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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Baenesur View Post
    Harvest Life is being redone. Now increases damage on Drain Life by 50% and healing by 150%.
    That means that we will no longer see new warlocks spamming Harvest Life as their only AoE. That bothered me for AGES!
    I only do LFR, and I see alot of locks using that for their AoE. Whenever I told them how to do their appropriate AoE rotation, most of them just answer with "Harvest life is fine AoE damage". Which it really isn't!

    Well, also. Will this be time to consider using Harvest Life as a talent for soloing or even for raiding in general? Or will Soul Leech(Destro) and Dark Regen still be better?
    Did you complete the run? If so, it was fine. Quit telling others how you expect them to play and let them do what they want.

  2. #22
    Awww sheeeeet

    This will probably get nerfed in pvp though. But then again there are things like fatigue in pvp so it might even out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    If your math is right and it's in the 25-30k/tick, it will actually be viable against certain comps. Will be nice to have some of those self-sustain tools again: pillar with a pet and use DL to stay alive, spell lock a caster and DL the tick dmg, juke a non-CD solo melee and face tank for a few seconds, etc.

    Even without glyphing HS though, not sure there's gonna room to glyph DL - new Dark Soul glyph / new UE glyph are gonna be pretty important for some of our better comps (esp RLX and MLX since you're gonna have awesome openers and a second burst dmg window 1 min later). Choice is a good thing for sure - just hope we don't feel obligated to go all survivability with those choices, because we're too squish (worried about that still).
    yea i agree with the first part.

    whats the new DS glyph? sounds like you're talking about the new last tier talent.


    i'm finding with soul link we're terrible targets now.. the problem is pet squishyness.. mines is just getting globaled every time i bring it out. it's a real problem now - if i don't get my re-summon and they swap me i just drop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Awww sheeeeet

    This will probably get nerfed in pvp though. But then again there are things like fatigue in pvp so it might even out.
    i did some crappy battle fatigue math above.

    edit - nevermind i read that wrong.. its empowered DS not DL that does that.. that's really interesting...a little buff to the execute and it now returns health.. hmm.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-07-24 at 07:46 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  4. #24
    i don't really see the reason behind getting rid of this amazing talent. it was great for demo, since hellfire's self damage was just plain ridiculous. especially when you have alot of adds and need to aoe when your by yourself or solo'ing old content. It was useful for affliction too when ads would go down to fast for SoC to explode.

    its not like it was op in pvp or like it messed up pulls or something in pve. in fact i was useful for self healing when your healer needed a little pressure taken off of them, you just harvest life and they dont have to worry about healing you as much

  5. #25
    I just wish they could come up with an idea and not change it before the expansion ends.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  6. #26
    This saddens me, as Harvest Life's current design is a handy tool I enjoy on my lock. Oh well.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    I only use it soloing old content, don't see the need for this chgsnge. More fun/utility removed.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    whats the new DS glyph? sounds like you're talking about the new last tier talent.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Brain cramp. Yeah, was talking about the talent

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Brain cramp. Yeah, was talking about the talent
    ah ok makes more sense now

    anyways -

    PTR tests :

    talented:

    glyphed - 47k heal per ticked in world

    SB + glyph - 70k heal per tick

    from 100k life to 550k [max health in pvp gear] - 1 channel.

    ^ those are all in world numbers so obv tack on th -45% fatigue for pvp. i was off with my guess of 28k but i knew it was low balling it - it's actually 39k in arena.

    deals 19k dmg per tick.. doesnt seem to ever crit for some reason. dmg spread isnt as bad as i thought..it's a feasible choice imo.

    some times DR will just be a better choice though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  10. #30
    The Patient Ogawdspider's Avatar
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    I welcome this change. I was never a fan of Harvest life.. i missed the old Drain life and its moderate effectiveness. So as far as PvP goes i am happy for this change.
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  11. #31
    High Overlord Bobthemongol's Avatar
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    Well it has been crap since forever.

    It is inferior to the other 2 on all of the fights in terms of migtigation and self heal.
    And I do like people defending it (after reading noxxic) and claiming its "the only good AoE demo got" (granted they are almost always the ones using chaos wave on singletarget aswell).

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Did you complete the run? If so, it was fine. Quit telling others how you expect them to play and let them do what they want.
    If they did nothing at all the run would've been completed.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthekiller View Post
    Well it has been crap since forever.

    It is inferior to the other 2 on all of the fights in terms of migtigation and self heal.
    And I do like people defending it (after reading noxxic) and claiming its "the only good AoE demo got" (granted they are almost always the ones using chaos wave on singletarget aswell).
    wow your degradation of players who favor harvest life for aoe'ing when playing demo is not really needed and is based on your assumption that they just don't know how to play. as far as saying it is inferior to the other talents seems like pure hyperbole, those talents are all situational in fact if i recall correctly that is what blizzard was aiming for when they changed how our new talents worked.

    please don't get me wrong i do not mean your opinion on harvest life is wrong, just that its your opinion and seems to be not based on any facts. as least by saying harvest life is a useful aoe for demo because it doesn't do any self damage has some sort of reasoning behind it. please reconsider replying to these posts with less hostility towards players you do not know at all and have not attacked you verbally, we should all show respect to one another that's all im trying to say.

  14. #34
    I agree that using Harvest Life in its AoE form was sub-optimal for damage, and I think Hellfire's self-damage is not really a big deal. On any AoE fight where you're warlock face tanking, I'd rather be able to kite/move than heal up to 5% health a tick. The Soul Harvest passive gives us plenty of sustained health for AoE grinding, and Healthstones/UE can function as healing cooldowns for any AoE that doesn't end almost instantly.

