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  1. #361
    @Zaritte
    Typically the Healing Touch glyph is not worth it. Even with sagemender you just don't cast HT enough to get much bang out of it.

    That being said - the regrowth gylph isn't amazing, it's just the best default choice for that 3rd slot...and it can easily be swapped out for another glyph, like the 30 yard speed roar, the 100% brez glyph or some other glyph that may be better in a specific situation. (Personally i use the roar glyph on a lot of fights)

    Ask the druid his/her reasoning. I wouldn't decline the app for that one reason alone.

  2. #362
    Thanks for the response. But what about not using regrowth? Should regrowth not be used at all?

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    I don't think that number is all that suitable to druids or progression. The "perfect" scenario as a druid is to go OOM ten seconds before the boss dies, because your HoTs keep on ticking and the spells you cast in those last ten seconds aren't going to make any difference anyway. You'll of course need some buffer for unforeseeable events that cause you to spend more mana on a particular attempt, but you shouldn't be aiming to have mana to spare at the end of the fight. Unless someone died after you went OOM, you going OOM was not a problem and the higher amount of throughput stats your low spirit allowed you to stack may have saved one or more life earlier in the fight. If someone does die because you go OOM, it's still possible that lower spirit would have been more helpful as higher throughput stats let you do more healing with fewer spells, thus saving mana.

    I would recommend testing lowering your spirit by about 1k each week until it's a problem. It takes a bit of getting used to and people who have always over-stacked spirit may feel uncomfortable with a mostly empty bar, but you'll gain a lot of throughput stats. If you never get any "not enough mana" messages on progression content, you have too much spirit.
    Why would you argue the fact that you should end the fight with 0% mana rather than 10%, but then say you should also have more for a buffer in case things go bad? Its like you reply just to get your post count up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaritte View Post
    Thanks for the response. But what about not using regrowth? Should regrowth not be used at all?
    No, Regrowth should be your goto spell for any spike damage if Sagemender isn't up. HT with the 2p is nice, but it does nothing on fights where the tank needs spike healing and you are the only healer left alive with mana - or you are healing the 2nd tower on Galakras. In this case, you may get off 2 instant HT's, but then you need to ask yourself which is better? a 10% crit chance HT that takes 2 seconds to cast, or a 100% crit chance regrowth that takes 1 second to cast?

  4. #364

    Little help? =)

    Hi I'm a 556 resto druid and I'm currently 14/14 experience in SoO normal and my guild is looking to move into heroics soon. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at my gear and helping me decide if my Gear would be optimal to go for the 13,163 breakpoint. Now normally my ilevel of gear would be able to do this without a problem but I have a lot of Crit gear that is really making me hesitate with it. = / I just need help deciding if it's worth it.
    Sorry I'm new to Mmo Champ postings so I'm not allowed to post a link to my armory but my character name is ITHILLIAN on Area-52 U.S.
    as you will notice I'm currently only 44 points of haste over the 3043 cap. and I'm trying to stack as much mastery as possible.

  5. #365
    To get ur 13k HBP build u'd loose 600 point of intellect, 420ish spirit and around 8.8k mastery.

    Dunno, u may find urself loosing some throughput with such stats.

    If u raid with a resto shams (and one ore more priest) u can ditch some spirit (dunno, around 13k in such setup is more then fine) and get back some of the lost mastery.

    Personally, i'd stick with a mastery build 'till u have a proper set of pieces to support a 13k build; and for sure not before ur Legendary Meta and Back.
    Blanketing the raid is what make the 13k haste build that strong and pretending to rej spam in ur upcoming heroic progression is quite suicidal without the LMG.
    OFC this is imho and i've no mathematical evidences to back myself up.

    Anyway, if you want a good stress-test for ur 13k haste setup, try to make a normal Immerseus with 2 healers and some of the orbs pulsing to increase the raid damage by a good margin, and watch if u can handle it. If u can, then u're good to go.

