1. #1
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111

    Another destro help thread...

    I know there's a bazillion threads on destro help, but rather than hijack an old thread I started a new, please don't flame me too bad. Now, a little backstory. I haven't done serious raiding any of MoP until now as I've found the free time and really want to get back in. I'm a min-maxxer and used Simcraft religiously in cata. I've read through many different forums and threads on the such and it seems that in ToT, mastery>haste>crit is the way to go due to cleave and CB/SB sniping, contrary to what Simcraft says.

    Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%86cium/simple
    Here's a log from my first normal ToT: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hi...mf7/details/1/

    My latest Simcraft results have crit as highest priority at 2.52, haste at 2.35 and mastery at 2.27, but this just seems wrong to me. Help out a fellow lock please!

  2. #2
    SimC is only as good as the APL. In the case of Destro, there's a few things that players can do intuitively that are difficult to code into the APL. The result is that SimC doesn't give you stat weights which revolve around cleave and SB sniping.

  3. #3
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174
    You and I have a similar ilvl and such as I just got back to raiding as well. I went Destro for my first week and my numbers were lack luster. My RL suggested I try affliction again (was aff in t14) and my numbers jumped quite substantially. While Destro may keep up at this ilvl, once you aquire more gear, the scaling of the two other specs far surpass it.

    From looking over your logs, the one fight destro really shines is Primordius, I cannot tell what the issue was, but even this gear level and pull some decent numbers.

    For more Destro builds you are going to see something the likes of GoServ w/ observer mast == haste > crit. If you decide to stay with demo, the more practice the better. I do not mean smacking a training dummy for hours on end because that just is not practical. Overall the Destro spec is the easiest of the three (some may say aff, but I beg to differ). Go into LFR and practice. Read all of the guides you can. There are a lot of good resouces stickied at the top of this thread that were a huge help to me.

    I would also suggest no matter what spec you go to get a really nice Weak Aura set up to keep track of all of your pertinent information. Maybe you already do this as you said you were a min/maxer, etc, but if not, just google Warlock Weak Auras.

    As far as really analyzing your logs, I cannot do that for you as I am not the best are reading them, but maybe some of this other information will help you.

    [EDIT] I did scroll through your logs a little bit more. Overall you need to keep your immolate up as much as possible. Primordius you had a good uptime, but it could use improvement on other encounters. You may have been dead, I couldn't tell but you did not Shadowburn a single time on Jin-rock. A couple other encounters where you can scumbag a lot of embers using shadowburn is Tortos and Primordius. If you see a bat or a slime low, shadowburn it, it will let you generate a lot more embers which you can use for more CB's or SB's.

    Like I said above, Destro shines on Primordius by utilizing Mannorath's Fury. Blanket the entire area around the boss and prepare to be able to spam CB's for literally the entire fight. [EDIT]

    Good luck!
    Last edited by TheBGreene; 2013-08-09 at 12:54 PM.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111
    Thanks for the fast replies. I do use Weak Auras to track temporary buffs/procs from enchants and trinkets, and try to line those up with DS and unleash CB/SB.

    We did not AoE or attack any oozes, we simply burned the boss for the achieve.

  5. #5
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Perne View Post
    Thanks for the fast replies. I do use Weak Auras to track temporary buffs/procs from enchants and trinkets, and try to line those up with DS and unleash CB/SB.

    We did not AoE or attack any oozes, we simply burned the boss for the achieve.
    I would also DL affdots and tidyplates if you do not have it. While it works best for affliction, it still monitors all of your important Destro info.