    I posted a longer opinion about this topic in the 5.4 changes thread. In its current, post 5.2 (or 5.1) incarnation, Harvest Life does worse damage and no more demonic fury generation than Hellfire and is not really easier to target than Hellfire, which is already pretty easy to use. I think the new Harvest Life takes the utility aspects of the old talent and makes them universally applicable, instead of just the sub-case of AoE fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Well crap. HATE this change, like seriously. I loved Harvest Life in Affliction while soloing or doing old content. Seed of C is way too slow in set up, and Rain of Fire is much too localised and only does a crappy bit of damage in Affliction.
    ...
    Maybe I misread this, but I thought they were making seeds detonate quickly again in 5.4? That plus the MF seed synergy seems like Affliction without AoE Harvest Life may actually have the best short burst AoE.
    Last edited by Zargul; 2013-07-25 at 12:59 AM.

  15. #35
    What a simplistic view of a spell. A does more damage per tic than B so it's useless to use B. It's this kind of "/2 HAI GUYZ WUTS BEST SPEEL 2 USE????" simple minded idiocy that keeps people from using spells situationally. AoE farming I can just mindlessly spam harvest life while not really paying attention. Off-tanking it gives me AoE damage with threat plus the threat generated from self heals. It has also helped a few disoriented tanks to pick up an add they didn't notice except for that green laser shooting over into the dark corner at it.

    Simple people need simple answers. Telling them a spell is situational usually results in them spewing profanity and saying that I'm the stupid one because OBVIOUSLY something has to be "the best one to use" every last time. This is one of the really big reasons I cancelled my WoW account. I'm tired of babysitting braindead idiots who can't think for themselves.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo42 View Post
    What a simplistic view of a spell. A does more damage per tic than B so it's useless to use B. It's this kind of "/2 HAI GUYZ WUTS BEST SPEEL 2 USE????" simple minded idiocy that keeps people from using spells situationally. AoE farming I can just mindlessly spam harvest life while not really paying attention. Off-tanking it gives me AoE damage with threat plus the threat generated from self heals. It has also helped a few disoriented tanks to pick up an add they didn't notice except for that green laser shooting over into the dark corner at it.

    Simple people need simple answers. Telling them a spell is situational usually results in them spewing profanity and saying that I'm the stupid one because OBVIOUSLY something has to be "the best one to use" every last time. This is one of the really big reasons I cancelled my WoW account. I'm tired of babysitting braindead idiots who can't think for themselves.
    I don't think anyone is spewing profanity here. You can use the new Harvest Life to the same effect as the old one if you couple it with non-channeled AoE. It still heals for the same or more, and does more single-target damage. You can supplement your AoE damage with SoC, RoF, or HoG/Immo Aura while you drain life.

    Ironically, while you complain about simplistic viewpoints, it sounds like you've caught some flak from people for using Harvest Life at inappropriate times. Yes, it has some uses. No, it's not the only way to accomplish those goals. Yes, it may be more "mindless" to press one button and turret (or run with a KJC snare) than to use other AoE abilities. Does it promote fun gameplay? Is it as universally useful for self-healing as the other talent options? I don't think the current design fits. I like the new one better.

    The only legitimate argument in my mind for saving the old Harvest Life is to preserve the unique graphical effects. I will miss my Mannoroth's Fury Hand of Gul'dan meteor swarm in 5.4.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zargul View Post
    Maybe I misread this, but I thought they were making seeds detonate quickly again in 5.4? That plus the MF seed synergy seems like Affliction without AoE Harvest Life may actually have the best short burst AoE.
    Faster is still not instant, and SoC has no healing, so it's not as functional as HL was in low level dungeons/raids as an easy way to run around and clear trashpacks.

    It's not the end of the world, but Harvest Life had it's uses, looked cool, and wasn't out of place in that talent tier in any way. I see no reason to change the talent, personally, even if it's use was more situational then the other 2 healing options on the tier.

    They could have tweaked the talent in both healing and damage if they felt like the talent wasn't performing like it should, but they specifically chose to make it single target, and then adjust it. I'm still not sure why HL being an AoE was any kind of problem.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  18. #38
    For farming low level stuff, I dunno, for a period of time in TBC even as demonology, putting 2-3 seeds on a pack and then pulsing one hellfire tick would wipe out a lot of packs of at-level mobs.

    If mobs are going to live long enough where healing becomes a concern, maybe soulburn: seed + glyph of siphon life could work? It starts out pretty weak but ends up outscaling harvest life if there are enough mobs (like 20).

    When I ran solo dungeons as demonology, I was either basically immune to damage or got overwhelmed pretty quickly. I don't see Harvest life as helping out there a great deal.

    AoE drain life was a neat change they made and I thought the idea was cool in 5.0, but I'm not sure it's worth a competitive talent slot. Maybe it could get the holy nova treatment as a major glyph?

  19. #39
    We'll get used to casting SoC and using Drain Life as filler to achieve sort of the same thing, but in running low level content with a guildie or 2 you'll be struggeling to have any influence on what's going on. SoC is usually slow to do much more then finish off the last bits or your target is killed before you get your cast off in the first place. Which leaves you with casting MG/DS (pitiful without dots) or spamming Fel Flame (which means you're not helping much again doing single target when the others AoE).

    Harvest Life had a niche of quick AoE damage + a heal that could be used in various situations. I'm sure Improved Drain Life will have it's uses too, but why change the talent and not tweak it if it wasn't functioning right? What's the problem with the AoE part, is what I still don't get.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  20. #40
    It's possible that warlocks were deemed to be 'too good at AoE' given some of the other changes happening in 5.4.

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