Page 17 of 25 FirstFirst ...
7
15
16
17
18
19
... LastLast
  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by druci View Post
    take so long to read all this. however from experiences. Gearing a druid healer is a lot complicated than what has been written in here. Tho numbers and charts might look fantastic. but real world is different.. There has been a lot of arguing about Mastery and Haste, and personally, if you can reach it, go to the next haste cap or further till is just too high to bother.
    The magic number at the moment is 13k something. rather 37.52%. lets call that the end game haste break point. because is just that easy to get to now.

    so after all this, why cant we have mastery with all that haste? my druid has that haste cap and 37% mastery with it. I don't see why cant we. you just have to manage mana little better, but because my druid is tuned for 10men, I don't need the 15k-16k+ spirit/regen. as I don't have that much to heal. and the fact that I heal with a shaman, make my healing job so much easier.

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Druci/simple

    that fact is, is nice to have high mastery and or haste. but I believe they go hand in hand together. think of it like this. if mr Haste is casting spells, his hots is great but each tick is so tiny. that the effect isn't there. because in seriousness, other smart healers would of already healed the rest that is missing from Mr Haste if otherwise he should have healed.

    While Mr Mastery here casts his hots. the total duration of the hots is powerful. but so slow. so by the time his hots reachs 3rd tick, other healers would of covered the missing health.
    seeing the picture here??

    if you have both haste and mastery. you can do both and be super OP. which I cant understand why people aren't doing that but just arguing, one or the other. do both. and will walk away with a smile.
    No one is saying oh my god ignore haste or mastery in favor of the other. You haven't touched heroics yet, and you've logged out in balance gear so I can't really look at your stats, but I'm 10/14 heroic and I run with only 13k spirit, I have 13163 haste, and 34.81% unbuffed mastery. the point of saying you should get a certain break point is because at that break point, haste is better than mastery. As soon as you get the break point, you put everything you can into mastery. That's what's said in this guide, as well as almost every other discussion about it. If it's not blatantly said, it's implied. Spirit to comfortable level > 3043 or 13163 haste with nothing in between, higher, or lower > mastery > blah blah blah. You're supposed to "be op" and have high amounts of both, especially in this final tier. In ToT, it wasn't possible to have 10k mastery, 13k spirit, and 13k haste simply because the stat budget wouldn't allow it outside of full heroic TF.



    TL;DR you're doing what all the other druids are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coronius View Post
    When I see a lowbie Horde on a PvP server, I remove all my gear and fist him to death with my naked Gnome.
    Asenya Straightarrow http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Straightarrow
    Rayin Lightsong http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ayin-Lightsong

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by druci View Post
    if you have both haste and mastery. you can do both and be super OP. which I cant understand why people aren't doing that but just arguing, one or the other. do both. and will walk away with a smile.
    I think this guy means that people are gimping their mastery more than they should (I.e. 5k or less mastery)

    If he would have actually read the page at least, you would have noticed I pretty much said that in this post already.

    Basically you don't need huge amounts of haste on your gear since haste is static. You can get it from gems, which is also static and gain mastery through direct gear upgrades.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  3. #323
    No need for paragraphs to describe:

    Intellect>haste(13163 or 3043)>spirit(comfortable)>mastery>crit>spirit(extra)>haste(extra)

    It's pretty simple. Very few variables, pick the haste BP your gear allows and the level of spirit your gear/comp makes comfortable and the rest is a simple priority.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  4. #324
    Just gonna ask a question here instead of making a new thread. Cus it's an old topic too. Starting to finish my normal gear set which means my spirit has gone up to plus 16k. Now I'm not great with math so here goes: Say I went from 16k to 12k spirit (and turned all that into mastery), how much more would my heals heal for vs the amount of extra rejuvs I'd have?

    "Comfortable level of regen" is a phrase I read all the time. I can't help to think: There must be a (mathematically) correct answer. What would result in more healing, more mastery or more rejuvs?

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    "Comfortable level of regen" is a phrase I read all the time. I can't help to think: There must be a (mathematically) correct answer. What would result in more healing, more mastery or more rejuvs?
    The reason we say comfortable is becasue raid comp can change how many rejuvs you cast per amount of spirit. Things that change this are 1) Mana tide totem, 2) Hymn of Hope, 3) Other innervates, 4) Raid competence.

    Play style makes up a huge part of how many rejuvs you put out. You can do something like just put out constant rejuvs on people that need them throughput the fight, or burst rejuvs on a set group of people or area for mechanics and then conserve mana for the next part.

    How much damage your raid takes because of their competency also makes a huge difference on your mana. if your raid is really good, you don't have to do as much healing and can get away with less, if they are pretty bad, you may need more. Because play styles vary so much, the amount of spirit you need really depends on how comfortable you are at healing and managing your personal mana.

