For Demo locks... Imp Swarm Glyph

[justinmccray111]

Do you think Imp Swarm should be baseline?

Most of the warlocks in pvp or pve setting seem to always use this glyph.

And why did blizzard change this glyph to 4 Wild imps from 5 imps?

[Aschark]

Do you think Imp Swarm should be baseline?

Most of the warlocks in pvp or pve setting seem to always use this glyph.

And why did blizzard change this glyph to 4 Wild imps from 5 imps?

Should definitely become baseline, change the glyph to something cosmetic. As for the nerf, I have absolutely no idea. From 5 to 4 might have meaningful implications in terms of DF generation and haste scaling going into the next tier.

Seems kind of uncalled for at the moment though.

[justinmccray111]

Hmm, how much haste do you need to effectively change the cooldown on that glyph to 1 minute?

[JV Chequer]

Hmm, how much haste do you need to effectively change the cooldown on that glyph to 1 minute?

100% Probably.

But I'm not sure

[Bluesftw]

why its it always those fun things that get nerfed... imps and aoe drainlife...i mean kjc was justified but i dont see tha point of imps and harvest life nerf other than "dam those locks have too much fun playing, stop it asap!"

[JV Chequer]

Probably because Blizzard don't wanna any mandotory glyph or just because the Burst was too heavy.


H.life sucks btw.

[Zaelkath]

Gawwwwd yes. I was thinking of opening a thread like this myself. With the Lei Shen trinket it's almost retarded not to have everlasting affliction and imp swarm so that only leaves me with one slot left which sucks because I WANT dark apotheosis but I also really want glyph of healthstone to make life easier on the healers when I gotta life tap during heavy damage phases.

[xskarma]

Gawwwwd yes. I was thinking of opening a thread like this myself. With the Lei Shen trinket it's almost retarded not to have everlasting affliction and imp swarm so that only leaves me with one slot left which sucks because I WANT dark apotheosis but I also really want glyph of healthstone to make life easier on the healers when I gotta life tap during heavy damage phases.

Well they are allready reworking Everlasting Affliction, so you were probably allready 1 glyph down...


I agree with JV Chequer though, most likely due to burst or mandatory glyph that it got nerfed.

[Apero]

Yeah what about combustion, this mandatory glyph got reverted after some serious qq...

[rijn dael]

The nerf is probably a move to counter the high haste values we are reaching - since non-glyphed doesn't scale by haste, it becomes mandatory for overall dps, whereas in the current tier, you can justify skipping it on fights that aren't about burst (eg council).

That said, QQ I want 5.

[Zargul]

The nerf is probably a move to counter the high haste values we are reaching - since non-glyphed doesn't scale by haste, it becomes mandatory for overall dps, whereas in the current tier, you can justify skipping it on fights that aren't about burst (eg council).

That said, QQ I want 5.

Non-glyped Wild Imps does scale with haste, but it just doesn't have the opportunity to abuse short-term haste (or mastery) procs, such as the legendary meta gem or Bloodlust, as much.

Based on the fact that they added the 4-seconds-slower refresh to the glyph a few patches ago, the apparent intention of the glyph was to provide an alternative 'burst' play style with a drawback of slightly lower sustained damage. However, due to haste and mastery procs, the glyph still ended up being competitive for sustained damage and in some cases better than unglyped damage overall. This never seemed especially fun to me, and I rarely glyphed Wild Imps except for doing Brawler's Arena stuff or world PvP.

[Orloth]

100% Probably.

But I'm not sure

50%. 2:00 * .5 = 1:00

That's not actually difficult to do, base haste will be between 10 and 15% and you get 30% from the Meta proc.

The nerf is probably a move to counter the high haste values we are reaching - since non-glyphed doesn't scale by haste, it becomes mandatory for overall dps, whereas in the current tier, you can justify skipping it on fights that aren't about burst (eg council).

That said, QQ I want 5.

The non-glyphed version does scale with Haste, just not in the same way. The Glyph just allows you to apply short duration Haste buffs to the full two minute cycle, rather then on just one imp, at the cost of one imp every cycle (which you make up for by having faster cycles).

Without counting in Dark Soul syncing. All this changes is the amount of bonus Haste we need to gain on the cooldown in order for it to be be a net gain of imps, from ~17% to ~33%. This does not change the more important bonus of the glyph, which is still Dark Soul syncing. It just makes it slightly less powerful.

[Zargul]

50%. 2:00 * .5 = 1:00.

This is not how haste affects spell cooldowns, or else increasing haste values would have vastly increased returns.

It is in fact 100% haste for a 1 minute cooldown:

2.00 minute cooldown * (100% / 100% + 100%) = 1.0 minute cooldown

As an absurd example, if it worked the way you described, 100% haste would give you no cooldown.

[Hexotic]

With current 15000 haste, and meta gem procing, Imp swarm goes on a 1min 10 sec cd, with more haste in 5.4, that number can be less than a minute. Dark Soul is a 2 min cd with AD it has 2 charges. Amp trinket seems to be procing on a roughly 1 min cd from what I've seen and read (could be wrong here). Now putting all these together, you can technically have a dark souled imp swarm up every minute with amp trinket up.

