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  1. #181
    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ramin...130626/194933/

    Research has shown that putting even one intermediate currency between the consumer and real money, such as a “game gem” (premium currency), makes the consumer much less adept at assessing the value of the transaction.
    There you go, here is the reason for the "awesome Blizzard Battle Coin".
    There are no "security problems" when using credit that relates 1:1 to the customers real currency (wtf would make you think that in the first place?!). The only "problem" is that people are less likely to buy something for 3$ than for 750 Battle Coins even if both actually mean the same cost.
    Same reason why they put the shop directly into the game, the convenience of not having to leave the game is negligible, the point is to get people to spend their credit impulsively, having to alt-tab into a browser 1.) gives them time to realize what a freaking stupid thing they're about to do 2.) disconnects the purchase from the game, but the game->fun so with ingame shop purchases are associated with the game, therefore with fun, thus people enjoy spending extra $$$.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ramin...130626/194933/



    There you go, here is the reason for the "awesome Blizzard Battle Coin".
    There are no "security problems" when using credit that relates 1:1 to the customers real currency (wtf would make you think that in the first place?!). The only "problem" is that people are less likely to buy something for 3$ than for 750 Battle Coins even if both actually mean the same cost.
    Same reason why they put the shop directly into the game, the convenience of not having to leave the game is negligible, the point is to get people to spend their credit impulsively, having to alt-tab into a browser 1.) gives them time to realize what a freaking stupid thing they're about to do 2.) disconnects the purchase from the game, but the game->fun so with ingame shop purchases are associated with the game, therefore with fun, thus people enjoy spending extra $$$.
    ok it explains ... NOT why Diablo 3 has real currency in game : ) Explain

    ---

    But the coins system explains why a F2P game like Hearthstone will have access to the Blizzard shop by coins.

    Coins in this case is simply more conveniant to be used as a common currency between different Blizzard games to access the items.

    -----Something the article does not mention: same currency to access several different games and even complete different revenue models.

    So coins in this situation (spread over several different Blizzard games and revenue models) is even logical. Perhaps even a necessity.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-07-25 at 05:01 PM.

  3. #183
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    so how are the values looking? 1 coin per win and a pet costs about 150 coins?

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghul View Post
    so how are the values looking? 1 coin per win and a pet costs about 150 coins?
    We will just have to wait until both the new Blizzard shop and HS are launched.

    Beta HS can start any day now and since it is a rather small well defined game, I expect its launch around BlizzCon.

  5. #185
    It seems WOW is getting F2P, dunno if it's a good thing or not

  6. #186
    So why is no person here wondering why a Subscription based game like WOW is planning to add F2P like currency?

    Is it fair to subscribers to have to pay EXTRA into their game account to load some coins when they are already paying a sub?

    Is that likely to get new players to WOW when those players have to:

    a)buy the box
    b)buy the expansions
    c)pay the sub
    d)load account with extra currency
    e)buy stuff in ingame microtransaction shop?

    Would any new players be willing to do that when they can do just d) and e) these days and get good MMO experience in many of the F2P or b2P titles that run without sub?

    I don't think new players will even be looking at WOW considering that the game now has pretty low quality leveling experience at this point compared to the latest games. Blizzard can not have both F2P and Sub models running and acting like thats sort of convenience for the players. PPL will still have to tab out to load their accounts with these currencies. There is NO talk yet if those currencies can be earned ingame or if part of the sub fee automaticly goes into your coin account.

    What is NOT acceptable is if Blizzard is going to add ingame shop and charge subs if players that are paying that sub have ZERO ways of getting the items in the shop without paying extra. Personally I think Microtransaction in a sub based game (like seems to be the plan) will only lead to WOW loosing subs faster than ever before. And there wont be new players coming to fill the void so Blizzard will be relying on fewer and fewer players to use the ingame shop to keep the game running. Not great plan for the long term but shows that Blizzard are NOT thinking long term with WOW anymore.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2013-07-25 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    ok it explains ... NOT why Diablo 3 has real currency in game : ) Explain

    ---

    But the coins system explains why a F2P game like Hearthstone will have access to the Blizzard shop by coins.

    Coins in this case is simply more conveniant to be used as a common currency between different Blizzard games to access the items.

    -----Something the article does not mention: same currency to access several different games and even complete different revenue models.

