View Poll Results: Your opinion on the matter?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Stay in LFR.

    86 36.44%
  • Work to join us, with blood.

    39 16.53%
  • You don't deserve anything.

    59 25.00%
  • Unsubscribe, please.

    53 22.46%
  • We will let you in, if you have the cash.

    10 4.24%
  • My $15 is greater than your $15.

    15 6.36%
  • I think LFR should have the harder difficulties be queuable, but with walls.

    22 9.32%
  • Wait it out for soloing, please.

    17 7.20%
  • LFR should be removed. Then you'd quit!

    29 12.29%
  • Nope, sorry, you don't have the credentials.

    22 9.32%
  • It's like a job for a reason.

    26 11.02%
  • Keep the casuals out of my content!

    35 14.83%
  • Are you really that angry?

    77 32.63%
  • For suggesting that gates open, you pay us with your sorrow.

    10 4.24%
  • Other (Post in thread)

    37 15.68%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Angry Why are "my kind" considered trolls and forced to join guilds? (Venting/Rant Thread)

    (/begin rant)

    Let me describe a story for you guys.

    So, whenever someone like me posts a thread saying:

    Post-LFR difficulties should be queued for!
    They get this:

    Troll, random and hard don't mix, period.
    Apparently, I'm pigeonholed into "joining a raiding guild", which I am doing right now on Zul'jin-US. It will be a short time before I'm raid-ready, but I will do this content I am forced into for progression.

    I said it. "Forced". I'm doing it, but against my will in order to upgrade my gear and have fun. My character to be used for post-LFR raiding is Janthua: Zul'jin, and I know of my class' post-90 "homeworks" (Gemming, enchanting, reforging) via helpful guides, so I can join a "job" and do "work".

    You could say I'm a skilled casual who has forced himself to be hardcore. All because of this:

    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    In terms of game health, social groups > pugs > random matchmaking > not grouping at all. That last bit is why LFR exists.
    Translated into:

    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    In terms of game health, social groups (made of a metal so strong no man or machine can bring them down) > pugs (made of the second strongest metal, still unable to be taken down) > random matchmaking (LFR, no qualms)> not grouping at all (hence why soloing old content exists for those that can't get past the strong metals in premades).
    Social "walls" are impenetrable compared to Blizzard "walls". I'd rather have Blizzard "walls" than social "walls", but Battle.net's "forums" hate that. (Hence why I quoted "Troll, random and hard don't mix, period."

    And that's just me, and my personal experience. There could be many others like me out there, but they are being flamed into oblivion for their viewpoints. It could have just been a pre-made filling tool for you guys, and you would have flamed at it. I acknowledge openraid exists, but Blizzard put a lock on the current tier to prevent openraid from entering it, which should not exist in the first place. (As in, SoO will have a lock and ToT's lock will be lifted). Seriously, you flamed the Ra-Den-via-LFR thread into oblivion, locked it and deleted it.

    (/end rant)

    Share your experiences with "my kind" here, angry or not. You may also answer the question in the title.
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

  2. #2
    The experiences of almost 100% of groups created via queueing into normal or, god forbid, heroic raid content would be extremely negative.

    I hate to say it, especially considering I don't actually know you, but I'm almost sure that you would have no fun doing it. Nor would almost anybody else, unless they were severely masochistic.

    That's why finding a social group (or at the very least, a decent pug!) is so helpful. The coordination betters the experience for everybody involved, because without that coordination, the group would almost entirely fall apart trying to actually do content.

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  3. #3
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I don't honestly understand what you're saying. That's not a snarky comment- that's me expressing general confusion. I don't know what "post LFR queue" means and your post is not entirely clear what you're upset about.

    Are you saying you want to raid normal modes but are mad you can't find a regular group that doesn't require guild membership?
    Are you saying that normal modes are too hard to PuG?
    Are you saying you want the system to do random matchmaking for normal modes?
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  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    Eh, it's true though, the queueing system just wouldn't work in even normal raids. It'd be a nightmare. On heroic difficulty it'd be hell on earth.

    But hey, I'm fine with it if they implement queues for them. I wouldn't use them and I'd get hilarious horror stories to read on these forums from people who do.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I don't honestly understand what you're saying. That's not a snarky comment- that's me expressing general confusion. I don't know what "post LFR queue" means and your post is not entirely clear what you're upset about.

