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  1. #301
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    The only bad thing about Nazgrim's is the int proc, the multistrike is worth quite a bit more than the equivalent item budget in secondary stats. Well also there's no real niche for Nazgrim's to fill (which is why Thok's can be powerful), so people will generally default to the static int/spirit proc of seigecrafter's trinket.

    There are some healing classes that Nazgrim's is legitimately bad for though, mostly disc priests and mastery pallies.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    3k or 13k. Pick one. At some point in gearing you'll no longer be able to stay near 3k no matter how you try, and then you might as well go for 13k. Never bother with anything in between if you can avoid it. It's a rather silly situation where haste is either something you reforge out of in every slot or into in every slot, but that's just life as a HoT class right now.
    Not true at all in this tier. I assume most of us are 14/14 normal, and quite a few of us are probably 14/14hc as well. At this point you can quite effectivly gear for 3k hbp build. Heres a reference to what gear you'll want in each slot. You'll stay on 3043 in full heroic warforged with this gearset. Actually I think you'll maybe need to reforge UP HASTE to reach it.
    http://www.wowhead.com/list=271388/resto-mastery-build

    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    It's not behind by all that much, though, considering it has a much more reliable proc. It procs several times per second as a druid, so it's more or less comparable to an intellect boost, just one that's not quite as impressive as it could have been. Thok procs much less frequently and is a bit more prone to overhealing, making it a bit less reliable.
    Also keep in mind the proc is RPPM; this means it synergizes well with haste, so Nazgrim is not only better on 13 HBP, but the intellect proc makes up some of the "lost" healing many people point out when blatantly looking at healing done from multistrike versus healing done from other trinket procc effects such as for instance "cleave".

    This also means you can have complete shit luck and not have it procc when you need it ofc. It is less predictable than ICD trinkets.
    ^ I agree with this.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    Not true at all in this tier. I assume most of us are 14/14 normal, and quite a few of us are probably 14/14hc as well. At this point you can quite effectivly gear for 3k hbp build. Heres a reference to what gear you'll want in each slot. You'll stay on 3043 in full heroic warforged with this gearset. Actually I think you'll maybe need to reforge UP HASTE to reach it.
    http://www.wowhead.com/list=271388/resto-mastery-build
    Sure, you can put together a set that'll have very little haste gear on it, but it restricts your gearing in this tier as you have to take very few haste pieces and so you'll pass on some upgrades because they'll only work with the 13k haste build. This is possibly less of an issue in 25's where you'll have more selection, but it still suffers from the issue of needed pieces from a lot of different (and later) bosses, which means that if you're still progressing you might have to do so with a lower ilvl than you could be.

    Not only this, but I can't imagine there's any real comparison between the haste build and the mastery build when you're in heroic gear, with that much mastery you'll go from 50-51% which is a much lower relative increase than going from 25-26% on Harmony.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    Not true at all in this tier. I assume most of us are 14/14 normal, and quite a few of us are probably 14/14hc as well. At this point you can quite effectivly gear for 3k hbp build. Heres a reference to what gear you'll want in each slot. You'll stay on 3043 in full heroic warforged with this gearset. Actually I think you'll maybe need to reforge UP HASTE to reach it.
    http://www.wowhead.com/list=271388/resto-mastery-build
    That set looks incredibly specific and as adynn said, you're not that likely to get exactly that without passing on haste items that would in other situations be a big upgrade. Also, unless you prefer running with 18-19k spirit, with that gearset you'll be reforging some of that away into the suboptimal crit, whereas the 13k haste build always gets to reforge into haste or mastery.

  5. #305
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    Does haste effect Efflorescence ticks?

    Thanks

  6. #306
    Yes, haste makes Efflorescence tick faster (shorter duration between ticks).

    The exception to that is the haste buff from Soul of the Forest talent does NOT effect Efflorescence.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Yes, haste makes Efflorescence tick faster (shorter duration between ticks).