    Also, re: Primordius, while the burn strat is fine, you still want to spec Man. fury and keep RoF up 100% of the time for ember generation. You will literally be able to spam choas bolt and then SB non stop.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    Also, re: Primordius, while the burn strat is fine, you still want to spec Man. fury and keep RoF up 100% of the time for ember generation. You will literally be able to spam choas bolt and then SB non stop.
    This. Makes me giggle more than any person should.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    I would also DL affdots and tidyplates if you do not have it. While it works best for affliction, it still monitors all of your important Destro info.
    I actually use Forte Xorcist as my dot timer and I do use tidyplates as well. I've also regemmed/reforged for mastery and saw a significant boost in damage while doing dailies and heroics. Basically, I changed from int/hit in blue sockets to hit/mastery, and changed int/haste in yellow to straight mastery. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%86cium/simple

  8. #8
    Prior to obtaining the legendary meta gem, you stat priority is 15% hit > Mastery > Haste > Crit. Crit is by far the worst stat to obtain from gemming and reforging. What I did as a destro warlock to optimize my dps prior to obtaining the legendary meta gem was gem for mastery using the following gems:

    - Red: Intellect/Mastery
    - Blue: Mastery/Hit
    - Yellow: Mastery

    and reforge to haste. AVOID pure intellect gems. At your gear level, secondary stats such as mastery and haste outweigh intellect by a fair margin. If you use Reforgelite (which is a great addon btw for reforging), set the priority to 15% hit > Haste > Mastery > Crit and it'll set you up nicely.

    Once you obtain the legendary meta gem, you will switch over to haste gems along with haste reforges. Gems to use:

    - Red: Intellect/Haste
    - Blue: Haste/Hit
    - Yellow: Haste

    And your reforging should be the same as before.

    Aside from gemming and stats. I highly suggest that you keep Immolate up at least 98% of the time and aim for 100% uptime. Also, you NEED to use Rain of Fire more. From what I've seen, you range from 15% uptime to 35%. This is extremely low. Aim for more than 50% at the least. I generally have Rain of Fire going 85%+ most of the time. Rain of Fire is a great ability to use to gain embers, same with Immolate. Think of them as ember generators that need to be used as often as possible.

    Also, I noticed on Magaera that you use Havoc. Are you using those Havoc charges to spread your Immolate along with Incinerator/Conflagration? Also, you can place your Rain of Fire so that it hits both heads. Again, aim for a high uptime on Rain of Fire. You will want to aim for 100% Immolate Uptime on both heads along with 90%+ Rain of Fire uptime spread between both heads. I highly suggest you use the addon weak auras to make custom auras which help you track Rain of Fire, Immolate, Havoc, and other important abilities.

    I don't know what you do for an opener, however here is what I generally do to maximize dps from the start:

    3-5 seconds prior to pull (depending on how long it takes to cast Chaos Bolt along with travel time) make sure you use your potion, along with activating Dark Soul. Then proceed to cast Chaos Bolt. What you want to aim for is to have the Chaos Bolt flying towards the boss and hit right as the timer hits Zero, which is when the tank pulls. At the very least, have the Chaos Bolt in the air prior to pull. Then proceed with these abilities in this order:

    -Immolate
    -Curse of the Elements (If you don't have a Rogue)
    -Conflagrate
    -Rain of Fire
    -Conflagrate
    -Incinerate
    -Incinerate
    -Incinerate
    -Incinerate
    -Chaos Bolts (use all the embers you gained)
    -Proceed with rotation with 100% Immolate Uptime and 50%+ Rain of Fire uptime.

    Rules for Destruction Warlocks:
    - Don't cap out on embers.
    - Do NOT use Terrorguard on pull, use only on:
    - Last minute of fight, or
    - When boss enters the 20% phase, or
    - When something needs to die much faster

    As for pets, I suggest using the Glyph of Demon Training and use the Fel Imp. The Fel Imp will out perform the Observer on any fight that has any movement/target switching by far. From my experience, the Fel Imp provides more dps on all bosses in ToT. I've tested both for an extended period of time, along with checking logs.

