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  1. #1

    Ra-Den 10M = faceroll now

    First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer. I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group. I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group. Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke. C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders. But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%). In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange. There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
    Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses. Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction. In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment. I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours. Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics.

    What is point of this boss? TF gear source? Reward for killing Lei Shen?

  2. #2
    Ra-den was always faceroll. The point of the boss was that it was meant to be an unknown entity, something that wasn't tested. But, Method came up with the strat to kill a ball and have the boss soak to reset his debuffs. Blizzard came out and said this:

    "Ra-Den didn't work out completely as envisioned. The sense of mystery associated with a boss that no one knows anything about is nice, making the content a bonus prize for defeating Lei Shen. It was hard to balance and test without the regular player testing, which resulted in clever use of game mechanics to defeat Ra-Den. Normally hotfixes would have been used to solve the problem, but limited attempts made it a more complicated situation.[3]"

    So to cut it to the cloth, Blizzard knew that limited attempts on this boss would screw over pre-existing raiders who had been here before, and hotfixing the boss during tries would have the same effect.

  3. #3
    The fact that his dungeon journal was leaked before the patch helped a bit. I think

  4. #4
    Ra-Den is NOT meant to be as difficult as Lei Shen. He is there as a special surprise / addition for Heroic raiders that make it that far. Blizzard said going in that he wasn't the real end boss. He was just extra. Lei Shen was the true end boss and he was damn hard for it.

  5. #5
    Heh "bonus prize for defeating Lei Shen"... And everything is clear

  6. #6
    It was an "experimental" limited attempt boss that Blizz admitted didn't turn out how they planned. Besides this, tactics are now well known and technically you overgear it. Limited attempt bosses are going to be numbers checks by Blizz's own admission, not brutal co-ordination checks.

    You aren't really offering any new insights.

  7. #7
    Algalon really wasn't that challenging... the hour limit on attempts made him seem challenging, but the fight itself was not a hard fight. It was much easier than, say, firefighter, and really just on par with the the rest of the medium difficulty hard modes in Ulduar. (I killed Algalon while he was still current content, prior to being able to outgear it.)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fizyx View Post
    Algalon really wasn't that challenging... the hour limit on attempts made him seem challenging, but the fight itself was not a hard fight. It was much easier than, say, firefighter, and really just on par with the the rest of the medium difficulty hard modes in Ulduar. (I killed Algalon while he was still current content, prior to being able to outgear it.)
    Same here, and I agree. Firefighter was a lot harder than Algalon, and Yogg+0 was 100 times harder than Algalon.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer. I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group. I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group. Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke. C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders. But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%). In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange. There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
    Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses. Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction. In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment. I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours. Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics.

    What is point of this boss? TF gear source? Reward for killing Lei Shen?
    It's a reward for killing Lei Shen. Even if the boss didn't turn out to be how Blizzard planned it, it was also planned to be fairly easy and the Thunder King to be the true end boss of this raiding tier. He's just a loot pinata. You are 10ilvls+ higher than people when they first killed it but even then it was supposed to be fairly easy.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/02/17/ra...ited-attempts/ -> Article

    Important part:
    "When I say that Ra-den is a "bonus boss" I'm not saying he's optional. Of course I know there's no such thing as an optional boss in progression, and people are very much going to count him as part of the progression race. But if you think back to Algalon, he actually wasn't that complicated, or that hard. Firefighter, Freya with 3 Keepers, or Yogg-1 required you to learn and coordinate far more than Algalon. Algalon literally had three mechanics to deal with for the entire fight, and in practice most guilds killed him in around 3 hours or a couple dozen attempts. It's just that they were tuned tightly numbers-wise, and the one-hour weekly limit turned what would have otherwise been a single night of progression into three or four weeks. Heroic Lei Shen is a harder and more complex fight than Ra-den, and I'm not going to claim otherwise. Ra-den is just different; he's a bit of a mystery, and something we haven't tried in a while."

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Descense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Same here, and I agree. Firefighter was a lot harder than Algalon, and Yogg+0 was 100 times harder than Algalon.
    Hard no....insane hard ..yes. I think i had 150 wipes there till we downed him.

  11. #11
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer. I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group. I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group. Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke. C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders. But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%). In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange. There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
    Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses. Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction. In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment. I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours. Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics.

    What is point of this boss? TF gear source? Reward for killing Lei Shen?
    Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting. Killed after boss is out ..what? 10 weeks? With the second group. 15 attempts. After exactly 662 other guilds have done it. Your definition of faceroll?

    What is this? I don't even.....
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    Ra-Den is NOT meant to be as difficult as Lei Shen. He is there as a special surprise / addition for Heroic raiders that make it that far. Blizzard said going in that he wasn't the real end boss. He was just extra. Lei Shen was the true end boss and he was damn hard for it.
    If that was the cause he wouldn't be the boss with the realm first or immortal achievement. And when you consider the fight as it was intended to be it obviously was attempting to be more challenging than Lei Shen. The 'optional' tag was just an excuse for not putting it into LFR. Do you really think the forums could take the end boss of an instance kept exclusively to heroic in the current game?

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    If that was the cause he wouldn't be the boss with the realm first or immortal achievement. And when you consider the fight as it was intended to be it obviously was attempting to be more challenging than Lei Shen. The 'optional' tag was just an excuse for not putting it into LFR. Do you really think the forums could take the end boss of an instance kept exclusively to heroic in the current game?
    They may have actually assumed that whoever killed Lei Shen first was going to kill Ra-Den first as well. This appears to be a pretty well founded opinion :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting. Killed after boss is out ..what? 10 weeks? With the second group. 15 attempts. After exactly 662 other guilds have done it. Your definition of faceroll?

    What is this? I don't even.....
    Puts them in the top 1.7 or so percent of 10-player progress ... people live in a bubble. All they see is what's around them, and not what the experience is like for most.

  15. #15
    Lei Shen shouldve had the realm first achievement : /

    Has anyone done ra-den the intended way of actually doing anima phases?
    Probably a really harsh numberscheck.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dainwork View Post
    Lei Shen shouldve had the realm first achievement : /
    This ^^!!
    I pity any guild that got Lie Shen 1st then lost the realm first achie on Ra Den.
    Daishan @ Saurfang EU
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  17. #17
    the whole "shrouded in mystery" thing became dumb after world 5th kills since people knew what to do beforehand

    and the whole killing red orb strat wasnt really intended but never got fixed

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%)
    You can't wipe to Ra-Den p2. Moreover, you can't wipe at 5% - the fight ends right there.

    Is this a joke?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting. Killed after boss is out ..what? 10 weeks? With the second group. 15 attempts. After exactly 662 other guilds have done it. Your definition of faceroll?

    What is this? I don't even.....
    My guild is hardcore. First group is pure hardcore, top-in-the-world raiders. We are second group, progresing at our own pace. And MY GROUP is semi-hardcore. Way better than casuals but worse than hardcore gamers. And Ra-den itself is faceroll. Especially compared to Lei Shen. But to be clear just to reach him isn't faceroll. It requires a well-organized group of players with decent gear. And it is achievement. But when you reach it, Ra-den is faceroll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    You can't wipe to Ra-Den p2. Moreover, you can't wipe at 5% - the fight ends right there.

    Is this a joke?
    Nope ;] You can wipe it just before 5%. For example when your healer dies before this phase and only one left. Or on low health someone (our warrior ^^) detonates bubble. Or someone use BL too early, and healers got OOM and out CDs. Or someone screw queue with debuff and boss dmg done is increased. It's hard to wipe but it's possible
    Last edited by dzidek; 2013-07-24 at 08:24 AM.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizyx View Post
    They may have actually assumed that whoever killed Lei Shen first was going to kill Ra-Den first as well. This appears to be a pretty well founded opinion :P
    'Well founded' in the way that Method got Ra-den down a week before Paragon despite a two day advantage? Would it be equally founded to suggest we put the realm first achievement this tier on Klaxxi since clearly whoever kills them first will get Garrosh?

    Your logic only functions as long as you assume that each realm only have one competitive guild, which isn't always true. Not to mention it's a stupid excuse for a pretty blatant flaw in Blizzard's reasoning. If it is an optional encounter it should not have the realm first achievement over Lei Shen.

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