    The exception to that is the haste buff from Soul of the Forest talent does NOT effect Efflorescence.
    Did they hotfix this? This wasn't the case on the PTR, I have just been assuming that it remained unchanged.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Daear View Post
    That set looks incredibly specific and as adynn said, you're not that likely to get exactly that without passing on haste items that would in other situations be a big upgrade. Also, unless you prefer running with 18-19k spirit, with that gearset you'll be reforging some of that away into the suboptimal crit, whereas the 13k haste build always gets to reforge into haste or mastery.
    Since I don't have access to a computer at the moment, that wow head gear set does not show up on my phone. Though I would like to comment that even in a full normal mastery set you can reach the 13k haste breakpoint (with 4pc) and maybe swapping 1 haste peice.

    Looking at my gear (I have some heroics, yes) I have 3 pieces with haste on them + amp (ring, boots, head) can comfortably reach the breakpoint with haste gemming and still have decent amount of mastery. I currently am reforged into a bit more spirit than normal because I wanted to test something But didn't get the chance before the holidays. I can easily drop down 2k spirit into mastery though.

    In my opinion, if you can stack mastery in your gear then it's more worth it than getting another haste peice.

    I guess it also depends on how much mastery you're losing for the into you gain, but I feel like I've itemized my gear pretty precisely and I won't change it for many other pieces other than a direct upgrade of the same piece. I think the only thing I would change here would be the haste ring for the thok one, but I'd rather let dps get it before me.

    It may also be easier for me since I'm in a 25 man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    Also keep in mind the proc is RPPM; this means it synergizes well with haste, so Nazgrim is not only better on 13 HBP, but the intellect proc makes up some of the "lost" healing many people point out when blatantly looking at healing done from multistrike versus healing done from other trinket procc effects such as for instance "cleave".

    This also means you can have complete shit luck and not have it procc when you need it ofc. It is less predictable than ICD trinkets.
    Multi strike does not scale with haste.

    To prove this:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94514/horridons-last-gasp

    This tool tip says [+ haste]

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=102294/n...ished-insignia

    While this doesn't.

    You can also equip horridons (or the DPS caster cloak) and notice that the RPPM goes up and down when you unequip haste pieces.

    Lastly, cleave gives the same intellect proc as multistrike while being more predictable since it's ICD. In pretty much every fight (more so stacked fights), cleave will out heal multistrike.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    Did they hotfix this? This wasn't the case on the PTR, I have just been assuming that it remained unchanged.
    They didn't hot fix it, it just got fixed before it went live.
    Last edited by krazyito65; 2014-01-05 at 02:07 PM.

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  9. #309
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    Should I go for the high 12k haste breakpoint.

    I am not even sure I can get there but I will lose a lot of mastery as expected and some int from taking haste over int. Is it worth all the loss of other stats?

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Bomimal/simple

    I am hoping it shows the waist upgraded to the 553 Leatherworking purchase.

    Thanks all

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    Should I go for the high 12k haste breakpoint.

    I am not even sure I can get there but I will lose a lot of mastery as expected and some int from taking haste over int. Is it worth all the loss of other stats?

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Bomimal/simple

    I am hoping it shows the waist upgraded to the 553 Leatherworking purchase.

    Thanks all
    The high 12k meaning the 12834 for an extra lifebloom tick? No, you should never go for the haste breakpoints that solely affect LB. If you want higher haste, you pretty much have to get the 13163 bp in order for it to be worth it. Extra ticks on lifebloom are nearly meaningless. You only want bps for rejuv, wg and tranq only if it's convenient (in this case, tranq gets another tick at 13157 which is only 6 haste below the rejuvenation one at 13163.

    As for if you should even go for a higher break point, askmrrobot is a great tool to see how much mastery and spirit you might sacrifice to get the haste. In your case, I plugged you in for the 13163 bp and gave you 12000 static spirit (rounded up from your armory). You would lose something like 8% mastery, 4% crit, 2289 intellect. I would recommend you get a few more haste pieces before you make the switch. The haste mace from Garrosh, haste OH from either protectors or Garrosh, haste shoulders from Garrosh, tier gloves from Nazgrim and haste bracers from malkorok. A few of those pieces will make your transition easier.
    Last edited by Jordaen; 2014-01-05 at 06:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    judging 25man raiding by LFR standards saying it requires no coordination, is like saying 5mans require cheese sandwiches because i like turtles.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by adynn View Post
    The only bad thing about Nazgrim's is the int proc, the multistrike is worth quite a bit more than the equivalent item budget in secondary stats.
    also remember that the multistrike is more likely to overheal as it comes after the heal that procced the effect

    and actually the proc is pretty crazy, and regularly hits over 25% and sometimes up to 30%+ uptime,, I've been linked logs of 50% uptime, it's actually pretty strong trinket, it just faces the difficulty that the others are more consistently powerful (although honestly, I've never gotten many useful procs of the thok and sha trinkets unless I was purposefully playing their ICD before the pull which you usually lack time to do on progression), I think the trinkets were handled fairly well this tier in terms of balance, especially with how if you prefer more total consistency, you have the choice of taking blackfuse's and reforging out of spirit,

    I at least have fun figuring out which trinkets let me perform best on a fight, not sure if everyone does though, but I don't really like how large of an increase sha is at high gear levels now that I got it

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordaen View Post
    The high 12k meaning the 12834 for an extra lifebloom tick? No, you should never go for the haste breakpoints that solely affect LB. If you want higher haste, you pretty much have to get the 13163 bp in order for it to be worth it. Extra ticks on lifebloom are nearly meaningless. You only want bps for rejuv, wg and tranq only if it's convenient (in this case, tranq gets another tick at 13157 which is only 6 haste below the rejuvenation one at 13163.

    As for if you should even go for a higher break point, askmrrobot is a great tool to see how much mastery and spirit you might sacrifice to get the haste. In your case, I plugged you in for the 13163 bp and gave you 12000 static spirit (rounded up from your armory). You would lose something like 8% mastery, 4% crit, 2289 intellect. I would recommend you get a few more haste pieces before you make the switch. The haste mace from Garrosh, haste OH from either protectors or Garrosh, haste shoulders from Garrosh, tier gloves from Nazgrim and haste bracers from malkorok. A few of those pieces will make your transition easier.
    I did mean the breakpoint you said just got the figures wrong. You answered it for me though at the moment that is to much other stats to get it, especially the into.

    Thanks for looking at it.

  13. #313
    Alright, well i have some questions as to what you all think i should be going for. We are 8/14H 25 and should be further very soon, but i am getting some BIS peices and need some advice.

    Couldn't link my armory due to this being my first posting on here.. but you can look me up. Sudowudo on Boulderfist

    I was doing a mastery build with 5176 Haste. Also staying around 18k spirit due to us having a good resto shaman, and i never have mana issues. So after reading thru these forums and others, and some recent upgrades. I am debating switching to the 13,953 break point since i run SOTF. The other druid that heals with us swears by the 5176 haste and stack mastery. Which has worked fairly well for me, i am either 1st or 2nd on most fights.

    Now i switched over, gemming, enchanting, and reforging for the 13,953 break point and am going to test is out tomorrow during our raid. But i wanted to see what you all thought. With higher end gear, is the "best" thing to go for the higher haste break point while sacrificing mastery. I lost about 14% mastery but gained about 19k haste in the end of the switch. Any info or help would be greatly appreciated

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Sudowudo View Post
    Alright, well i have some questions as to what you all think i should be going for. We are 8/14H 25 and should be further very soon, but i am getting some BIS peices and need some advice.

    Couldn't link my armory due to this being my first posting on here.. but you can look me up. Sudowudo on Boulderfist

    I was doing a mastery build with 5176 Haste. Also staying around 18k spirit due to us having a good resto shaman, and i never have mana issues. So after reading thru these forums and others, and some recent upgrades. I am debating switching to the 13,953 break point since i run SOTF. The other druid that heals with us swears by the 5176 haste and stack mastery. Which has worked fairly well for me, i am either 1st or 2nd on most fights.

    Now i switched over, gemming, enchanting, and reforging for the 13,953 break point and am going to test is out tomorrow during our raid. But i wanted to see what you all thought. With higher end gear, is the "best" thing to go for the higher haste break point while sacrificing mastery. I lost about 14% mastery but gained about 19k haste in the end of the switch. Any info or help would be greatly appreciated
    Before I say anything, I'm going to answer your actual question: It has been asked and answered multiple times throughout the thread, being, yes, it is generally agreed upon that you should go to the higher haste breakpoint, but keeping a decent amount of mastery. The amount of mastery is usually dependent on the person. Now on to my long winded answer concerning your post.

    I had concerns about your post because every single number looked wrong, then I realized that you're using Wild Growth SotF breakpoints.

    First, in my opinion you shouldn't reforge for those breakpoints becasue it is only useful with SoTF up, which is only a small part of the whole fight. So every other time, you just have excess haste that isn't doing anything when you're main healing spell is rejuv, which isn't benefiting from the extra haste. On top of having that 1 extra tick for wild growth shouldn't make that big of a difference since the last bit of it might go to overheal anyway. Another thing is you would have to make sure you're using WG every time with a SoTF or else again its wasted. I personally don't like using it, I alternate because I just don't like the idea of not using these spells on CD (I guess call me old school). As for the 5167 breakpoint i find it less useful than the 13953 because its a 2k haste difference between the breakpoint you should be at, which again, to me seem wasteful. The 13953 isnt as bad becasue its only a 800~ rating difference.

    Next, I find it odd that you say you have 18k spirit as if it was a low amount. 18k is a very high amount of spirit, and as such, even without a resto shaman you're not going to be running into mana issues. You can probably experiment with going down more spirit in favor of mastery.

    Next, you say you lost 14% mastery but said that its ok since you gained 19k haste, which is wrong, but I'm going to assume it was a typo and you meant 10k. Again, IMO, 5k mastery is low but ive seen plenty of people do fine like that. I personally wanted until i could have about 9-10k mastery before I made my switch. You can have 3 haste pieces + your cape and reach the normal 13k haste breakpoint while doubling your mastery if you were to replace some haste pieces with mastery pieces. (lastly on this, dont use crit pieces. I mean, maybe you upgraded from an LFR version of shoulders, but you should really avoid using crit pieces and getting better itemized pieces even if its ilvl downgrade by 1 jump i.e. Heroic -> normal)

    I made an Ask Mr. Robot profile for you if you wish to take a look at it which brings you to the 13,163 breakpoint (while still going for about 18k spirit). This is a very small change from what you already have, but its slightly more optimal. What I would suggest is maybe taking this and toning down some spirit (which in turn will give you more mastery) and as you get more pieces plug them in before you decide to use them and see if you gain more overall mastery from it. You can even do it now and just change some of your haste pieces (your belt to the spi/mastery belt from garrosh, normal tier shoulders and mastery gloves from spoils, and lastly a spoils neck piece). I made those changes and saved them here which show (if you sacrifice some spirit) you can gain more mastery while still maintaining the breakpoint.

    Sorry I went on kind of a long rant about this, but there is my opinion on the matter because i always see people gearing for so much haste when its mastery you should be gearing for. Think about it. Haste and spirit are usually static amounts. You want to stay at a specific amount of spirit and haste while trying to increase your mastery/intellect. Same thing with gems. Your gems are always 320 haste, so how do you get more mastery? Through ilvl upgrades on your gear. and when you upgrade peices with haste on them, you slowly start reducing the amount of haste you need in gems and eventually gem small amounts of mastery.

    I hope this post helped, please feel free to ask any more questions about it.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
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    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.

  15. #315

    Breakpoints

    Thank you for your response krazyito65, i really did learn a lot. My only question at this point is, what break point do you recommend going for? You said i was 2k away from the one i should be aiming for. Also i got the Heroic Haste Boots (Salt Water Sandals) last night in raid.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudowudo View Post
    Thank you for your response krazyito65, i really did learn a lot. My only question at this point is, what break point do you recommend going for?
    13163 if you can reach it without sacrificing too much spirit, using lower item level gear (because it happens to have haste) or breaking socket bonuses. As close as possible to 3043 otherwise.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    13163 if you can reach it without sacrificing too much spirit, using lower item level gear (because it happens to have haste) or breaking socket bonuses. As close as possible to 3043 otherwise.
    Why would i go for the 3046, i was already reaching 5176 with no issues and stacking mastery. I am sticking to 18k spirit. I run SOTF and i prefer that over tree any day... tree only gives you any kind of buff every time you use it. I use SOTF with WG on CD every time.

  18. #318
    you should be going for the rejuv/tranquility breakpoint at around 13.1k

    the issue with taking haste past or below that point deals with rejuv/tranq not scaling well with haste until it gains an extra tick (remember that those 2 spells are probably like 25-40% of your healing)

    there's also only 600 haste at that point that isn't affecting your non-sotf wild growths (and 2k haste that isn't affecting your SotF WGs)

    although you could go take the 13.9k breakpoint if you really wanted to, it would cause you to have 1.5k haste from your normal WGs, and almost 1k haste, from your rejuvs/tranqs that won't be scaling well, so it's a better conservation of stats to reforge to as close to that breakpoint as possible so you'd see a small (like 0.5-1%, maybe even less) healing loss and the haste would be completely wasted if you ever weren't using SotF

    basically, long story short, our hots lose mana efficiency and healing done (unless for some reason you actually think you're going to be back-to-back rolling rejuvs on people), so 40-50%-ish of our healing (tranq, rejuv, and wild growth) won't be affected well by haste if you don't go for these breakpoints, and the reason we aim for them is because druids don't have much mana issues with increased haste and haste has the best throughput increase to amount taken ratio (1% per 425 rating and it doesn't lose relative value like crit, int, mastery do)

    and the reason taking astronomical spirits is bad is because you'll find yourself being more mana-efficient when you can just cover people's health bars with less rejuv's and cooldown based heals and some others (which don't scale too well with spirit): efflo/bloom, swiftmend, tranq, lifebloom, WG, clearcast procs (this actually makes up a pretty decent amount of or healing)

    all spirit really does is increase the amount of filler-y spells (rejuvs) at the cost of doing less healign with all spells, and having less means you might have to use a regrowth to cover someone sooner or later and end up not even making the mana increase not so worthwhile anyways (although sometimes, being able to hit more targets with more rejuvs for less can help, especially if you have the 2p)

    crazy amounts of spirit is also just generally bad because you can do more healing by reforging excess spirit into other stats and doing more healing with it

    and you can still link your armory if you put a space or 2 in there somewhere or remove the period so the site doesn't recognize it as a URL

  19. #319
    Thank you, that was a great response. I am currently going for the 13,163 break point. I get it the extra 800 haste isnt worth the extra tick of WG. Here is a link to my askmrrobot profile i did. This is what im currently running, any changes please feel free to let me know.

    www dot askmrrobot dot com/wow/gear/usa/boulderfist/sudowudo

    Armory: us dot battle dot net/wow/en/character/boulderfist/Sudowudo/simple

  20. #320
    take so long to read all this. however from experiences. Gearing a druid healer is a lot complicated than what has been written in here. Tho numbers and charts might look fantastic. but real world is different.. There has been a lot of arguing about Mastery and Haste, and personally, if you can reach it, go to the next haste cap or further till is just too high to bother.
    The magic number at the moment is 13k something. rather 37.52%. lets call that the end game haste break point. because is just that easy to get to now.

    so after all this, why cant we have mastery with all that haste? my druid has that haste cap and 37% mastery with it. I don't see why cant we. you just have to manage mana little better, but because my druid is tuned for 10men, I don't need the 15k-16k+ spirit/regen. as I don't have that much to heal. and the fact that I heal with a shaman, make my healing job so much easier.

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Druci/simple

    that fact is, is nice to have high mastery and or haste. but I believe they go hand in hand together. think of it like this. if mr Haste is casting spells, his hots is great but each tick is so tiny. that the effect isn't there. because in seriousness, other smart healers would of already healed the rest that is missing from Mr Haste if otherwise he should have healed.

    While Mr Mastery here casts his hots. the total duration of the hots is powerful. but so slow. so by the time his hots reachs 3rd tick, other healers would of covered the missing health.
    seeing the picture here??

    if you have both haste and mastery. you can do both and be super OP. which I cant understand why people aren't doing that but just arguing, one or the other. do both. and will walk away with a smile.

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