    Are you saying you want to raid normal modes but are mad you can't find a regular group that doesn't require guild membership?
    Are you saying that normal modes are too hard to PuG?
    Are you saying you want the system to do random matchmaking for normal modes?
    Think he wants to be able to queue for normal raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  6. #6
    First of all, OP, no one called you a troll. They are simply saying that queuing for normal/heroic raids wouldn't work because of trolls (and randoms, and the fact that it's harder).

    And that's exactly the reason why it would never work. The vast majority of players in LFR are not capable of handling normal-mode raiding -- they don't put out enough DPS, they stand in stuff, they go afk, and they, generally speaking, suck.

    Then you add trolls -- people intending to ruin the experience for others.

    Then you add randoms -- people who might think they know better than the others, people who won't get along with others, just random people.

    Finally, let's add the amount of time it takes for your average-below average normal mode player to actually learn content. It takes WEEKS of 2-4 hour raids for your average raid guild to get anywhere in ToT. Better guilds will progress faster. A random assortment of players? You'd be lucky if you killed Jin'rohk in one night, let alone Horridon. Do you really want to sit in a queue just to wipe hour after hour?

    That's why queuing for normals will never work. That's why, if you want to raid normals/heroics, you have to join a guild or do pugs. The difficulty is just too hard otherwise, and that's the way we like it.

    I mean, seriously, look at some of the posts you see right here on MMO-Champion about GUILDS that can't even get past normal Horridon. These players have a fine time with LFR, but they are incapable of progression in normals... and you want to queue for normals with players like this (and worse)? You wouldn't ever get anywhere unless you got extremely lucky by getting mixed in with a pre-made that actually knew what they were doing. Do you understand now?


    edit: Furthermore, you're not being forced into doing anything. You don't need normal mode gear. If you want it, you have to work for it. Otherwise, you are more than free to save up Valor for that gear and gold for craftables.

  7. #7
    I'm also kinda confused by this:
    I said it. "Forced". I'm doing it, but against my will in order to upgrade my gear and have fun. My character to be used for post-LFR raiding is Janthua: Zul'jin, and I know of my class' post-90 "homeworks" (Gemming, enchanting, reforging) via helpful guides, so I can join a "job" and do "work".
    I mean, I just don't get it. Do you find it fun, or don't you? It's a pretty binary thing, isn't it? You either enjoy the concept of prepping yourself to do more serious content and then downing that content, or you don't, and in the case of the latter, you'd be better off just not doing it, right? I mean, you're not going to enjoy raiding with a guild, you don't enjoy prepping your character, why do you think you're going to enjoy the payoff, when the payoff is essentially prepping your character for future content?

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  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Aven Ballantyne's Avatar
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    I think normal modes would work out if you could queue for it, as along as it has a higher ilvl requirement than LFR. Heroic would never happen though. Normal mode would also be a nightmare at first but I think people would adjust and overcome.

  9. #9
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I don't honestly understand what you're saying. That's not a snarky comment- that's me expressing general confusion. I don't know what "post LFR queue" means and your post is not entirely clear what you're upset about.

    Are you saying you want to raid normal modes but are mad you can't find a regular group that doesn't require guild membership?
    Are you saying that normal modes are too hard to PuG?
    Are you saying you want the system to do random matchmaking for normal modes?
    LFR is a difficulty. People have requested that Flex/Normal/Heroic be queuable, only to be met with flames.
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

  10. #10
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    Think he wants to be able to queue for normal raids.
    I think even if the system technically allowed that, there would be so little demand for it that queues would be abysmal.

    There's a reason PuGing is painful - it's because it takes awhile for players, even good ones, to get a feel for how to work together and to devise a strategy that works for them. People like raiding with friends and they like raiding with a regular group that feels like a real team, and doing so makes them a lot more successful at tackling challenges. Being placed with random strangers for normal mode difficulty is going to make normal mode even harder than it should be.

    You're better off trying to accomplish the same goals by joining a regular group or regular server PuGs. Neither of those necessitate a guild, much less a hardcore one.
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  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Tekkommo's Avatar
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    From my experience in LFR, being able to queue for Normal would be utter hell.