  6. #366
    I guess I should explain we have a really strong Shadow Priest that usually has my Symbio for fights that are more healing intense. we use a Paladin healer as our second healer and the priest is working on a disc set for her OS to heal with us for some of the heroic encounters. I have 2 healed Thok with our Hpally who has his cloak and meta but is 551 in his holy spec because it was originally an OS. I hope this helps explain our raid comp as far as healing goes.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuous View Post
    Hi I'm a 556 resto druid and I'm currently 14/14 experience in SoO normal and my guild is looking to move into heroics soon. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at my gear and helping me decide if my Gear would be optimal to go for the 13,163 breakpoint. Now normally my ilevel of gear would be able to do this without a problem but I have a lot of Crit gear that is really making me hesitate with it. = / I just need help deciding if it's worth it.
    Sorry I'm new to Mmo Champ postings so I'm not allowed to post a link to my armory but my character name is ITHILLIAN on Area-52 U.S.
    as you will notice I'm currently only 44 points of haste over the 3043 cap. and I'm trying to stack as much mastery as possible.
    Depends really on how many other healers you run and what kind of healers are they. On fights where we have to 6 heal my guild has 3 Resto Druids, 1 Resto Shaman, 1 Holy Paladin/Priest and 1 Disc Priest so I don't really feel the need to go for the higher haste breakpoint with how many throughput healers we have. Now if we decided to drop a healer (particularly the Disc Priest for some odd reason) I would go above and beyond in getting that 13136 breakpoint to make up for the loss of throughput.

    Edit: Should have looked at the last post in thread before mine. On fights where you're 3 healing it's really up to you if you go Mastery or Haste. If you choose to 2 heal then go Haste and not worry as much about your Spirit.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuous View Post
    I guess I should explain we have a really strong Shadow Priest that usually has my Symbio for fights that are more healing intense. we use a Paladin healer as our second healer and the priest is working on a disc set for her OS to heal with us for some of the heroic encounters. I have 2 healed Thok with our Hpally who has his cloak and meta but is 551 in his holy spec because it was originally an OS. I hope this helps explain our raid comp as far as healing goes.
    Just an fyi, but the tranq given by symbiosis heals for fuck all (<1 million), which for such a long channel is just utter shit. Halo or VE are much better tools for the spriest to use if they want to push some off heals out.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by quizzlemanizzle View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to share a little Flex story.

    I created a group for flex 4, myself playing and ilvl540 restoration druid. While creating the group I was asked by another forming group to join groups to start and I agreed. We were 12 people, 3 healers. The average ilvl of the group outside of me was 560+, the other 2 healers were a 570 priest and a 565 restoration shaman, plus we were using TS.
    On blackfuse there was litereally nothing for me to heal and then the priest starts whispering me "that the druid is waste". On Klaxxi nothing really to heal either. The raid was moving forward without any problems but then we started wiping 8 times on Garrosh under 10% each time because people were not interrupted. One time we wiped because we did the stack tactic with 3 healers and my tranquility was on cooldown when a bunch of people died during concentrated AOE.

    Then suddenly the priest starts to bitch about me in the raid chat because he had twice as much healing as me, suggesting that I was half-assing and doing nothing. I told him to shut up and that the healing meter is useless when there is nothing to heal for 90% of the time especially as a Druid and that we never wipe because of heal.
    Then after 2 more wipes where I pulled 80k hps and the random priest and shaman in much better gear did 120k and 140k the raid leader whispered me they would have to remove me if I don't perform better on the healmeter. I was like WTF, I know I am a pretty good player and doing my job here and helped put together the group. I explained to him that as a druid it is no wonder that I have 200% overheal when the priest and shaman heal everything with their direct heals and diving aegis before my hots can really tick even.
    They did not listen to me as I suspect the priest who started bitching after blackfuse already worked the whisper channels with other people to make them feel like I was the reason the group was struggling so they removed me from the instance group at Garrosh. They wiped at least 2 times more after that I left the raid group.

    (I one-shotted Garrosh after that with a random OQ-group that I created without teamspeak)

    I am pretty sure I am right on this and they were wrong but someone who has been playing restoration druid for longer might tell me different. I think there is no way a resto druid could come close to healing efficiency of other healers in an overhealing situation at a 30ilvl difference evens. The nature of hots working over time results in overhealing.
    Show this to the next uneducated idiot you come across who thinks meters are the true extent of healing.

    http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=3686

    Thanks to Mythriz for the sig!
    Find me on Icy-Veins
    Guide to analyzing a restoration druid
    Feel free to ask me questions about healers.
    I have mained a Druid and a monk, but know a decent amount about each as a raid leader.

  10. #370
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    Why would you argue the fact that you should end the fight with 0% mana rather than 10%, but then say you should also have more for a buffer in case things go bad? Its like you reply just to get your post count up.
    My point is that while having a buffer is nice, you should never aim to have 10% mana left at the end of the fight. That's never useful in itself. Your goal should be to go OOM ten seconds before the fight ends. You are going to need some kind of buffer to avoid going OOM a full minute before the boss dies, but you'll have to figure out on your own exactly what that buffer is. The key part is that going out of mana is not a bad thing unless someone actually died because of it. Even then, more spirit wouldn't necessarily have helped as that would mean you'd have slightly less throughput for the entire fight and may end up spending more mana just to keep up.

    You should be going out of mana, as any mana you have left at the end of the fight is useless (and any HoT still ticking when the boss dies is partially wasted). You should also always be using potions on progression content, and unless you're using an intellect potion (which can be handy on fights like heroic Juggernaut), you should be reforging your spirit around using a mana potion and still going out of mana after that.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    My point is that while having a buffer is nice, you should never aim to have 10% mana left at the end of the fight. That's never useful in itself. Your goal should be to go OOM ten seconds before the fight ends. You are going to need some kind of buffer to avoid going OOM a full minute before the boss dies, but you'll have to figure out on your own exactly what that buffer is. The key part is that going out of mana is not a bad thing unless someone actually died because of it. Even then, more spirit wouldn't necessarily have helped as that would mean you'd have slightly less throughput for the entire fight and may end up spending more mana just to keep up.

    You should be going out of mana, as any mana you have left at the end of the fight is useless (and any HoT still ticking when the boss dies is partially wasted). You should also always be using potions on progression content, and unless you're using an intellect potion (which can be handy on fights like heroic Juggernaut), you should be reforging your spirit around using a mana potion and still going out of mana after that.
    Aiming to run out of mana every single fight is moronic and just plain bad advice. Especially during progression. During progression things go badly, often enough to up the spirit requirement to finish a fight. If your guild is still working on progression, they are likely not going to only be working on one heroic boss at a time. As you well know, there are fights that are heavy on mana requirements, and fights that are easier on those requirements. There are fights that last less than 5 minutes, and some that last 10. Aiming to run out of mana every single fight would require you to regem and reforge after every boss.

    The only difference between running completely out of mana a minute before the kill, and ending the fight with 10% mana is something going wrong during a pull. A wall placed badly, a misused hero/BL, a healer using their cool down too early, a healer dying, a tank dying, etc. You can tell your raid "well this went wrong and I didn't have the extra mana to deal with that going wrong so I ran out and we wiped at 1%", or you can tell your raid "man am I glad I decided that extra spirit was worth getting. I barely had enough mana to deal with that going wrong, but we got the kill because I thought ahead and planned for it going wrong!" If none of the examples I provided has EVER happened on a progression kill for anyone else, let me know and I will gladly shut up.

