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  1. #21
    If the way people kill Ra-den isn't the way Blizzard intended, what did they really mean for the boss to do?

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    Hard no....insane hard ..yes. I think i had 150 wipes there till we downed him.

    150 wipes are insane? Ragnaros 25HC says Hi.

  3. #23
    Some guilds still managed to not down him in their first 30 tries xD
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleh View Post
    If the way people kill Ra-den isn't the way Blizzard intended, what did they really mean for the boss to do?
    They meant for you to balance in between the Anima and Vita phases. Instead, you can just stay in the Vita phase for 3 balls, let the 4th hit, and then repeat indefinitely. It requires a lot of coordination, but cuts out most of the damage.

  5. #25
    High Overlord Zyphenz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    My guild is hardcore. First group is pure hardcore, top-in-the-world raiders. We are second group, progresing at our own pace. And MY GROUP is semi-hardcore. Way better than casuals but worse than hardcore gamers. And Ra-den itself is faceroll. Especially compared to Lei Shen. But to be clear just to reach him isn't faceroll. It requires a well-organized group of players with decent gear. And it is achievement. But when you reach it, Ra-den is faceroll.



    Nope ;] You can wipe it just before 5%. For example when your healer dies before this phase and only one left. Or on low health someone (our warrior ^^) detonates bubble. Or someone use BL too early, and healers got OOM and out CDs. Or someone screw queue with debuff and boss dmg done is increased. It's hard to wipe but it's possible
    Its just plain not possible to wipe on 5%, since he dies on 5.5%

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting. Killed after boss is out ..what? 10 weeks? With the second group. 15 attempts. After exactly 662 other guilds have done it. Your definition of faceroll?

    What is this? I don't even.....
    When someone says content is too easy, it's not an objective statement about difficulty. He's just trying to say how good he is. The OP's post is a textbook example of that.

  7. #27
    @Zyphenz
    I don't have screen, but DMB said "wipe on 5%". I know it's impossible, but not for DBM. And us I remeber wipe on Ultraxion HC at 60k, so It was about 0,01%. Maybe similar situation here. Maybe it was 5,56% or 5,6%. Just extremly unlucky.

    @Bullshot
    God damn you all. I DIDN'T SAY THAT CONTENT IS TOO EASY! I said that Ra-den is too easy as last boss. But it has already been explained why it is not.
    Last edited by dzidek; 2013-07-24 at 08:41 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer. I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group. I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group. Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke. C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders. But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%). In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange. There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
    Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses. Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction. In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment. I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours. Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics.

    What is point of this boss? TF gear source? Reward for killing Lei Shen?
    i don´t unterstand your questions.

    -you outgear him
    -you ARE a hardcore wow nerd
    -blizz stated his purpose already

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    If that was the cause he wouldn't be the boss with the realm first or immortal achievement. And when you consider the fight as it was intended to be it obviously was attempting to be more challenging than Lei Shen. The 'optional' tag was just an excuse for not putting it into LFR. Do you really think the forums could take the end boss of an instance kept exclusively to heroic in the current game?

    Sinestra wasn't harder than Cho'gall as well. Seriously, that dragon was such a pushover compared to the crap before her.

    Ra-den is very similar.

    I very much like the concept of having a bonus boss on heroic

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    What is point of this boss? TF gear source? Reward for killing Lei Shen?
    If you had read anything since ToT was released you'd know the answer to this. He is a "bonus" boss that is a reward for the hard work on lei shen. He was never meant to be Algalon hard or a stumbling block for guilds who got to him. Plenty of those top 25 guilds killed him on their first try without having seen the fight first hand. That's saying something. Enjoy your loot and end of tier farming, stop complaining.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Aiushtha's Avatar
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    Although my raid team is yet to see him (9/13hc atm) i believe he is made more as a reward boss than a difficulty boss.

    He has rather interesting lore in store for those that are into lore, and just plain thunderforged stuff for people who dont much care for the lore. Although, now that i think about it, the same could been said about Algalon.

    I feel like this boss was doomed from the start. Without actual player testing the devs had no real reason to believe people would cheese the orbs, and if they had players testing it, then it would have been just another hc boss. Either way - didnt work out as planned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    150 wipes are insane? Ragnaros 25HC says Hi.
    Oh my... the memories... the terrible, terrible memories!
    Honor on the battlefield? What a joke.
    Military graveyards the world over are filled with DEAD, BRAINWASHED soliders,
    That were promisied eternal glory and eternal honor on the battlefield,
    You tell me of the honored dead...

  12. #32
    basically, heroics and heroic-only bosses are pretty much easier to access just like legendaries. done.