    You pretty much just want to get as little spirit as you need and then get mastery
    Last edited by krazyito65; 2014-01-10 at 06:03 AM.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by krazyito65 View Post
    The reason we say comfortable is becasue raid comp can change how many rejuvs you cast per amount of spirit. Things that change this are 1) Mana tide totem, 2) Hymn of Hope, 3) Other innervates, 4) Raid competence.
    I don't get this. Maybe cus I'm not good with numbers. How can anything change the number of rejuvs you can cast per spirit? 1 rejuv will always cost the same amount of mana?

    Also, i understand raid comp can effect how much mana you have available over the course of a fight. But the question still stands: isnt there a mathematically correct answer to wether x amount of mastery is better than x amount of rejuvs?

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    I don't get this. Maybe cus I'm not good with numbers. How can anything change the number of rejuvs you can cast per spirit? 1 rejuv will always cost the same amount of mana?
    Yes, it always costs the same amount of mana, but the external cooldowns you have available allow you to get more mana than another persons with higher spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    Also, i understand raid comp can effect how much mana you have available over the course of a fight. But the question still stands: isnt there a mathematically correct answer to wether x amount of mastery is better than x amount of rejuvs?
    There might be. I personally don't know. The best I could say is probably starts to be too much at 16k+ spirit. the reason I say that is not based on math, but more my experience. If you have 17k or more spirit and you're sacrificing mastery for it, its probably that you need a better look at your play style and do something different.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  8. #328
    the comfortable term comes from everyone having very different raid comps and mana cds as well as types of healing they have to cover available as said above

    also because the spirit check on every fight can be incredibly different on any given fight, so there is no mathematically correct answer, it's basically wherever you find yourself at under 50k on more difficult fights

    there's a good line in this thread about every 600 spirit is about 1 more rejuv per minute, which is also about equal to just a bit more than 1% more healing done if it were mastery at current gear levels where mastery is barely holding onto its spot above crit if we had 0% crit total

    also consider fights like naz, spoils, or IJ, if someone stands in something on IJ, or a spell goes off on naz or the millions of bullshits that happens on spoils you'll need regrowth and if you're sitting there with that sniper on you, you're going to need more than lb and rejuv on you to live unless your dps have him dead before your stun ends so you might want more spirit there

    the best possible way would be to swap gear like every fucking fight, which would be a pain in the ass, so nobody does it, especially with the amount of RNG mana you can get out of the LMG and the Samophlange if you have it, seriously some pulls you can get unlucky and go oom, some you'll literally never go under the mana cap

    there can also be other differences from just things like your # of available defensive cooldowns or healing cooldowns helping healing, I know I'd be spending more mana if I didn't have an an ele shammy or if I had less dps w/ healing/defensive cooldowns

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    But the question still stands: isnt there a mathematically correct answer to wether x amount of mastery is better than x amount of rejuvs?
    The mathematical answer you are looking for is this: In a theoretical situation of no overheal and max HPS, 1 mastery is better than 1 spirit. You get the most throughput with as little spirit as possible.

    Now this is not a realistic scenario for most bosses, but it is why everyone says you should only have as much spirit as you really need, and put the rest in throughput stats. Because mastery always gives you more throughput than spirit (this includes the extra rejuvs you can cast).

    This is also the reason why hardly any 10-man hc resto druid has more than 13k spirit. Throughput simply trumps it.
    Last edited by Thalur; 2014-01-10 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #330
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Scandinavia
    Posts
    2,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    Starting to finish my normal gear set which means my spirit has gone up to plus 16k. Now I'm not great with math so here goes: Say I went from 16k to 12k spirit (and turned all that into mastery), how much more would my heals heal for vs the amount of extra rejuvs I'd have?
    There are two answers to that question, or rather two reasons why it can't be answered:

    1. It depends on how much haste and other stats you have. Getting a bit more mastery is worth more when you're sitting at 13k haste than 3k, since haste and mastery stack multiplicatively. It also depends on your current mastery, as mastery stacks additively with itself. People can give you approximations based on generalizations, but without knowing all your stats it's impossible to give any useful answer.

    2. Converting extra mana into extra Rejuvenations is rather iffy math. Such calculations assume that you have GCDs to spare when it's actually needed and that you end fights with no mana. Unless you actually go completely out of mana (to the point where you cannot afford a Rejuv), more spirit wouldn't actually do anything except make you more comfortable with the amount of blue in the mana bar.