    Take what you want from this info, I hope this helps =D

    P.S: Don't use Glyph of Darksoul.
    Last edited by Duran; 2013-08-11 at 09:33 AM.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111
    Thanks for the great info, Duran! Very comprehensive breakdown. I'll change my pure int gems out and change my reforges to haste. Is there a certain haste breakpoint for destro I should be shooting for? I had read that haste was the way to go once I get the meta and Breath of Hydra trink, but what about UVLS? I hope to get that soon, how would that affect my priority? I've read about demo multidotting with 100% crit Dooms and getting obscene amounts of imps from it. I'll make a few more changes and see how it goes. Thanks again for the great info!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Duran View Post
    Also, you NEED to use Rain of Fire more. From what I've seen, you range from 15% uptime to 35%. This is extremely low. Aim for more than 50% at the least. I generally have Rain of Fire going 85%+ most of the time. Rain of Fire is a great ability to use to gain embers, same with Immolate. Think of them as ember generators that need to be used as often as possible.
    I'd just like to reiterate this as it is very important for destro single target currently. RoF, even without large amounts of haste, still generates roughly 1/3 of your total emberbits and is necessary on single target.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Perne View Post
    Thanks for the great info, Duran! Very comprehensive breakdown. I'll change my pure int gems out and change my reforges to haste. Is there a certain haste breakpoint for destro I should be shooting for? I had read that haste was the way to go once I get the meta and Breath of Hydra trink, but what about UVLS? I hope to get that soon, how would that affect my priority? I've read about demo multidotting with 100% crit Dooms and getting obscene amounts of imps from it. I'll make a few more changes and see how it goes. Thanks again for the great info!
    There is no haste breakpoint for Destruction Warlocks that is worth acknowledging. Although, prior to obtaining the Legendary Meta Gem, I made it a point to be around 14% haste. It's a matter of personal preference. Aim for a haste amount that lets you not worry about mana as much between Chaos Bolts. Again, for myself, that was 14% haste. Also, do not forget the the more haste you have, the more RRPM trinkets proc + Legendary Meta Gem. Of course, this is changing somewhat in 5.4 if you keep up with the patch notes.

    As for UVLS, I have no clue. I've lost that trinket to multiple Shadow Priests, so I haven't had the luxury to do any experiments on it. Take the following advice with a gain of salt. UVLS for Destruction, there are multiple things it would help:

    - Incinerate: Critical hits from Incinerate will generate DOUBLE the embers.
    - Immolate: Critical hits generate a burning ember
    - Conflagrate: Same as Incinerate
    - Chaos Bolt: It will hit harder

    You can either prioritize Chaos Bolts when UVLS procs to make them hit harder, or you can do an Immolate along with a few Incinerates or Conflagrates. I believe that generating the embers from the UVLS proc would end up being more beneficial in the long run on boss fights. Especially if it procs while there are multiple adds or secondary bosses. You definitely want to prioritise Immolating as many as possible. Heck, you want to do that anyways without the proc.

    As for Demonology, UVLS is great. Just as you stated, putting multiple Dooms on multiple targets will generate an absurd amount of imps. I've been toying with the idea of going Demonology when I get the trinket. However, I won't know until I obtain the trinket and test it out myself.

    Again, I hope this helps. If I get the trinket this week, I'll test it out and will probably post on this thread stating what I have learned about it. I prefer to test things out myself

    Edit:

    Thoragar is right. I forgot to mention that it is a MUST to use Rain of Fire for single target fights.
    Last edited by Duran; 2013-08-11 at 09:36 AM.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111
    Yeah, i've been gimping myself by not using RoF as much as I should. I believe I saw in the 5.4 patch notes somewhere that it was being somewhat nerfed to be next to useless in the single target rotation though.

  13. #13
    Unless they make it only generate embers on 3+ targets, it will probably still be worth using. Even if the ember generation is much lower, it might still have a place in a single target rotation. However, it might be a small filler compared to how much we need it now. I just hope they make it so that you can't generate embers at all on single target fights. It's a pain to keep Rain of Fire down constantly.

    From what I see so far, Destruction in 5.4 is next to useless compared to the other specs. It needs a revamp, or at least something other than Chaos Bolt to use on heavy movement fights. I might be wrong though.
    Last edited by Duran; 2013-08-11 at 12:45 AM.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Perne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    111
    Yeah I'm not too excited about 5.4, other than raiding Org. I'll probably play around with the other two specs in the meantime, just to get used to them again, but I've always loved destro, even in early cata when it sucked.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •