1) The plague will not allow Sylvanas to replenish her troops.
2) Varian will not allow her to just set up all nice and fancy.
3) You really want a crazy woman like Jaina having an excuse to unleash the focusing iris? Lets be honest here....she is only moments away from going psycho and dropping a massive bomb on anything and unleashing the kirin tor.
4) As people have said, WC2 Horde couldn't beat the dwarves inside Ironforge. The horde back then had the might of the legion behind them plus I do believe they were chaos orcs as well.
5) You think Vol Jin, Baine and even Lorethmar would allow her to just walk up to Ironforge with the entire idea of sparking a massive conflict? Those 3 leaders have pretty strong ties with their alliance counterparts.
There 5 reasons why Sylvanas would herald the extinction of the Forsaken if she attempted something so stupid.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." -Alexander Tytler
ofc not,how will the alliance players level up if she does?
The constructive troll!
Shit, Legion interference is what caused the orcs to fail in WC2. Gul'dan deserted at a crucial moment when his forces were needed to go chase after the Tomb of Sargeras where he was killed by demons.
Give it time yeah. Every minute, every war, every death she grows in power. And if you noticed she sat this whole ride nearly out. And we even catch her shamelessly raising her BE allies. Its another Scourge.
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"I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion
Ironforge is essentially in a giant cave. If there is no way for the plague to get in, they will all suffocate eventually. They can't grow their own food, so they will starve. It's incredibly defensible, but it's also a tomb.
And yes I did play WC 3. I'm wondering if you've played WoW if you think the forsaken 'plague' and the scourge 'plague' are similar in anything but name.
And you make it sound like it'd be so easy for a bunch of undead to secretly set up their plague in alliance lands.
Also, for the tram, horde players can use it freely because of GAME MECHANICS not lore, that's like saying Alliance can destroy Org easy by just sneaking bombs onto the zeppelin from STV to Org and dropping them off when it arrives. You DO realize that lore and game mechanics are very different things I hope. In lore a bunch of UNDEAD trying to sneak PLAGUE onto the tram would be no easy task.
Another thing. Sylvannas is very afraid in Tides of War that if Garrosh destroys Theramore, the Alliance will come crashing down on her. The Forsaken are by no means invincible, and like it or not she NEEDS the Horde as a deterrent to a full fledged Alliance invasion.
Last edited by Malzra; 2013-07-28 at 03:38 AM.
Anyways, the main army consisted of orcs there wasn't anywhere a big demon army to be seen, its not reign of chaos with full deployed demon armies + scourge. If the old horde in wc2 would have that, they wouldn't have lost. Instead Gul'dan was teared apart in the tomb of sargeras by demons. All they did is backslash on one of the most important orc leaders and killing him, in fact they helped the alliance that way.
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The whole ordeal weakened the orcs so much, that they lost the war with the alliance.
It was all retconned afterwards.
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Well, this was in wacraftII canon, too. Perenolde betrayed the alliance you had a campaign i think it was act III in the norther region to end his treachery. One of the few maps where you had a war amongst only humans, felt a bit like a civil war, humans vs humans.
Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-07-28 at 03:55 PM.
Lore-wise, it's feasible she could take over more of the Eastern Kingdoms...but she would have to get past Khaz Modan. The Dwarves are very resilient, even moreso with the active help of the Gnomes in recent events. Even if the Forsaken managed to pump the plague inside Ironforge, the Gnomes could find a way to pump it out as they've done with the irradiation in Gnomeregan.
The quests in Silverpine (namely, Pyrewood) suggest that the Forsaken plague/Val'kyr cannot raise the dead of Dwarves and Night Elves, among other things. One of Godfrey's lackeys comments that the Alliance has gotten smarter, and sent in a special unit that the Forsaken couldn't turn into undead. The mobs there are (you guessed it!) Dwarves and Night Elves. This would pose a problem for the Forsaken when trying to take Khaz Modan. Most of their war efforts have included raising those they kill, adding them to the Forsaken War Machine. This wouldn't be able to be done in Khaz Modan, meaning they would either have to have more firepower, or create a new strain of plague that would turn Dwarves and other races into undead. Without either of those, they would lose more than they would create, thus making their forces considerably weaker.
Everything else? Yeah, they'd be able to take most of Stormwind's lands pretty easily, considering that most are farming lands. Duskwood would be an interesting place to see Forsaken, considering it's already a war zone for several races and groups: mindless undead, feral worgen, Gilnean worgen, and humans. The weapons, plague, and val'kyr in service of the Forsaken could do some major damage to human settlements. Not so much anything else beyond that, however. She would definitely need to get stronger forces, more undead, or allies...none of which she really has at the ready so far.
3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
No one here claimed a bunch of undead would smuggle the scourge version of the plague into the human realms. In WC3 human cultists did it. The forsaken will use spys too, spys usually cannot be recognized by the enemy. They can be human, gnome, dwarven anything....they can be mercaneries paid for this mission or just mind controlled, or they just want to be immortal and turned too. Or they are elven vampires in disguise pretending to be high elves.(icc wing)
Actually, its like the forsaken using nukes while the alliance doesn't have a single one. Anyone attacking the forsaken certainly is paying a high price. Also people have bad memory here and forget that Sylvanas was once the finest elven general of silvermoon. She know tactics and isn't easy to kill. Arthas had a much bigger army, the scourge behind him and still had trouble to kill her until the final battle. Later when she was turned she almost killed him, cause she trapped him. When it comes to wow, she is pretending to be weak, those underestimated usually prevail.
Furthermore she is pretending to be weak to buy more time for her plague research. She is also pretending she has no plague at all, if you ever played catas forsaken quests in silverspine and listened to the speech of both Garrosh and Sylvanas. There might be something in Gilneas, too when you listen to her while hidden in a church as worgen.
We will see what will happen with sylvanas, sad that the lore in wow is so stale and slow developing compared to the rts games. In the end metzen can make her all powerful like Kerrigan and the lichking or weak and forgotten. Just comes down of his writing. The potential to be extremely dangerous is there, on multiple point of views not just cause of the plague, but it plays a big factor, she knows why she puts so much time into this.
Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-07-28 at 04:35 PM.
Yes, the plague is very dangerous. So are the Alliance gunshps. So are dwarven siege tanks. Alliance can bomb Forsaken plague tanks, kill forsaken apothecaries trying to spray it around, it's not like there's nothing they can do to counter it.
You're just speculating that she's 'pretending' to be weak, the book seemed pretty convincing to me, in the way she tried to appeal to Lor'themar to back her up on opposing Garrosh's plan. You're pulling this 'she's pretending to be weak' thing out of your ass unless you can provide a lore quote that suggests she was faking it. The Forsaken are strong, but they're not as strong as Stormwind and Ironforge combined, let alone the entire Alliance. They have a powerful weapon in the plague, but it's not uncounterable, and sneaking enough of it into IF to destroy the city from within is going to require more than a few hired mercs.
She wasn't afraid to commit suicide...but then she did and went to hell essentially, and she describes her Forsaken as 'no longer being arrows in her quiver, but a bulwark against the infinte' or something like that in her short story. She committed suicide once but didn't go to the happy place she expected.
They are not above using original Plague if it suits their purposes. While they don't want new undead raised from using the original Plague to be controlled by the LK, Southern EK is quite a distance away from Northrend and his control would be weaker. Maybe weak enough for the Forsaken to liberate them. Even if the Forsaken aren't able to convert those new undead, using original Plague would still be advantageous for causing chaos within the Alliance populace.
EDIT: I just remembered that only carion worms are immune to Plague. So it would still give an advantage against IF if enough of the dwarves were infected. They wouldn't turn completely undead, but a disease would spread like wildfire in the confined space if they didn't catch it early enough to quarantine the infected.
If that isn't proove for Sylvanas playing mind games with her allies and pretend to be weak and do all they want, you ignore reality.
I don't think Sylvannas and the Forsaken are 'weak' but there's a wide gap between 'weak' and 'able to take over whole continent on their own.'
Last edited by Malzra; 2013-07-28 at 11:33 PM.
Last edited by Hitei; 2013-07-28 at 11:29 PM.
The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was... inconsolable.