  12. #372
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    There are fights that last less than 5 minutes, and some that last 10. Aiming to run out of mana every single fight would require you to regem and reforge after every boss.
    As would aiming to be at 10% or 20% or any other number. It's not a problem that's in any way unique to aiming at ending with zero mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    The only difference between running completely out of mana a minute before the kill, and ending the fight with 10% mana is something going wrong during a pull.
    Assuming you can magically pull spirit out of thin air, yes. In practice, no. It all comes down to opportunity cost. Every point of mana above zero comes from extra spirit, which comes at the cost of the other stats you could have reforged to. The less spirit you have, the more mastery you have. The bigger your mana buffer is, the smaller your "throughput buffer" is. The more you worry about whether you'll have enough mana at the end of the fight, the more you have to worry about whether you can keep up the HPS on the intense phases. And there are a million little things that can go wrong during an intense phase that increases the healing requirements slightly, and spirit won't help with that when you're already using every GCD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    A wall placed badly, a misused hero/BL, a healer using their cool down too early, a healer dying, a tank dying, etc.
    All of these can lead to you needing to push more throughput on a moment's notice. You can tell your raid "well, this went wrong and I don't have the throughput to deal with it because I stacked extra spirit instead in case something else went wrong and we wiped at 1%", or you can just deal with it. Not every problem is one that you can throw mana at to solve. Most of them aren't. If you've ever wiped because a healer died halfway through or you messed up and took a raid wide hit at the wrong time and you almost managed to heal through it, you wiped because you had too much spirit and not enough throughput. It just may not be obvious at the time. Even doing a little bit more HPS and saving one or two more DPS can be the difference between a kill and a close wipe.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  13. #373
    The amount of bickering in this GUIDE thread is getting ridiculous. If you guys don't mind, take it to PMs or create a new thread to flex your peens about theoretical numbers and all that. We all agree you need enough mana to finish the fight with no deaths. That number varies wildly between each druid and there is NO use arguing about it here. It's beyond annoying. This is a guide to get a feel for resto druids and ask clarifying questions. I hate seeing a new post in here, clicking on it, and seeing more useless crap about this. It's not helpful to new druids because it makes it feel overwhelming. The way you guys are explaining it makes it seem like you have to have an exact number. If you're too high you're a scrub that's wasting points on regen instead of throughput. If you go too low, you'll be oom 3 seconds into the fight and you're a scrub because you didn't put enough points into regen instead of throughput. I'd certainly feel overwhelmed coming in here with all the hostility between you guys and I'd honestly find help else where. If someone can't even get through the comments on a basic druid guide, what makes you think they'd post a thread asking questions?


    /steps off soapbox

  14. #374
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    Hi ! I'm levelling a resto druid and I have to say... I don't really know what to do with the glyphs... they all seems so weak ? I don't know... I find them not great at all and I'm like : i won't bother getting them. I'm sure I'm wrong but yeah... Don't really know what to take --"

    About the talents. Will Incarnation be useful in SoO ? Or you can be just fine with the treants ?
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  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Hi ! I'm levelling a resto druid and I have to say... I don't really know what to do with the glyphs... they all seems so weak ? I don't know... I find them not great at all and I'm like : i won't bother getting them. I'm sure I'm wrong but yeah... Don't really know what to take --"

    About the talents. Will Incarnation be useful in SoO ? Or you can be just fine with the treants ?
    The following I've found to be the most useful glyphs for SoO:

    Efflorescence (Major)
    Wild Growth (Major)
    Regrowth (Major)
    Stampeding Roar (Major)
    Rebirh (Major)
    Sprouting Mushroom (Minor)

    The only one I'd consider mandatory for 10 and 25 is Efflorescence while the others either have situational usefulness in both sizes (Stampeding Roar) or are better in one size over another (Wild Growth unglyphed for 10, glyphed for 25); pick what you need based on the fight and raid comp, for example Malkorok can favor Rebirth since it'll bring a person back to full life rather than 60% which is fairly helpful during the Miasma phase.

    As for Incarnation I haven't used that talent since T14 really. Only fight in SoO I can think of where it'd be helpful would be Iron Juggernaut for the Siege phase since it provides bonus armor, lets you get Lifebloom on multiple people and let's you emergency Regrowth if needed. Normally I just run with Nature's Vigil. HotW I see use on Galakras and Nazgrim because of the burst healing being helpful on the former's phase 2 and the fact that a badly used Nature's Vigil on Nazgrim can cause him to generate Rage during Defensive Stance.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-01-22 at 05:07 PM.

  16. #376
    the treants/incarnation/SotF tier is all fairly close unless a cooldown lines up really well for certain mechanics (treants for whirls, incarnation for desp measures/IJ, SotF for sustained dmg), but regardless, I'm pretty sure people have seen success with almost every resto drood talent on every heroic SoO fight from this forum alone (other than displacer beast, that shit is mad broken)

    also I really like incarnation for healing the galakras ground group with blanket lifebloom as well as on IJ, it's pretty nice if you need healing at a specific point (also good for desperate measures on protectors), unless there's lower damage for a while, it's usually not worth it to blanket lifebloom

    for lower content and where treants are performing smart healing and have the advantage of being able to keep single specific targets healed repeatedly, can also be used well with all of the intellect procs this tier (I really only like it for sha and naz), it might also be stronger when you're playing with tanks that aren't too great yet at the active mitigation/cooldowns game

    and SotF is a ton of extra healing on WG if used well, if not, it's still ok if used on random rejuvs, you can also get some cheap healing out of it if you use it on lifebloom (or refresh lifebloom using another spell buffed with it) to get a few extra clear casts during low damage (excels in pretty much every fight the others don't)

    they all have niches, but none are so powerful that they really amazingly out-do others (technically on paper, sotf does actually does a fair deal better than the alternatives, but it also has a relatively higher tendency to overheal outside of some later heroics)

  17. #377
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Hi ! I'm levelling a resto druid and I have to say... I don't really know what to do with the glyphs... they all seems so weak ? I don't know... I find them not great at all and I'm like : i won't bother getting them. I'm sure I'm wrong but yeah... Don't really know what to take --"
    The Efflorescence glyph is ridiculously good, to the point of basically being mandatory. Getting 100% uptime means it's going to be doing 15-20% of your total healing. There is never any reason not to take it in PvE. Glyph of Wild Growth is also excellent: you get better AoE burst and since each cast heals for more you save both mana and GCDs. The glyph also has great synergy with the Soul of the Forest talent, giving you +100% haste on six targets. Beyond those two, all other glyphs are rather unimportant and unimpressive. Glyph of Regrowth is probably the most useful one, unless you need Glyph of Stampeding Roar for some tactic. Sprouting Mushroom and Grace are the only minor glyphs that make any difference, so I recommend getting both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    About the talents. Will Incarnation be useful in SoO ? Or you can be just fine with the treants ?
    Soul of the Forest, Incarnation and Force of Nature all have their uses depending on the fight. SotF is a bit better overall, but I would recommend switching depending on your needs. The same goes for the level 90 talent tier: Heart of the Wild and Nature's Vigil are both good (Dream of Cenarius is useless, though). Bring a stack of respec books and switch as you see fit.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  18. #378
    This guide is awesome!

  19. #379
    Field Marshal Jolty92's Avatar
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    Hey there folks, I was wondering. Is there anything I can increase my healing with, more like reforges etc. I know I do need gear "of course" but what I meant was with my current gear.

    Link: Kátten - Sylvanas

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolty92 View Post
    Hey there folks, I was wondering. Is there anything I can increase my healing with, more like reforges etc. I know I do need gear "of course" but what I meant was with my current gear.

    Link: Kátten - Sylvanas
    Why so many spirit gems? You should be getting plenty of spirit just from your gear and whatever blue sockets u are have.

    You could easily drop a ton of spirit from gems and put that into mastery/haste(if needed for bp)/int and give your healing output a big boost.
    For example:All those purple gems in red sockets? Use orange int/mastery gems, solid mastery in yellow sockets and prismatic, and mastery/spirit greens in blue sockets only.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2014-01-29 at 07:55 PM.

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