    So coins in this situation (spread over several different Blizzard games and revenue models) is even logical. Perhaps even a necessity.
    The real money auction house was a big selling point for D3, at the time, and no doubt the fact we are seeing a completely different system introduced into WOW suggests that they do not believe that it would be as successful as an alternative currency. They, also, had trouble gaining authorisation to launch D3 with the RMAH in Korea where it was classed as gambling there is no way they would risk WOW falling foul of gambling legislation.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    ok it explains ... NOT why Diablo 3 has real currency in game : ) Explain
    D3 doesn't have a cash shop, it has a real money auction house that allows to trade items with other players. Blizzard doesn't sell any items on the RMAH, players do. Hence why they use the same value currency in D3 (Blizzard Balance = 1 Euro/USD/GBP etc).

    WoW cash shop only has items Blizzard sells, so it's a completely other things.

  9. #189
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    There's quite a lot of assuming going on here, not all of it by any means warranted.

    I agree that the Blizzard store will be for all of Blizzard's IP's including Hearthstone and the rest.

    I don't necessarily agree that Blizzard coins will be earnable in game or coming to US/Europe any time soon. I simply don't know about that and they haven't really said anything about the specifics of either what will be available in the US/Europe and how it will be obtained. Judging from other F2P titles, some sort of currency makes sense but whether or not you'll be able to earn them by doing things in-game is a pretty giant leap of faith unless they've said something in the last 48 hours that I've missed. Since there are no quotes in the OP to that effect I'm going to guess there aren't. It may happen, it may not. All of the new client strings may be there for testing purposes or perhaps it's simply easier to include them for all versions of the client. It's clear they will be likely in use for KR/CN but to just assume that everything will be this way everywhere really soon is too much.

    I think Blizzard will definitely be expanding the free portion of the game but whether or not they go full F2P or go F2P minus current expansion or go F2P/1-85 or some other schema remains to be seen.

    Too many assumptions and people talking about stuff as if it's all settled.

    EDIT: Someone needs to provide an actual link with someone from Blizzard talking specifics before I'm willing to think otherwise at this point. It seems to me there's an enormous amount of speculation in this thread being presented as settled fact.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-25 at 05:49 PM.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Gattsu125 View Post
    Heck, if you can earn it in game, cross game, they will likely put a soft-cap on it just like valor points in wow. Can only earn 100 coins on your account a week, need 1500 to buy a pet (100 coins is $1 or something like that); special conditions or milestones should not affect this cap. It should not be able to be bought, and just be a secondary currency, being something like a bonus. It should be 'in addition to' the blizzard balance, rather than replacing it.

    If you cannot earn them in game, well why implement a new currency system when the blizzard balance accomplishes the same exact thing? Because coins sound cooler?

    Edit: Math
    Because coins provide a layer of abstraction from the product to it's price in the mind of the consumer. The only surprising thing about this is that it's took Blizzard so long to have their own store currency; I can't think of any Western MMO publisher at this moment who doesn't have their own currency; GW2 uses gems, Funcom uses the imaginatively titled Funcom Points, and so on and so forth. While they all have differing implementations they fundamentally serve the same purpose (coupled with an in game item store)- to facilitate quick impulse purchases.

  11. #191
    Those very coins, or alternative currency, is one of primary features of microtransaction-based f2p games.

    Is it the sign that WoW will go f2p? Hopefully, otherwise payment system starts looking very ugly. Just see:
    1. You need to buy game.
    2. You need to buy expansions.
    3. You need to buy game time.
    4. You need to pay for any character movement services.
    5. Cash-shop attached with flashiest (and most expensive in comparison to other game shops) game items.
    6. Now alternative currency.
    Elements 1-3 is p2p part. Element 4 is mixed part. Elements 5 and 6 is f2p part. It's like Acti-Blizzard tries to take everything from all models and combine it in one.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Because coins provide a layer of abstraction from the product to it's price in the mind of the consumer. The only surprising thing about this is that it's took Blizzard so long to have their own store currency; I can't think of any Western MMO publisher at this moment who doesn't have their own currency; GW2 uses gems, Funcom uses the imaginatively titled Funcom Points, and so on and so forth. While they all have differing implementations they fundamentally serve the same purpose (coupled with an in game item store)- to facilitate quick impulse purchases.
    The reason why it took BLizzard this long to have their own currency... Cause they have not had any F2P games. And even if Heartstone is going F2P does not mean that it will be implemented into WOW.

    Like I said before. It does not help WOW in any way to have a sub fee and then ask the players to load special currency as well. Thats not convenient for the players and BLizzard should then either totally remove sub - or skip the extra currency and keep the game ingame shop free.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Those very coins, or alternative currency, is one of primary features of microtransaction-based f2p games.