I think this is the reasoning behind it all. If this is true, I am really angry since Blizzard clearly said we dont want mandatory talents, we dont want mandatory glyphs, and we dont want a spec to be only viable if you get lucky with a trinket drop. Demo had UVLS in 5.2, making it a mandatory trinket to have to play the spec. Now with amp trinket, we have another mandatory item, , imp swarm is still mandatory, and AD will be pretty much taken by every demo lock for 95% of the encounters.

[Kagecamia]

Yeah but that new Ice Flows is a croc of shit honestly.

The majority of their damage is instant proc's anyways. Why in the hell do they need to add mobility on top of it?

[Deleted]

Should definitely become baseline, change the glyph to something cosmetic. As for the nerf, I have absolutely no idea. From 5 to 4 might have meaningful implications in terms of DF generation and haste scaling going into the next tier.

Seems kind of uncalled for at the moment though.

ppl do realize that they already have it baseline in demonic calling, right? it will actually result in 1 more wild imp within the same time period All imp swarm really does is allow you to put out your imps up front instead of every X secs but i get your point, its mainly for the burst that imp swarm is used for.

- - - Updated - - -

With current 15000 haste, and meta gem procing, Imp swarm goes on a 1min 10 sec cd, with more haste in 5.4, that number can be less than a minute. Dark Soul is a 2 min cd with AD it has 2 charges. Amp trinket seems to be procing on a roughly 1 min cd from what I've seen and read (could be wrong here). Now putting all these together, you can technically have a dark souled imp swarm up every minute with amp trinket up.

I think this is the reasoning behind it all. If this is true, I am really angry since Blizzard clearly said we dont want mandatory talents, we dont want mandatory glyphs, and we dont want a spec to be only viable if you get lucky with a trinket drop. Demo had UVLS in 5.2, making it a mandatory trinket to have to play the spec. Now with amp trinket, we have another mandatory item, , imp swarm is still mandatory, and AD will be pretty much taken by every demo lock for 95% of the encounters.

well the amp trinket procs but you dont gain a buff from it since its been made static. i understand your anger. For Demo im certainly foreseeing UVLS continue to be BiS along with the amp trinket(with its proc removed, well not removed, you just get no bonus stats/crit dmg from it) bcoz of the simple fact that they have done nothing to change demo in a way that would cause UVLS to not be BiS.

EDIT: seems the amp trinket has gotten an int proc on it.

[Zargul]

With current 15000 haste, and meta gem procing, Imp swarm goes on a 1min 10 sec cd, with more haste in 5.4, that number can be less than a minute. Dark Soul is a 2 min cd with AD it has 2 charges. Amp trinket seems to be procing on a roughly 1 min cd from what I've seen and read (could be wrong here). Now putting all these together, you can technically have a dark souled imp swarm up every minute with amp trinket up.

I think this is the reasoning behind it all. If this is true, I am really angry since Blizzard clearly said we dont want mandatory talents, we dont want mandatory glyphs, and we dont want a spec to be only viable if you get lucky with a trinket drop. Demo had UVLS in 5.2, making it a mandatory trinket to have to play the spec. Now with amp trinket, we have another mandatory item, , imp swarm is still mandatory, and AD will be pretty much taken by every demo lock for 95% of the encounters.

AD doesn't give you 1 minute cooldown Dark Souls, it just gives you a "free" floating Dark Soul per fight, so it's more like 17% to 20% or 33% more Dark Souls, not double, depending on how long the fight is. From what I've read, the amplification trinket cool down is close to 2 minutes, if a little under (around 1:45 iirc).

I believe the intent of this change is to uncouple the meta gem and Dark Soul procs from Imp Swarm, so it's not a "dumb" choice where you just select the glyph for all circumstances because it's better damage than the rest of the glyphs.

[Hexotic]

Hmm, I see, I seem to be a little behind in some of the latest changes then Still, not happy lol. Anyone got a link to the latest version of the amp trinket?

EDIT: Oh, I see, yeah this is kinda interesting then. Prismatic Prison of Pride

[Orloth]

This is not how haste affects spell cooldowns, or else increasing haste values would have vastly increased returns.

It is in fact 100% haste for a 1 minute cooldown:

2.00 minute cooldown * (100% / 100% + 100%) = 1.0 minute cooldown

As an absurd example, if it worked the way you described, 100% haste would give you no cooldown.

I'm pretty sure your example is the absurd one, as you're equation doesn't even track with basic multiplication, much less algebra.

Would you mind explaining to me how it is supposed to work then, rather then spouting off a number that is impossible to get to and proving it with math that doesn't make sense?

It is my understanding that with current gear it is impossible to get anywhere near 100% haste with Haste rating, and considering Tempus Fugit and Bloodlust are both Multiplicative, they wouldn't get you to 100% either. I've gotten my Imp Swarm Cooldown as low as 40 seconds during Bloodlust, and around 1 minute elsewise and I don't play a troll, so please enlighten me, what math do you go by?

Edit: Sorry for sounding snide, but I am really curious how it actually works, if my understanding is in fact faulty. You're example illuminates nothing.

[rijn dael]

The non-glyphed version does scale with Haste, just not in the same way.

I stand corrected.. that makes me think of all sorts of things that won't work because we need the fury up front when fights start.

If it wasn't such an important cooldown for fury generation, holding off on Imp Swarm until just before the end of lust+meta proc could be interesting. Bah

Edit: Woo, my devilpost! 666