whats the new DS glyph? sounds like you're talking about the new last tier talent.
i'm finding with soul link we're terrible targets now.. the problem is pet squishyness.. mines is just getting globaled every time i bring it out. it's a real problem now - if i don't get my re-summon and they swap me i just drop.
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edit - nevermind i read that wrong.. its empowered DS not DL that does that.. that's really interesting...a little buff to the execute and it now returns health.. hmm.
i don't really see the reason behind getting rid of this amazing talent. it was great for demo, since hellfire's self damage was just plain ridiculous. especially when you have alot of adds and need to aoe when your by yourself or solo'ing old content. It was useful for affliction too when ads would go down to fast for SoC to explode.
its not like it was op in pvp or like it messed up pulls or something in pve. in fact i was useful for self healing when your healer needed a little pressure taken off of them, you just harvest life and they dont have to worry about healing you as much
I just wish they could come up with an idea and not change it before the expansion ends.
READ and be less Ignorant.
This saddens me, as Harvest Life's current design is a handy tool I enjoy on my lock. Oh well.
I only use it soloing old content, don't see the need for this chgsnge. More fun/utility removed.
PTR tests :
glyphed - 47k heal per ticked in world
SB + glyph - 70k heal per tick
from 100k life to 550k [max health in pvp gear] - 1 channel.
^ those are all in world numbers so obv tack on th -45% fatigue for pvp. i was off with my guess of 28k but i knew it was low balling it - it's actually 39k in arena.
deals 19k dmg per tick.. doesnt seem to ever crit for some reason. dmg spread isnt as bad as i thought..it's a feasible choice imo.
some times DR will just be a better choice though.
Well it has been crap since forever.
It is inferior to the other 2 on all of the fights in terms of migtigation and self heal.
And I do like people defending it (after reading noxxic) and claiming its "the only good AoE demo got" (granted they are almost always the ones using chaos wave on singletarget aswell).
please don't get me wrong i do not mean your opinion on harvest life is wrong, just that its your opinion and seems to be not based on any facts. as least by saying harvest life is a useful aoe for demo because it doesn't do any self damage has some sort of reasoning behind it. please reconsider replying to these posts with less hostility towards players you do not know at all and have not attacked you verbally, we should all show respect to one another that's all im trying to say.
I agree that using Harvest Life in its AoE form was sub-optimal for damage, and I think Hellfire's self-damage is not really a big deal. On any AoE fight where you're warlock face tanking, I'd rather be able to kite/move than heal up to 5% health a tick. The Soul Harvest passive gives us plenty of sustained health for AoE grinding, and Healthstones/UE can function as healing cooldowns for any AoE that doesn't end almost instantly.
I posted a longer opinion about this topic in the 5.4 changes thread. In its current, post 5.2 (or 5.1) incarnation, Harvest Life does worse damage and no more demonic fury generation than Hellfire and is not really easier to target than Hellfire, which is already pretty easy to use. I think the new Harvest Life takes the utility aspects of the old talent and makes them universally applicable, instead of just the sub-case of AoE fighting.
Last edited by Zargul; 2013-07-25 at 12:59 AM.
What a simplistic view of a spell. A does more damage per tic than B so it's useless to use B. It's this kind of "/2 HAI GUYZ WUTS BEST SPEEL 2 USE????" simple minded idiocy that keeps people from using spells situationally. AoE farming I can just mindlessly spam harvest life while not really paying attention. Off-tanking it gives me AoE damage with threat plus the threat generated from self heals. It has also helped a few disoriented tanks to pick up an add they didn't notice except for that green laser shooting over into the dark corner at it.
Simple people need simple answers. Telling them a spell is situational usually results in them spewing profanity and saying that I'm the stupid one because OBVIOUSLY something has to be "the best one to use" every last time. This is one of the really big reasons I cancelled my WoW account. I'm tired of babysitting braindead idiots who can't think for themselves.
Ironically, while you complain about simplistic viewpoints, it sounds like you've caught some flak from people for using Harvest Life at inappropriate times. Yes, it has some uses. No, it's not the only way to accomplish those goals. Yes, it may be more "mindless" to press one button and turret (or run with a KJC snare) than to use other AoE abilities. Does it promote fun gameplay? Is it as universally useful for self-healing as the other talent options? I don't think the current design fits. I like the new one better.
The only legitimate argument in my mind for saving the old Harvest Life is to preserve the unique graphical effects. I will miss my Mannoroth's Fury Hand of Gul'dan meteor swarm in 5.4.
It's not the end of the world, but Harvest Life had it's uses, looked cool, and wasn't out of place in that talent tier in any way. I see no reason to change the talent, personally, even if it's use was more situational then the other 2 healing options on the tier.
They could have tweaked the talent in both healing and damage if they felt like the talent wasn't performing like it should, but they specifically chose to make it single target, and then adjust it. I'm still not sure why HL being an AoE was any kind of problem.
For farming low level stuff, I dunno, for a period of time in TBC even as demonology, putting 2-3 seeds on a pack and then pulsing one hellfire tick would wipe out a lot of packs of at-level mobs.
If mobs are going to live long enough where healing becomes a concern, maybe soulburn: seed + glyph of siphon life could work? It starts out pretty weak but ends up outscaling harvest life if there are enough mobs (like 20).
When I ran solo dungeons as demonology, I was either basically immune to damage or got overwhelmed pretty quickly. I don't see Harvest life as helping out there a great deal.
AoE drain life was a neat change they made and I thought the idea was cool in 5.0, but I'm not sure it's worth a competitive talent slot. Maybe it could get the holy nova treatment as a major glyph?
We'll get used to casting SoC and using Drain Life as filler to achieve sort of the same thing, but in running low level content with a guildie or 2 you'll be struggeling to have any influence on what's going on. SoC is usually slow to do much more then finish off the last bits or your target is killed before you get your cast off in the first place. Which leaves you with casting MG/DS (pitiful without dots) or spamming Fel Flame (which means you're not helping much again doing single target when the others AoE).
Harvest Life had a niche of quick AoE damage + a heal that could be used in various situations. I'm sure Improved Drain Life will have it's uses too, but why change the talent and not tweak it if it wasn't functioning right? What's the problem with the AoE part, is what I still don't get.
It's possible that warlocks were deemed to be 'too good at AoE' given some of the other changes happening in 5.4.