells. Also because of the hard hc's I've never met any bad healer when raiding at that time. The big difference was that you couldn't heal stupid any more. Everyone had to be on the ball. Fights like Throngus and Siamat (stands out a lot for me as I often got randomed right into that boss) are perfect examples of needing to heal efficiently and not stand in stuff and dps giving everything.
The whole reason I forgave Blizzard for Grim Batol not being a raid was because it felt like a raid.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?
and of course 'an argument' could have been made about rate of content consumption - the tbc heroics certainly were content for many players for a long, long time, and hard to beat for most players up till the end or close. I would think such an argument was indeed made, about heroics and raids. the fact blizzard then moved completely to the disposible content model where each new raid makes the old one completely irrelevant after this may say something about this too.
all this said, they cannot have not had people saying LFD would have made TBC heroics unplayable, even people who would have preferred to tune the game that way. I just cringe at the idea of applying an avg ilvl of say 110 or 115 during TBC to an LFD blind system and thinking of the likely results in heroics. at least revered keys functioned as sort of a gatecheck on players who were incapable of even finishing lvl 70 instances on normal.
other folks must have said that the playerbase had been running instances where 1 brain cell was usually not even needed and they were gonna flip out when they had to actually learn to use more than 2 or 3 aoe abilities.
THen someone else said 'hey lets kill 25m guilds and cause a negative social domino effect and combine lockouts'.....but that is another story I hope to hear about one day.
Last edited by Deficineiron; 2013-07-25 at 08:30 PM.
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They we're great fun on launch, as everything else early into Cataclysme. But then the ship sank completely.
I do not hate wow. I'm just (was) very passionated about it. There is a difference. Everyone rants about thing's they think changed badly.
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Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-25 at 11:57 PM.
First three packs: Incredibly annoying. Had to CC one of the berzerkers, had to have a dedicated interrupt on the Earthshaker or w/e his name was (guy who turned into an elemental) and possibly Milhouse Manastorm because he just AOEs everyone. Pretty much needed to mark a kill order.
Stone Golem: Loved these guys because people are dumb and can't jump to avoid earthquakes
Rock Flayers: Loved these guys too
Room before Ozruk: Can die in a fire. Way too much trash, and extremely annoying as well. You could easily be screwed if you didn't have a Shaman to lock down the fire elementals. The big ogre guys could easily oneshot a healer if RNG was bad, since their shockwave attack or whatever didn't give you enough time to move away, and they jumped around. The summoner usually had to be CC'd just so he wouldn't spawn a million imps.
Similar thing goes for the other two "terrible" dungeons: Deadmines (also way too long, and the gauntlet was shit) and Grim Batol. They weren't hard, the trash was just garbage. Honorable mention goes to the packs with the healing Naga in Throne of Tides, the groups with Twilight Borers in BRC, the guys with the lightning grounding field in Vortex Pinnacle (some of the worst trash ever) and the groups in Lost City with the Plaguebringer and the Darkcaster.
As for the bosses, they were fine other than Ozruk having that stupid "Have to dot yourself to break" shield and the bugginess of Shatter before the graphic outlining where it would hit was added, and the idiocy on the last boss with the rocks where it could clip you even without you being in the impact zone.
I remember CC was actually used for instances again in Cata. First few weeks they were definitely a challenge with pugs.
2. you destroy the other pack before pulling the boss....???!! (atleast in pugs)
On another note: strangely enough no one said anything about jumping at the right time to avoid 50% health loss by those giant thingies after the first boss in stonecore. Not that it wasn't easily avoidable, but thats were a lot of people died due to not knowing (or caring) when to jump
at the very start. the release.. heroics were kinda hard.. i remmeber trying heroic karsh steelbender.. for some reason when he was dipped into the flames his dmg went up insanely high.. 1k 2k.. 5k.. 10k.. 20k aoe.. 40k.. 80k.. .. the fire pools left by mobs didnt help much either. it took a lil while to get used to the positions. trash wasnt very helpful either and most people Failed at corla not knowing how to move out of the beam in time.
