1. #1

    [PvP and Dailies] - Feral druids the kings of the world PvP?

    Like, really, I been trying to do my dailies for threee days and been meeting feral druids around (I play a mage) and I simply cannot kill a well played Feral. Is there something wrong with me or it is intended by design?
    I know I picked a PvP server, but is actually very frustrating still not beeing able to do your dailies simply for a bad game design.

    But.. I am a rogue.

  2. #2
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    I don't know if this is the case specifically, but you know, it could just be that ferals hard-counter mages, that wouldn't make it bad design. Are there bad design choices in WoW? Definitely. Is a feral beating you one of them? No, regardless of circumstance.

  3. #3
    I mean, as a feral druid myself, as well, I cant think of a class/spec combo that I could have troubles around those circumstances.

    But.. I am a rogue.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Contrary to popular belief, Mages are a horrible 1v1 class. They have way too many hard counters to be considered good in solo play. Ferals, Hunters, Disc Priests and Warlocks will take a shit on a Mage no matter how good the Mage is. A well played Unholy DK is also a nightmare for a Mage, but at least in that fight the Mage has somewhat of a chance to win.

    I'm not sure what counters Ferals in 1v1's. I'm going to say Unholy DK's and Warlocks have the best chance.
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  5. #5
    High Overlord jb247's Avatar
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    My main is a paladin, but I also have a mage, and I can verify that 1v1, if your opponent is equally geared and skilled, you will lose to every hunter, feral, warlock, DK, monk, retadin, and rogue in the world unless the mage gets the clear drop on you or you are otherwise preoccupied.

    As for feral druids, 99 percent of the time when I'm pet battling, doing dailies, etc. and I'm attacked, it's a FOTM feral. I use the term FOTM to convey how much I hate what they've done to what used to be a high skillcap, decently high reward spec, essentially dumbing it down and overpowering it to the point where helmeted children are essentially unstoppable when being annoying little snots out in the world.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvorea View Post
    Like, really, I been trying to do my dailies for threee days and been meeting feral druids around (I play a mage) and I simply cannot kill a well played Feral. Is there something wrong with me or it is intended by design?
    I know I picked a PvP server, but is actually very frustrating still not beeing able to do your dailies simply for a bad game design.
    Going to disagree with you on that. In any case they never balance pvp on a 1v1 basis, let alone World PVP. Working on my new frost mage and doing dailies I have to agree with jb247. Almost all ferals I meet are some combination of "new to"/"learning their class", or FOTM rerollers that find it's actually a decent amount of stuff to manage and can't play it properly.

    I'd say in open world frost and feral is evenly matched if you take two people of equal skill, but with an edge to the feral. Good warlocks are actually beastly world pvp'ers especially when they can get down good positioning on their portal. I've often feared people into packs of mobs, and that really pisses them off.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Ferals, quite simply put, counter a Frost mage like nothing else. They are immune to Polymorph, can instantly break out of ALL your freezes, quickly resets your stacking frostbolt damage buff, can put heavy hitting bleeds up on you and your pet and play defensively while you slowly die, charge right after you whenever you blink, quickly catch up to you if you use blazing speed, and have enough stuns/roots to keep you in place while they burst you.

    I've found that Fire mages are harder to deal with then Frost mages - especially when they get some good crits and put a whopping combust on me.

    But yea, overall, mages are weak in 1v1 pvp- they have the WORST self-healing ability out of all classes, nearly all of thier CC DRs with some other form of thier CC, and Polymorph restores health to the opponent, potentially healing them to full.
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  8. #8
    Actually most dangerous world pvp classes are those that: have powerfull cds, can pull special resource, are elusive. For example demo lock - run into one who've ton of demonic fury pulled, cds up and he'll destroy you in seconds. Another good example is WW monk - run into one with teb stacked and your chances to kill him are extremply slim, but unlike lock if things go back WW monk will make insane distance in couple moves, mount u8p and fly away. So in all honestly i won't put feral on world pvp kings throne, but they're definetly one of those hard to deal with classes.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    I've found that Fire mages are harder to deal with then Frost mages - especially when they get some good crits and put a whopping combust on me.
    This was what I was thinking too. The main utility frost has going for it is its extra root, but that's fully useless against any non-retarded druid. Fire more or less trades pet nova for dragon's breath, which will actually be effective against a feral. I don't think there's any chance of beating a good druid, but if he makes some mistakes you might be able to beat an average one as fire. You'll have to experiment to see what works (if anything), but my first attempt would go something like this:

    • Blink pounce.
    • Assuming he didn't waste his charge in stealth--you'd be dazed if he did--watch for charge.
    • As soon as he does, combusion him midair. You have to be fast here, because he'll probably half bash you instantly if he reconnects. You may well get a trinket here because people suck at the game.
    • Either way, from here you have a headstart to fish for a pyro proc. Move away and spam scorch.
    • Use ring of frost as a defense, but don't waste pom on it. If you aren't good at fakecasting maybe just use it if/when he locks a fire spell.
    • If he didn't thoughtlessly trinket your combustion stun or rof you have a good chance of getting it with a dragon's breath on his berserk, which he will probably use as soon as he connects.
    • If you don't get a trinket at this point, either the guy's a pve hero that doesn't have one or he's actually a decent player and you probably can't win.
    • It's probably a good idea to just block most of his berserk.
    • Your goal is to get him to use his trinket, put him in a deep, and hit him with four pyroblasts. You need a proc, pom, and alter time to do this. As I said he'll probably barkskin, but I'm hoping the damage is still enough to at least put him on the defensive.
    • Assuming that works out (and I realize it's a big assumption), he'll probably use heart. You have to prevent an ns heal here because it will top him. Unless he threw away ns earlier in the game you can blanket cs off your deep to prevent it. It's a good idea to actually let him out of the deep for an instant before using cs (i.e. don't overlap) because this can silence his ns, letting you steal it.

    I apologize if any of this is inaccurate. I've barely played a mage and never as fire, but hopefully I know enough about the game that some of this is useful.

  10. #10
    Sorry but ferals and hunters hardcounter mages. You're getting beaten by one of your bane classes/specs. It would be like my ww monk being ganked by a hunter.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Firebane's Avatar
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    Frankly, mages only beat Warriors and Forst DKs in a clear 1v1 setting.

    Ferals have great burst, great control 1v1, and amazing mobility. Ie: all the things needed to make them a killer 1v1 class.

    When we're camping Isle of Thunder with my mates, one of them is a feral and he nearly always owns everyone hardcore.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebane View Post
    Frankly, mages only beat Warriors and Forst DKs in a clear 1v1 setting.

    Ferals have great burst, great control 1v1, and amazing mobility. Ie: all the things needed to make them a killer 1v1 class.

    When we're camping Isle of Thunder with my mates, one of them is a feral and he nearly always owns everyone hardcore.
    He must be really good. I can't remember the last time I lost to any melee class as monk in 1v1. Faced plenty of ferals in arena in 1v1 occasions but they can't dps through my self heals and cds and soon they are forced into bear and that's just delaying the inevitable as the less damage they do, the more I heal myself.

    Also, it really depends how the pvp happens
    Is the target fighting mobs ?
    Is the target weak from fighting mobs ?
    Is the target a noob at pvp ?
    Is the target undergeared ?

    I suppose any stealth class can beat anything as long as least there is at least one Yes to these questions. In a fair 1v1, like a duel, ferals wouldn't be the kings.
    Last edited by Noggis; 2013-07-26 at 05:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Well, ferals are pretty good but no gods. My WW monk eats them for breakfast most of the time, its even easier in world pvp because theres no healing debuff as it is in BGs/Arena.

  14. #14
    Ferals are God Teir right now in every aspect. Next patch they will be everyone's bitch. Iconic balancing.

  15. #15
    It all boils down to rejuvenation. Ferals, Guardians, and Moonkin shouldn't even be able to use a heal-over-time. They should use regrowth or healing touch, a casted heal just like every other hybrid. They already have nature's swiftness, renewal, and cenarion ward all instant cast heals which is already too far overboard compared to the second in line - lay on hands by paladins which is second because of it's huge impractical cooldown.

  16. #16
    Once you fotm reroll to beat your old counters, you meet your new counters.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Feral hard counters mage unfortunately. And tbh mages aren't that strong in wPvP, especially not if people get the jump on you.

    Ferals also have it very easy because they can just kite you or go into stealth again with incarnation and heal themselves up to full with hotw.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MiLLeR View Post
    Ferals are God Teir right now in every aspect. Next patch they will be everyone's bitch. Iconic balancing.
    Apart from the Cyclone insta-cast removal on Predators Swiftness not a whole lot is changing for them right?
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DenniZ View Post
    Apart from the Cyclone insta-cast removal on Predators Swiftness not a whole lot is changing for them right?

    - No more instant cyclone meaning popping out of form to hard cast. Realistically it makes casting a 2nd and 3rd cyclone til DR meaningless because the next two cyclones will not last long enough for it to be worthwhile since you're losing time via global cooldown incurred when shifting back into form.

    - Nature's Swiftness has been removed, so all those big heals that Feral used to have that people complained about are gone. HOTW on it's own is decent but this was the big culprit that caused complaints. The NS talent also gave +25% (or was it 20%?) to the big heal when used in conjunction with NS. Coupled with HOTW this caused huge numbers.
    The other major culprit is actually MoU (glyphed) + Renewal, though not many people even know about it.

    - Force of Nature talent (Treants) no longer stun. I'd say this was by far the biggest problem with feral because it gave you a ranged stun on a short cooldown. Now they're pretty much useless as they will cast Entangling Roots.

    Those are the 3 big changes which will affect Feral quite negatively for Arena 3v3 and World PvP. RBG won't be a big difference since they weren't desired anyway. Though overall for World PvP Feral will be fine since they still retain their mobility. Since arena is a sandbox you can only run so far.

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