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  1. #1

    [Balance] Desperatly need help with haste breakpoints.

    Hi, I recently rolled boomkin and I've managed to make my way into a guild that is currently 12/12 Normal which puts me at 521 ilvl at the moment.
    I currently use askmrrobot as a tool for gemming, reforging and upgrades and my gear is now at the level where I can hit the 10289 Haste breakpoint.

    According to askmrrobot the process of regemming and reforging to hit this soft cap would put me at 25.66% crit (buffed) and 16.58% hit which seems a little insane.

    Last night I received 522 Hood of Smouldering Flesh from Megaera which puts my current setup at 16.78% hit, 33.05% crit, and 37.99% Haste. As of askmrrobot I cannot work around being so far over the hitcap.

    I was wondering if hitting the 10289 Haste breakpoint would be a noticeable dps increase since my crit goes down so much. My dps currently is quite good (Havent tested with the new helm, previously had 516 H scen helm which had me at approximately 15.48% hit).

    I've been trying to run simcraft/wrathcalcs all night but all I've got out of it is a headache. Simcrafts results show that if I use the new helm with my current setup I will lose dps. If I were to use the new helm while gemmed and reforged for the new haste breakpoint I get simulation failed.

    I'm sorry for my English and if anyone could help that would be great.

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Wallets/simple
    (I have a 522 Helm of Smouldering Flesh in my bag.)

    TL;DR"
    Cant decide whether or not I should go for the 10289 haste breakpoint as i'm worried I will lose dps. Also not sure if I should use the new helm I received due to it bringing me up to 16.78% hit from 15.48% hit.
    Spirestone - US

    80 Mage - Lethål
    80 Rogue - Lethalstelth

  2. #2
    I don't know the answer to your question but I would advise you to check out ReforgeLite (I would link it but I'm a new member and not allowed) It has set me up perfect with the preset for the first breakpoint and I have noticed a HUGE difference in my DPS.

  3. #3
    Your Armory isn't pulling up. Only way I'd advocate going for the 10289 haste is if you've gotten rid of the Shado Pan trinket. The high haste is a noticeable dps increase. Unfortunately, I have the same issue of having an incredibly high hit rating. Reforge out of spirit or hit whenever possible. Honestly I don't use ask mrrobot for gemming. It always wants me to put straight blue spirit gems into my blue slots instead of the int/hit or int/haste purple gems. The Balance thread in the forums gives you a pretty good format on what gems you should put in what slots. As for reforge, I use wowreforge, or just reforge by eye, making sure I stay at the haste cap and my hit stays at 15% minimum.

  4. #4
    Most of these websites suck abit for moonkin. Firstly use the Helm from megera, its way better then your current one for many reasons. Next (some people will disagree) it depends on how well you play with crit build etc, but you should want to hit the 10296 BP and still have atleast 8-10k crit in my opinion. If you can do that then go for it, and as you get more gear you will begin to build that crit up again.

    One piece of advice, lose the HC scenario gear as fast as possible, mostly because bar the head items, it has no gem slots, so if you compare your chest to one with 2 or even 3 gem slots, its a huge stat loss.

    All in all, go for it and see how it works out, you might need abit more gear, however if you are raiding consistently then you will gain this soon.


    Oh and this is his armory link i presume http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...llets/advanced

  5. #5
    Running wih 10.3k haste bp and 5-7k crit rating is more than sufficient. If you go below 5k crit to get the breakpoint, then just stick with crit until you are able to do so.
    Mew!

  6. #6
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Wallets/simple

    Another link^ should work.

    Also I prefer to not use reforgelite (I have the addon installed) because I don't think i'll be able to reach the breakpoint without gemming correctly. I also am not using the shado-pan trinket.

    Edit: thanks ragingblaze for the link just saw that now.
    Last edited by mattyc33; 2013-07-26 at 12:04 AM.
    Spirestone - US

    80 Mage - Lethål
    80 Rogue - Lethalstelth

  7. #7
    Rule of the thumb is to have Haste+Crit = ~15k at least to make the switch. At 15k stats you will see smoothness in rotation but essentially not big increase, except certain bosses. As crit starts stucking up again you will see a noticeable increase in dps and imo more than if you had the same amount of stats but all into crit (and keeping 5273 haste at least)

  8. #8
    I think its totally worth it to reach the 10,289 Haste and if possible going for the 10,296. My boomkin (who is outrageously geared) usually sits at about 13k haste and way to much crit than what I know what to do with...... With that being said I also made my switch earlier in the teir and I still maintained between 10-12k crit when I made the switch.

    I don't like using askmrrobot. I've heard its possible to get good results with it if you learn how to go in and tweek things appropriately. I don't know how and I know most people don't care to know how.... With that being said when I'm trying to plug and play and move things around without having to spend a lot of time, effort or gold I go to wowreforge..... The downside to the website is it doesn't allow you to put in gear upgrades and what not so its not perfect and napkin math is required. You however don't have but like 2 or 3 things upgraded so good news you can use the website fairly flawlessly I recommend going there it allows you to change your enchants/gems and then the stat weights and then ask it how it recommends you to reforge.... To show how easy it is, I did your character myself and it spit out results of you getting the 10,296 haste and 8k crit. (this was before adding in the helm btw) You can actually shift around what gear you equip and calculate it that way.

    From there take the time to input your character into wrath calcs (I'm not hugely a fan of how simcraft sims boomies) both with your current set up then with the new build with the haste high and then another with haste low. See what the dps output would be. yes it might take a long time but its not hard. I want to say there is a post on here that walks you through how to use wrath calcs.

    Keep in mind playing with less crit and more haste will change your timings for things. I know when I made the switch it felt funny and my mental timings were a little off so I do recommend doing drastic changes when you have time to beat on a dummy and maybe run a lfr or so just so you can get a feel for the way things feel. Then again thats just me I hope I helped at least a little. I wish you luck

  9. #9
    Hey Matty, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I wanted to stop by to make sure you know how to edit stat weights on our site, as well as export to SimC and test your DPS. Here's a few posts that might help you out:

    • How to edit stat weights (including using the haste breakpoint picker, turning on/off the 5% haste raid buff, etc)
    • Exporting to SimC (we have an export option so you can test the optimizations against your current gear and compare DPS). When you say SimC failed on you - were you using our export? If so, please give me as much info as possible so we can track down any errors. If not - give it a shot... our export makes the setup much easier.
    • Also, try turning on our beta optimizer (it's a new algorithm we've made that guarantees the best optimization of all your gems, enchants and reforges. The #1 best solution, AND it's faster!)


    If you have any questions, hit me up. I'm happy to help people learn how to use different parts of our site (since so much is tweakable!)

    Shayshay - if you tell me what you don't like or have any other feedback, I'd appreciate it. We are always improving on it, and love getting users input!
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
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  10. #10
    I honestly haven't used it at all this tier so I couldn't even begin to offer any valuable feedback other than that I've totally abandoned it for my boomkin. Overall I think its great for my alts who I don't wish to fully optimize nor have the time to sit down and run any kind of number simulations on... In general I just feel its asking a lot for any one program to give optimized always correct answers. Then again I've only ever really cared about my boomkin so maybe that holds true for all classes.... And like I said in my post I know it can be done that askmrrobot can do pretty good if the settings are tweeked I just never took the time to figure them out or learn them.

  11. #11
    Shayshay, what's your character name and realm? I'd like to try and do some tinkering (aka, nerd out in my spare time on friday)
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
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  12. #12
    Get the latest Wrathcalcs from elitistjerks and change the helms around and then you can change around you reforges to see how it would pan out. If you can maintain at least 5k crit, then going for the 10296 GCD cap is not a dps loss.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

  13. #13
    Thanks for all the help guys.

    The only problem I see with wow-reforge is that when I optimize to the haste cap it says it's not possible through reforges and this is due to me having an incorrect gem set-up. Would following the guidelines for gemming on the moonkin guide and then trying to optimize for the cap provide more accurate results?

    On another note, I can't import my character onto wrathcalcs so I manually entered my gear and gemming to discover I had no idea how to read the results, and got frustrated at the thought of manually changing all my reforges and gems again to try and find results for my new setup reaching the hastecap.
    Spirestone - US

    80 Mage - Lethål
    80 Rogue - Lethalstelth

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyc33 View Post
    Thanks for all the help guys.

    The only problem I see with wow-reforge is that when I optimize to the haste cap it says it's not possible through reforges and this is due to me having an incorrect gem set-up. Would following the guidelines for gemming on the moonkin guide and then trying to optimize for the cap provide more accurate results?

    On another note, I can't import my character onto wrathcalcs so I manually entered my gear and gemming to discover I had no idea how to read the results, and got frustrated at the thought of manually changing all my reforges and gems again to try and find results for my new setup reaching the hastecap.
    Following gemming guides blindly is useless, I don't think I've ever seen any mop moonkin guides that advise you to gem pure haste, but u might need to do that to reach the 10k haste bp. So just use a bit of common sense, figure out how much off the haste bp you are and swap in some int/haste, spirit/haste or pure haste gems.

    Or just use askmrrobot and edit the haste bp to 10296 and press optimize. Might not be the most optimal reforging Strat/ gemming Strat, but you can use it as a starting point or guideline.
    Mew!

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Mr Robot is perfectly fine for gemming and reforging, for example if you know want to be at the 5k cap or 10k cap (just set the one you want in "edit stat weights"). If you are borderline, it can't really make that decision for you (and in fact that could depend on your playstyle, like if you tend to waste SS procs and so forth).

    (Feedback for AskMrRobot guy) I think Mr. Robot undervalues the hit cap for boomies: missing a spell doesn't just mean lost dps on the spell, we also can lose our place in the eclipse rotation.

    As you get into early heroics, you might find that there is just nothing you can do to get rid of spell hit over cap. I completely ignore +spirit gem socketing bonuses and I still can't rid of enough spirit. It can sometimes be better to take weaker gear just because it doesn't have spell hit on it. I find Mr Robot does a good job of helping make that decision also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
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  16. #16
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    I don't personally use AskMrRobot simply because I find I can use WrathCalcs much easier for the same outcome. If you need help configuring or reading WrathCalcs, you can read the guide I posted here: WrathCalcs Guide.

    As posted earlier, typically you'll want 15k haste+crit before you convert over to the 10289 haste breakpoint. You'll see a slight DPS increase, but a real noticeable change to the speed of your cycles. If you can't just reforge for the haste breakpoint, start swapping over gems. It'll be a bit more expensive, but it's necessary at lower gear levels.

  17. #17
    Auloria, thanks for the feedback. One feature you might not be aware of - you can force the hit cap. It used to be in the option menu, which was a non-intuitive spot since it's related to stat weights. We have moved it to the stat weight editor. Click the 'edit weights' button, and on the right look for the check box to enable forcing the hit cap. That should do it for you
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
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  18. #18
    So I just reforged and regemmed and my current stats are (unbuffed):

    Haste: 10,358
    Hit: 16.78%
    Crit: 8684 (23.31%)
    Mastery: 2560 (23%)

    Does that look alright or is my crit still a little low for the build? I haven't been able to test it in raid yet.

    Also another quick question, I was reading over on the EJ forums and the guide there that has been updated for 5.3 says that FON is going to average more dps than NV (which I've been using). Is FoN a better choice overall (barring certain encounters of course)?
    Spirestone - US

    80 Mage - Lethål
    80 Rogue - Lethalstelth

  19. #19
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyc33 View Post
    So I just reforged and regemmed and my current stats are (unbuffed):

    Haste: 10,358
    Hit: 16.78%
    Crit: 8684 (23.31%)
    Mastery: 2560 (23%)

    Does that look alright or is my crit still a little low for the build? I haven't been able to test it in raid yet.

    Also another quick question, I was reading over on the EJ forums and the guide there that has been updated for 5.3 says that FON is going to average more dps than NV (which I've been using). Is FoN a better choice overall (barring certain encounters of course)?
    You still have enough crit, so that's fine.

    FoN and NV are on two separate tiers. FoN competes with Incarnation, where FoN will beat Inc if it's a single- or two-target fight and the fight length is over ~5 minutes. NV competes with HotW, and HotW is the better DPS talent at all times (except for sub-2-minute fights, but that's only for extreme farm).

  20. #20
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    You still have enough crit, so that's fine.

    FoN and NV are on two separate tiers. FoN competes with Incarnation, where FoN will beat Inc if it's a single- or two-target fight and the fight length is over ~5 minutes. NV competes with HotW, and HotW is the better DPS talent at all times (except for sub-2-minute fights, but that's only for extreme farm).
    Might try NV on Jin'rokh this reset coming


    Vexxe of Old School looking for established and reliable RBG Team to push HOTH PM me.






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