    Joining a guild to do normals is not hardcore btw and you might actually make some friends out of it and have fun. Although I doubt that because you sound like a cunt.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2013-07-25 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Berraant View Post
    LFR is a difficulty. People have requested that Flex/Normal/Heroic be queuable, only to be met with flames.
    If by "flames," you mean "accurate responses."

    Read my earlier post.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Berraant View Post
    forced himself
    And.... there it is..

  14. #14
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    Think he wants to be able to queue for normal raids.
    But not with a complete assembly of randoms, just a small amount in a mostly pre-made group.
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Berraant View Post
    LFR is a difficulty. People have requested that Flex/Normal/Heroic be queuable, only to be met with flames.
    Flex being queued for would be a bit awkward, since it would be hard for the system to try and form a group that was anything other than a full size 25man.

    Normal would be a nightmare, and Heroic would be... impossible. Absolutely impossible.

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  16. #16
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I think even if the system technically allowed that, there would be so little demand for it that queues would be abysmal.

    There's a reason PuGing is painful - it's because it takes awhile for players, even good ones, to get a feel for how to work together and to devise a strategy that works for them. People like raiding with friends and they like raiding with a regular group that feels like a real team, and doing so makes them a lot more successful at tackling challenges. Being placed with random strangers for normal mode difficulty is going to make normal mode even harder than it should be.

    You're better off trying to accomplish the same goals by joining a regular group or regular server PuGs. Neither of those necessitate a guild, much less a hardcore one.
    And I'm doing that. I am leveling the character I mentioned in the OP to do exactly that: "Social grouping".
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Berraant View Post
    But not with a complete assembly of randoms, just a small amount in a mostly pre-made group.
    So like say... queue for normals, but only in premade chunks of 5-man groups?

    While that sounds a little more feasible, the logistics would be a nightmare. The queues would be unimaginably long, too.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Berraant View Post
    But not with a complete assembly of randoms, just a small amount in a mostly pre-made group.
    How would this be any better than starting a trade-chat pug? In a queue, you get randoms that may or may not be totally terrible. In trade chat, you can at least armory them and see what kind of progress they have.

    Please, please, PLEASE read the reasons being provided to you. We're not saying that it's a bad idea just to flame you -- it really IS a bad idea and there are plenty of excellent reasons why it would not work.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    It's a game, you're not "forced" to do anything. What you do need to do is to find your happy place and make your peace with it. If you can't do that, you might need another game.

    Though normal modes are by no means hard, picture doing them with your average LFR raid group. You can't queue for normals for that reason alone. Flex mode will offer an alternative there.

  20. #20
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    First of all, OP, no one called you a troll. They are simply saying that queuing for normal/heroic raids wouldn't work because of trolls (and randoms, and the fact that it's harder).

    And that's exactly the reason why it would never work. The vast majority of players in LFR are not capable of handling normal-mode raiding -- they don't put out enough DPS, they stand in stuff, they go afk, and they, generally speaking, suck.

    Then you add trolls -- people intending to ruin the experience for others.

    Then you add randoms -- people who might think they know better than the others, people who won't get along with others, just random people.

    Finally, let's add the amount of time it takes for your average-below average normal mode player to actually learn content. It takes WEEKS of 2-4 hour raids for your average raid guild to get anywhere in ToT. Better guilds will progress faster. A random assortment of players? You'd be lucky if you killed Jin'rohk in one night, let alone Horridon. Do you really want to sit in a queue just to wipe hour after hour?

    That's why queuing for normals will never work. That's why, if you want to raid normals/heroics, you have to join a guild or do pugs. The difficulty is just too hard otherwise, and that's the way we like it.

    I mean, seriously, look at some of the posts you see right here on MMO-Champion about GUILDS that can't even get past normal Horridon. These players have a fine time with LFR, but they are incapable of progression in normals... and you want to queue for normals with players like this (and worse)? You wouldn't ever get anywhere unless you got extremely lucky by getting mixed in with a pre-made that actually knew what they were doing. Do you understand now?


    edit: Furthermore, you're not being forced into doing anything. You don't need normal mode gear. If you want it, you have to work for it. Otherwise, you are more than free to save up Valor for that gear and gold for craftables.
    I'm going up and working for it. Because as it stands, it is my only means of character progression to the point where I can solo older content that I could not before when they were current.
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

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