  13. #33
    They never fixed the strategy of completely ignoring one of the phases AFAIK?..
    He was a bonus boss, but still he's boring :? Easy or not, interesting or not.. Blizz screw up with him IMHO.. they should have fix him quickly after people started to use "clever game mechanics" to beat him :?
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    They never fixed the strategy of completely ignoring one of the phases AFAIK?..
    He was a bonus boss, but still he's boring :? Easy or not, interesting or not.. Blizz screw up with him IMHO.. they should have fix him quickly after people started to use "clever game mechanics" to beat him :?
    What? This leaves them 2 options:
    1) Remove the kills from people that already killed him "Sorry guys, didn't quite do it how we planned!"
    2) Leave the original kills intact but change the boss to make later kills massively harder

    I don't think you thought it through. Blizz don't tune stuff that's been killed harder afaik, only easier.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    What? This leaves them 2 options:
    1) Remove the kills from people that already killed him "Sorry guys, didn't quite do it how we planned!"
    2) Leave the original kills intact but change the boss to make later kills massively harder

    I don't think you thought it through. Blizz don't tune stuff that's been killed harder afaik, only easier.
    Ra-Den wasn't killed in 1 day, even not in 1 week. Paragon killed him after 3 or 4 resets.. Method took over 2 resets. Top guilds are said to be observed by GMs while they are fighting the boss. Blizz knew about that tactic before the guilds actually killed them and they could have either fix it with hotfix (don't think they would with 30 attemts on fight), they could have fix him on maintenance day (I have no idea why they didn't). I thought it through and I have no idea why Blizz haven't fix it, unless they didn't care how they were killing him and didn't notice until the videos were released (I doubt)..

    Plus - before the release of ToT Blizz said that if the limited attempts would be problematic they would disable it.. Yet they didn't do it, even though it would allow them to hotfix the boss easier :?
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    You can't wipe to Ra-Den p2. Moreover, you can't wipe at 5% - the fight ends right there.

    Is this a joke?
    Indeed lol, how exactly do you wipe on second phase? (Unless half the raid died in p1 ofc.. :P)

    Personally I think it's fun to have a simple, but fun fight to wrap up the tier, rewarding you with mad swag thunderforged BiS lewtz
    Last edited by ChugChug; 2013-07-24 at 09:42 AM.

  17. #37
    Top 25 guild-raider complains Ra-den is faceroll, I stopped reading there.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting. Killed after boss is out ..what? 10 weeks? With the second group. 15 attempts. After exactly 662 other guilds have done it. Your definition of faceroll?

    What is this? I don't even.....
    Scrubbusters had #8 world kill on Lei Shen, so they're basically a top 10 guild. They raid 19.00-23.00 or something like that. I would call that semi-hardcore. Granted, they're among the best players in the game, but I see a hardcore group as people who dedicated whole days to the raids until they've downed the bosses. Just because they're more skilled doesn't mean they are hardcore.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by mofi View Post
    - you outgear him
    -you ARE a hardcore wow nerd
    -blizz stated his purpose already
    1) You can now have 540ilvl without a complete heroic equipment and being the last of such a raid, Ra Den should require at least what we can expect of a player who acquired some 549 stuff. Thus, outgearing him with so little is somehow disappointing.
    2) Why do people keep saying that a player who has seen Ra Den HAS TO be a hardcore one ? It doesn't work like that because if you have a good group (not necessarily a hardcore one) you can acquire excellent gear little by little and the most importance pieces aren't necessarily on the last bosses (ie trinkets, except for Lei Shen's) . Insulting someone that is able to see a content you seem incapable to reach is just an attempt to not question your raid group.
    3) Did Blizz intend the encounter to be fought the way it is ? In my opinion, this makes less likely some new optionnal bosses (even though I believe there would be one in SoO) because they can't be considered as free treasures. They should have some interesting mechanisms and here, it's completely ruined by a possibility to avoid a part of those techniques.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Sinestra wasn't harder than Cho'gall as well. Seriously, that dragon was such a pushover compared to the crap before her.

    Ra-den is very similar.

    I very much like the concept of having a bonus boss on heroic
    Not sure if you were 25 Man or 10 Man, but Sinestra 10 Man was actually hard for our healers, Wrack doing the same damage and afflicting the same number of people as in 25 Man wasn't too helpful. I'll agree that the DPS requirements were "meh". We got her to 8% I believe before the haste buff wore off. But really, in that tier, only Cho'gall was something I'd consider "hard", and definitely harder than Sinestra.

    OT: I also like optional bosses and Blizzard did make it clear that Ra-den was not supposed to be the big baddie, rather, Lei Shen was supposed to be and he was. Furthermore, I don't believe a lot, if any guilds who killed him actually used the intended tactic Blizzard had in mind. By this I mean that every guild I know who killed him, including mine did the "skipping anima phase" tactic. That particular problem came into being by not allowing PTR testing on him, which was the whole point about him.

    In conclusion, I have no idea why there are people who are actually annoyed and therefore care enough to be annoyed that the optional boss wasn't the hardest. That wasn't the plan and that has never been the plan. (Looking at you Algalon.)

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