Stonecore: ozruk was easy to take once u learned his movements.. but at the start his smash would easily 1shot anyone.. i think it did like 400k or so.. anyway
the Sky palace dungeon wasnt bad.. the healing trash was kinda annoying though if u had no ccs..
the worst was proly grim batol.. even if ur raid was competent at killing mobs via the dragons.. (most pugs werent) the forgemaster and Valiona were hard for people to get used to.. and Erudax at the end.. trash+ terrible bosses= bad dungeon.
some trash was nasty in deadmines too if u didnt have proper cc.
so ya cata heroics were hard at the start.
I have been playing this game since Christmas of 2004 and have tanked, healed, meleed, and ranged.
I have cleared over half the tiers at current tier and raided all but 2 raids at current expansion (Naxx40 and SWP).
I am nowhere near the best player in the world, but I am quite experienced and definitely know how to play on a somewhat competent level.
In terms of dungeons, I did Blackrock Spire, Stratholme, Dire Maul, Scholomance, H-Shattered Malls, H-Magister's Terrace, and many other dungeons that were considered difficult with current gear when they were released.
I can honestly say I was SHOCKED when Cataclysm hit. Shocked. Flabbergasted. These dungeons were the hardest dungeons this game has ever had. Period.
Now, most everyone will point to Burning Crusade Heroics being hard or Vanilla, but I will contest that there were no real tricks or mechanics that truly bothered people (except maybe healers for the first boss in H-Auchenai Crypts). They wiped due to tuning. They CC'd on the adds, used healthstones/bandages/defensive cool downs, healed up between packs, and soldiered through progressing on the sheer knowledge of how to masterfully work their class. That was it. I don't like when old players pretend it was much of anything else. BC raids had awesome mechanics, but BC Heroics? not so much. Vanilla dungeons? Almost none at all. Wrath was grossly under tuned, but then...
Cataclysm probably had some of my favorite dungeons if I'm honest with myself, but they were heavily tuned to that of BC standards but had the heavier mechanics from the "newer" style of play that started in Wrath. Oh, Wrath was chalk full of mechanics, but they were so grossly under tuned that they were often ignored. Here, there were mechanics AND tuning that made a bunch of strangers that never worked together rarely typing much strategy a real roadblock. Communication was mandatory, and communication is not entirely common in lfg, especially after being used to Wrath. Bosses had dodging, instant kills, intense damage spikes on tank, adds with ludicrous hp that were REQUIRED to be slowed at low gear level, mandatory kiting, precision positioning, effective healing, dispels, creative group pulls (like Vortex Pinnacle), or just ludicrous raid damage to be expected to be healed by a newly 85 ilvl329 healer. Was it impossible? No. I got through the first 9 Heroics long before the first nerfs came out. Was it challenging? I guess that word is subject and relative, but relative to ANYTHING else in WoW, I'm simply not convinced that any 5 man content has really been harder, at least for that first couple weeks. Was it rewarding if you got through it and did you feel proud? Absolutely. I miss the difficulty to be honest, but it is arrogant to falsely remember it not being there
Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-26 at 08:08 AM.
Cata heroics challenging design became annoying really fast: they were artificially hard due to LFD random matchmaking even after a month after realese, when most people just wanted their VP.... a nerf was needed.
Last edited by noskillz; 2013-07-26 at 08:54 AM.
Me and static cling, that was a complete losing battle.
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Of course there were some brutally hard BC heroics, but the people who went into them knew what they were getting into and were prepared to do whatever to slog through them.
With Cata, you had gobs and gobs and gobs of people who dinged 85 and it was like "I don't raid so I guess I'll try some of these fine heroic dungeons out."
Ahahahahaha. OMG the pain. I don't remember what I did the first couple months of Cata but it was definitely not heroics. I guess that's when I started leveling alts.
With Cata you just needed Ilevel which could be achieved fairly fast, so you would potentially know less about the dungeons encounters/trash packs than you in a TBC heroic by the time you got to it.
Secondly lots of people do dungeons while they level, it's not unreasonable to think that people had done the normal mode at least a couple times before getting into heroic. Granted that yeah it wasn't nearly as bad as BC back when revered rep was required for keys.