    Try getting rid of about 1k spirit per week and see how that affects your mana bar. I'm guessing you won't actually notice the difference unless you're one of those people who obsessively stare at their blue bars. The optimal level of regen is whatever makes you go OOM about ten seconds before the boss dies, as your HoTs will keep on ticking after you're OOM and any Rejuv you cast in the last 12 seconds of the fight won't have time to tick properly anyway.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #331
    I would like to ask for some feedback on my druid. My primary points of confusion atm:

    1) Should I even use 160 intellect gems or switch them all to mastery/intellect?
    2) I can reach the 13k haste point but I would need to seriously gimp my mastery/spirit and even lose some intellect, is it worth it?

    Moreover a general checkup on whether or not I am optimizing my gear would be cool! Thanks in advance

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...areat/advanced
    SYSTEM SPECS
    Case: CM 690 II | Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
    CPU: 2500K @ 4.7Ghz| CPU Cooler: Mugen 2
    GPU: 6950 1GB | RAM: Corsair XMS3 8GB @ 1600
    SSD: m4 128GB | HDD: F3 1TB| PSU: XFX 650W

  12. #332
    #1) Yes you should be using either int/mastery or int/haste in red sockets instead of 160 intellect gems
    On a related note, don't use int/spirit purple gems in blue sockets...you are better off using haste/spirit or mastery/spirit green gems.

    #2) With your gear level, I'd say yes it is worthwhile going for the 13k haste breakpoint. Use Int/haste in red sockets, 320 haste in yellow/prismatic, haste/spirit in blues. Haste enchant to gloves (possibly to boots if you really need that last bit of haste to make it, otherwise stick with the enchant you have). Ring and boots have weak socket bonus (60 spirit) so just ignore the socket and go 320 haste gem if you need more haste to reack the breakpoint.

    Beyond that things look ok. See if you can get the trinket from Sha of Pride, not only is it the best trinket for you, but it'll reduce how much haste you need to reach the breakpoint.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    #1) Yes you should be using either int/mastery or int/haste in red sockets instead of 160 intellect gems
    On a related note, don't use int/spirit purple gems in blue sockets...you are better off using haste/spirit or mastery/spirit green gems.

    #2) With your gear level, I'd say yes it is worthwhile going for the 13k haste breakpoint. Use Int/haste in red sockets, 320 haste in yellow/prismatic, haste/spirit in blues. Haste enchant to gloves (possibly to boots if you really need that last bit of haste to make it, otherwise stick with the enchant you have). Ring and boots have weak socket bonus (60 spirit) so just ignore the socket and go 320 haste gem if you need more haste to reack the breakpoint.

    Beyond that things look ok. See if you can get the trinket from Sha of Pride, not only is it the best trinket for you, but it'll reduce how much haste you need to reach the breakpoint.
    Thanks for the reply. I've calculated how much stuff I would need to sacrifice for the 13k point, and currently that would be 3000 intellect (3200 SP), 10% mastery and 1k spirit. That's a 17-19% loss to my healing. Do the few added ticks really add that much?
    Last edited by achareat; 2014-01-10 at 03:51 PM.
    SYSTEM SPECS
    Case: CM 690 II | Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
    CPU: 2500K @ 4.7Ghz| CPU Cooler: Mugen 2
    GPU: 6950 1GB | RAM: Corsair XMS3 8GB @ 1600
    SSD: m4 128GB | HDD: F3 1TB| PSU: XFX 650W

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by achareat View Post
    I would like to ask for some feedback on my druid. My primary points of confusion atm:

    1) Should I even use 160 intellect gems or switch them all to mastery/intellect?
    2) I can reach the 13k haste point but I would need to seriously gimp my mastery/spirit and even lose some intellect, is it worth it?

    Moreover a general checkup on whether or not I am optimizing my gear would be cool! Thanks in advance

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...areat/advanced
    Your item level is a little low and according to this Mr. Robot profile I made for you. You would be putting your mastery at about 6k (28% buffed) with 12k~ spirit.

    You CAN make that work, again if you're comfortable with the spirit. But I would wait to upgrade some of your haste pieces first, or wait until you get the legendary cloak which makes up a decent amount. If you bump mastery up to .55 it would give you about 7k mastery, but 9k~10k spirit. Play around with the weights.

    Heres a mastery build for you if you like.
    Last edited by krazyito65; 2014-01-10 at 03:58 PM.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by krazyito65 View Post
    Your item level is a little low and according to this Mr. Robot profile I made for you. You would be putting your mastery at about 6k (28% buffed) with 12k~ spirit.

    You CAN make that work, again if you're comfortable with the spirit. But I would wait to upgrade some of your haste pieces first, or wait until you get the legendary cloak which makes up a decent amount. If you bump mastery up to .55 it would give you about 7k mastery, but 9k~10k spirit. Play around with the weights.