    Is it the sign that WoW will go f2p? Hopefully, otherwise payment system starts looking very ugly. Just see:
    1. You need to buy game.
    2. You need to buy expansions.
    3. You need to buy game time.
    4. You need to pay for any character movement services.
    5. Cash-shop attached with flashiest (and most expensive in comparison to other game shops) game items.
    6. Now alternative currency.
    Elements 1-3 is p2p part. Element 4 is mixed part. Elements 5 and 6 is f2p part. It's like Acti-Blizzard tries to take everything from all models and combine it in one.
    Came here to post the same thing.

    They are either gonna transition to F2P with a huge swing towards blizzard shop, or continue as they are, IE milking the cow till it keels over and dies.
    My guess is towards the latter because at the end of the day, money trumps everything and if they can get more of it out of your wallet, they will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Like I said before. It does not help WOW in any way to have a sub fee and then ask the players to load special currency as well. Thats not convenient for the players and BLizzard should then either totally remove sub - or skip the extra currency and keep the game ingame shop free.
    People should open their minds to the idea that in a game that has 90 levels and will have more in the future, a substantial portion of that could be made F2P or even B2P without changing the rest from a subscription model. A shop would support that just fine if that's what they intend. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing.
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  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I think Blizzard will definitely be expanding the free portion of the game but whether or not they go full F2P or go F2P minus current expansion or go F2P/1-85 or some other schema remains to be seen.
    Even if they make 1-85 totally free... that will not really help WOW get new players that will be paying for higher levels. The first 85 lvls of the game have become terribly bland to say the least. The lack of variety in talent trees, unbalanced classes while leveling and very repetitive and grindy quest content will keep ppl away - rather than get them interested to play any further.

    What WOW needs to do is to rethink their original leveling curve. Taking the current 90 levels down to 45 would not hurt the game in any way. And it give a good chance to lower those big numbers that are multiplied with every new expansion. 2 expansions from now we will see items with 1000s of stamina.... and 100000000000 dmg if they go on like this.

    If Blizzard is planning to let new players pay for XPboosts to get through content that is no longer worth paying for.. then maybe... as a subscription game.. they need to take a look at the game from start and make that experience better for the subscribers. Cause even as a F2P content. Most of the latest F2P games offer much better and more balanced content than what Blizzard is doing when it comes to that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    People should open their minds to the idea that in a game that has 90 levels and will have more in the future, a substantial portion of that could be made F2P or even B2P without changing the rest from a subscription model. A shop would support that just fine if that's what they intend. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing.
    I much rather like to think that a sub game with 90 levels should restructure it so that the subs are getting the very best out of the game. EQ has done that few times cause expecting players to even play 5 year old content that is starting to lack pretty much everything that modern MMOs are offering.... is simply not acceptable.

    Thats why I think BLizzard did a big mistake with Cataclysm when they did not restructure the game so that you can level the entire character in Vanilla world and at faster phase. The new talent system has made the game very grindy to play with so little variety. And the leveling experience in WOW is simply not good enough cause the game is too focused on keeping new content fit into the old ... rather than change the old one and make it better. Its understandable that BLizzard thinks that way.... but it still leaves the game with very bland content that might leave alot of players walking away even before they get to high enough level to pay for the game.

    I think open mind is good. But to expect players to act like WOW is still the top quality gaming experience for MMOs while leveling.... is simply not gonna cut it. And to just add more stuff on top of already bland content (even if it becomes F2P) will do more bad than good. Specially when the new content has to be forced into the same model as the old one.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2013-07-25 at 06:40 PM.

  16. #196
    Cashshop currency can be traded between games of a publisher? Wouldn't that be just the same as every second cash shop currency in every MMO and other online games with a cash shop system ever before? F2P or P2P.

    Why should I be amazed about some dumb online card game? Nothing to do with WoW anway but milking IP. They are designed to make user spend money on their cash shop. All of them. Ocassional rewards with shop currency exist only to keep the user aware of the cash shop. You won 2 coins and check what you can buy. Prices then start at 10 coins for the weakest fluff items. 100 for some real shit. The payout is always much smaller than the prices of the cash shop items. The rest will be paid with hard cash. Playing the game will never be a viable option to earn currency for another game for more than a small group of player playing it professional. By design.

    And Ghostcrawler never said anything about only fluff items and never said no gear. Only items for convenience.
    XP booster are not fluff items, but for Blizzard they are convenience items. Gear is pretty convenient too...

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    As I said: impatient and never looking at the larger picture.

    CRZ is a master piece in technical achievement. You know it , I know it and what happens ? People stumble over peanuts.

    whaaam, I can not find my ore, Cry cry cry.

    The same happened to seamless phasing, years of endless moaning.

    But anno 2013 WoW has now seamless farming in the open world tx to this technique, WoW has pet battles, WoW has seamless cross server game play etc... Thanks.

    I could go on: the cross realm BG's, the new LFG tool.

    All whining for months, but when a NEW MMORPG came out that didn't have cross server dungeons, the world was not huge enough to complain in that world...

    Biased? Call me a realist. I know a technique when I see it and I know a short cut when I read about it.
    When will you finally understand that the word "seamless" (which you keep repeating so often) is not THE "be all end all" quality of an MMO game? I mean, sure, it is nice and all. But its just one feature out of plethora of mechanics and concepts that intertwine together to make the game good or bad (subjectively). Any form of reasoning with you ends up with more or less something like "But WoW is seamless, case closed, you failed". If all you need from a game is it to be seamless, good for you, enjoy what you please. But dont expect entire world to follow the twisted logic of cherrypicking a feature and declaring it an absolute. I could as well proclaim that SWTOR is the best MMO in the world becouse it has Jedi in it. And I actually know people who believe that with the difference that they dont claim it as an absolute virtue. No, they say that they like SWTOR best becouse it has best character storyline. And they dont care that engine is bad or things like that. All I would like from you is to acknowledge the existence of other games and the possibility that some people may like them more than WoW. But instead you have to keep throwing those people into the garbage bin with adnotation "morons who dont understand that WoW doesnt have loading screens". Absolutely disgusting.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Awe View Post
    When will you finally understand that the word "seamless" (which you keep repeating so often) is not THE "be all end all" quality of an MMO game? I mean, sure, it is nice and all. But its just one feature out of plethora of mechanics and concepts that intertwine together to make the game good or bad (subjectively). Any form of reasoning with you ends up with more or less something like "But WoW is seamless, case closed, you failed". If all you need from a game is it to be seamless, good for you, enjoy what you please. But dont expect entire world to follow the twisted logic of cherrypicking a feature and declaring it an absolute. I could as well proclaim that SWTOR is the best MMO in the world becouse it has Jedi in it. And I actually know people who believe that with the difference that they dont claim it as an absolute virtue. No, they say that they like SWTOR best becouse it has best character storyline. And they dont care that engine is bad or things like that. All I would like from you is to acknowledge the existence of other games and the possibility that some people may like them more than WoW. But instead you have to keep throwing those people into the garbage bin with adnotation "morons who dont understand that WoW doesnt have loading screens". Absolutely disgusting.
    Not to mention that WoW isn't as seamless as he implies; there have been occasions when I couldn't even enter, for example, the Barrens, but could go anywhere else; I've also had other players and mobs disappear when zoning (pre-phasing, and post-phasing in non-phased areas); just because the transition is less apparent to most players doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    And I'm not even going to point out the numerous portals and other means of transportation that cause loading screens in WoW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Not to mention that WoW isn't as seamless as he implies; there have been occasions when I couldn't even enter, for example, the Barrens, but could go anywhere else; I've also had other players and mobs disappear when zoning (pre-phasing, and post-phasing in non-phased areas); just because the transition is less apparent to most players doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    And I'm not even going to point out the numerous portals and other means of transportation that cause loading screens in WoW.
    There's a big difference between loading screens at every continent vs every zone; the latter is much more apparent and not particularly well loved.

  20. #200
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    If Blizzard is planning to let new players pay for XPboosts to get through content that is no longer worth paying for.. then maybe... as a subscription game.. they need to take a look at the game from start and make that experience better for the subscribers. Cause even as a F2P content. Most of the latest F2P games offer much better and more balanced content than what Blizzard is doing when it comes to that.
    While having no idea at all about what they are thinking about when they get to the point where F2P becomes a 'more-or-less reality' it wouldn't overly surprise me to see them have something for those that continue to subscribe that will reduce greatly or even eliminate leveling for those at end game. It's something I would welcome although there would be the usual screams about P2W. Leveling is always an option of course for anyone that wishes to do it. But I can see some benefit to something like subscribers create-a-max-level character and then solve the social aspect of whether or not you can handle the class through something like whatever the proving grounds will look like in a year or two.

    Or Blizzard could surprise all of us completely with something that no one has thought of or layering on one or two original thoughts onto a bunch of ideas from elsewhere which is more their usual thing.
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