    Heres a mastery build for you if you like.
    Hmm I'm just wondering if it's worth losing that much mastery/spirit/intellect for the haste. How much healing does the added haste add anyway?

    edit: in other words, if I go 13k haste, how much will that improve my healing?
    Last edited by achareat; 2014-01-10 at 04:00 PM.
    SYSTEM SPECS
    Case: CM 690 II | Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
    CPU: 2500K @ 4.7Ghz| CPU Cooler: Mugen 2
    GPU: 6950 1GB | RAM: Corsair XMS3 8GB @ 1600
    SSD: m4 128GB | HDD: F3 1TB| PSU: XFX 650W

  16. #336
    I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't know like any math behind it on what theoretical amount you should get. I just know when I switched to it, I saw myself (in about 568+~ ilvl) jump up in healing from my previous week by about 7%+ total healing or so per fight. Some people may not see such a huge difference, but for the most part its worth it.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by krazyito65 View Post
    I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't know like any math behind it on what theoretical amount you should get. I just know when I switched to it, I saw myself (in about 568+~ ilvl) jump up in healing from my previous week by about 7%+ total healing or so per fight. Some people may not see such a huge difference, but for the most part its worth it.
    So you switched at those item levels? Whoa. I think I'm gonna go for maximum mastery until I can stay at 14-15k spirit after the switch to haste. Does that sound like a good idea? It's really the toughest decision I've yet had to make on my druid, and it seems that there is no simple yes or no answer
    SYSTEM SPECS
    Case: CM 690 II | Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
    CPU: 2500K @ 4.7Ghz| CPU Cooler: Mugen 2
    GPU: 6950 1GB | RAM: Corsair XMS3 8GB @ 1600
    SSD: m4 128GB | HDD: F3 1TB| PSU: XFX 650W

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by achareat View Post
    Hmm I'm just wondering if it's worth losing that much mastery/spirit/intellect for the haste. How much healing does the added haste add anyway?

    edit: in other words, if I go 13k haste, how much will that improve my healing?
    Looking at the Mr. Robot profile, it would be worth it but the gain would only be small because of the missing socket bonuses. Also this only works if you are comfortable with that level of spirit. If not, stick with mastery, that's totally fine.

    The effects of the 13k breakpoint are (assuming all 10100 haste comes from mastery, otherwise the benefit is even bigger):
    +16% to Rejuv
    +25% to WG and Efflo
    +23.5% to Lifebloom
    22.1% faster casting of everything besides Rejuv
    -14.9% to all healing spells

    Basically, all hots win and all cast time spells (and tranq) lose (but are faster). Looking at our healing distribution, it's a clear HPS gain. (Only possible exception in 25 man with heavy tranq reliance and low mastery after the transition.)

    Regarding your last question, many 10 man resto druids switched to 13k haste somewhere during ToT. Guess I had about 530 ilvl when I switched (but you needed more haste pieces than with high item levels today).

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by achareat View Post
    Hmm I'm just wondering if it's worth losing that much mastery/spirit/intellect for the haste. How much healing does the added haste add anyway?
    edit: in other words, if I go 13k haste, how much will that improve my healing?
    EDIT: +1 to what Thalur said :P

    After checking out your AMR, its a tough call, losing 2800 sp and 8.43% mastery (and dropping spirit to 12k) , you would likely still have an output gain, but I'd recommend upgrading haste pieces valor, and getting some additional haste pieces if possible. For example the crafted belt is spirit+haste.

    Also since you have 5 pieces of the set, you could easily replace one with a haste piece (the shoulders or chest perhaps). Getting the Meta gem and the legendary cloak will help as well, especially since that would give you access to warforged loot from Ordos (who drops a very nice haste+spirit neck)

    TL/DR if you went 13k haste now, you'd break even or likely even have a small gain in output; but would still recommend waiting till you get 1-2 more haste drops
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2014-01-10 at 06:13 PM.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by achareat View Post
    So you switched at those item levels? Whoa. I think I'm gonna go for maximum mastery until I can stay at 14-15k spirit after the switch to haste. Does that sound like a good idea? It's really the toughest decision I've yet had to make on my druid, and it seems that there is no simple yes or no answer
    I only waited that long becasue I was hardheaded about it and wanted to keep 10k mastery and like 14-15k spirit. Thats just a personal preference because I hated the thought of being that low mastery.

    Again, as other people have commented, mastery is still just as viable at higher gear levels and in my opinion, you're only about a legendary cloak + amp trinket away from doing it pretty comfortably and then stacking mastery with the rest of your gear.

    edit:
    You have like almost the same exact gear set as me, but with a lower item level. haha I'm sure you can replace your gloves with mastery ones, get the legendary cloak and amp trinket, and you'll be golden.
    Last edited by krazyito65; 2014-01-10 at 06:57 PM.

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •