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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I fail to see where in this quest it says they are using the original plague.
    The plague drums are the exact same color and style as all other forsaken new plague containers.
    Yeah, the Forsaken plague is essentially just toxic goo that, in high concentrations, will kill you and reduce you to goo, and makes the land unlivable for the living. A far cry from the undead turning disease the scourge had.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I fail to see where in this quest it says they are using the original plague.
    The plague drums are the exact same color and style as all other forsaken new plague containers.
    That quest is where they use it. The previous quest is where they collect it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Yeah, the Forsaken plague is essentially just toxic goo that, in high concentrations, will kill you and reduce you to goo, and makes the land unlivable for the living. A far cry from the undead turning disease the scourge had.
    Forsaken plague also kills undead, including themselves. They are immune to Scourge plague.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-28 at 11:40 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #523
    Even so, I'd say it'd be a lot harder to pull something like that off in the heart of alliance territory than it is on the Forsaken's backdoor in a land still largely held by scourge. That quest chain, at least on wowpedia seems to just sort of end there, do they actually end up using it?

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That quest is where they use it. The previous quest is where they collect it.
    That's a rather broad logical jump.
    The New Plague was developed using samples from scourge infected creatures, it uses the toxins of diseased animals as a base.
    I think it's a bit presumptuous to then assume that in this quest a single apothecary without a lab is able to quickly manufacture the original scourge plague from a latent strain of the disease.

    Especially considering that what he wants is plague grass (i.e. the ability of the plague to corrupt a landscape) and points out that the samples from animals are less satisfying. I think it's pretty safe to say that he was simply using the diseased tissue samples to try and imbude a batch of new plague with a more devastating, hard to remove effect on the landscape.

    This is even more evidenced by the fact that the plague batches explode in a manner consistent with the New Plague, and weaken the humans at the farm the same way the Forsaken New Plague weakens the vrykul in Halgrind.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  5. #525
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    If they could get to Stormwind, kill them all and then raise them back, I think she could take EK. The dwarves would be the last to hold out but they would die out eventually.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Even so, I'd say it'd be a lot harder to pull something like that off in the heart of alliance territory than it is on the Forsaken's backdoor in a land still largely held by scourge. That quest chain, at least on wowpedia seems to just sort of end there, do they actually end up using it?
    I don't think it continues. To me, it seems like their plan is to push the Alliance out of the area while being able to claim plausible deniability. Make it look like their attempts to cleanse the area failed and the Plague re-surged on its own.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    That's a rather broad logical jump.
    The New Plague was developed using samples from scourge infected creatures, it uses the toxins of diseased animals as a base.
    I think it's a bit presumptuous to then assume that in this quest a single apothecary without a lab is able to quickly manufacture the original scourge plague from a latent strain of the disease.

    Especially considering that what he wants is plague grass (i.e. the ability of the plague to corrupt a landscape) and points out that the samples from animals are less satisfying. I think it's pretty safe to say that he was simply using the diseased tissue samples to try and imbude a batch of new plague with a more devastating, hard to remove effect on the landscape.

    This is even more evidenced by the fact that the plague batches explode in a manner consistent with the New Plague, and weaken the humans at the farm the same way the Forsaken New Plague weakens the vrykul in Halgrind.
    New Plague is deadly to Forsaken too, but they are immune to original Plague. He makes a direct comparison with the cauldrons used to spread original Plague in the area. They are trying to take the farm from the Alliance, "We're going to take that farm back from these humans." Contaminating it with New Plague will make the farm unusable just like Southshore.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-28 at 11:54 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    New Plague is deadly to Forsaken too, but they are immune to original Plague. He makes a direct comparison with the cauldrons used to spread original Plague in the area. They are trying to take the farm from the Alliance, "We're going to take that farm back from these humans." Contaminating it with New Plague will make the farm unusable just like Southshore.
    This is what I mean by silly jumps in logic.

    He does not make a direct comparison with the cauldrons used to spread the new plague in any relation at all to what the player is doing.
    He makes an offhand comment about how he liked the farm better when the scourge held it, because at least they had a plague cauldron.
    i.e. "At least the scourge used the farm to further their own control on the land instead of farming crops on it"

    I almost liked it better when the Scourge held the area. At least they had the sense to put a giant plague cauldron in the middle of the field.
    In no way does he ever imply that the plague he is working on is similar to the scourge plague.

    And the New Plague is not outright deadly to Forsaken. People need to stop thinking that the New Plague is a virus or disease, it isn't. It's not a real plague, it's a toxins that poisons things and if well saturated, or internally digested can kill a person, including a member of the forsaken.

    Southshore was rendered unusable because the area was hit with so much plague that half the town is literally pools of toxic goo that spawn living oozes.(Note that even with this level of saturation, the forsaken are still able to walk around the surrounding area fine, the apothecaries are just interested in how long it will take to clean the area of plague) Hitting an area with a small amount of New Plague does not make it unable to be used, thus, rather than ordering catapults out to bombard the area in plague, you plant a few drums.. enough to weaken the area's growth and weaken the humans hit.

    This is not the first time New plague has been used to adapt an area to forsaken control: Hillsbrad farms, Shadowfang keep.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    This is what I mean by silly jumps in logic.

    He does not make a direct comparison with the cauldrons used to spread the new plague in any relation at all to what the player is doing.
    He makes an offhand comment about how he liked the farm better when the scourge held it, because at least they had a plague cauldron.

    In no way does he ever imply that the plague he is working on is similar to the scourge plague.
    Talks about how the field used to have a plague cauldron, then tells you to place plague drums around that field.

    Everywhere in game, Scourge plague is referred to as "plague". Forsaken stuff is referred to as "New Plague", "Blight", or "Forsaken Blight". The whole time he refers to it as plague. If it were new plague/blight, they would have made that distinction clear instead of calling it plague the whole time when harvesting it and deploying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    i.e. "At least the scourge used the farm to further their own control on the land instead of farming crops on it"
    Now who's making jumps in logic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    And the New Plague is not outright deadly to Forsaken. People need to stop thinking that the New Plague is a virus or disease, it isn't. It's not a real plague, it's a toxins that poisons things and if well saturated, or internally digested can kill a person, including a member of the forsaken.
    New Plague isn't outright deadly to the living either at low concentrations. But they are planning on using amounts capable of killing the people on the farm, that would make it also deadly for the Forsaken if it was New Plague.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Southshore was rendered unusable because the area was hit with so much plague that half the town is literally pools of toxic goo that spawn living oozes.(Note that even with this level of saturation, the forsaken are still able to walk around the surrounding area fine, the apothecaries are just interested in how long it will take to clean the area of plague)
    THE SURROUNDING AREA, aka not in the death zone. They aren't having pool parties in the glowing ooze.

    Oh my. 250? This thing doesn't go past 250. How are you still standing? You should be a puddle of goo by now. Sylvanas will be most displeased with this information. There might be some things we can do to reduce the lethality levels of the area by a few decades, but that still leaves us out by about a hundred or so years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Hitting an area with a small amount of New Plague does not make it unable to be used, thus, rather than ordering catapults out to bombard the area in plague, you plant a few drums.. enough to weaken the area's growth and weaken the humans hit.
    Hitting it with a small amount also makes Blight useless.

    At Gilneas, Forsaken Blightcallers say:
    -Watered down garbage. Doesn't even slow 'em down.
    -This is a war, right? We're supposed to be able to kill our enemies with our weapons, right?
    -This blight is useless.
    -What did they test this crap on? Murlocs?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    This is not the first time New plague has been used to adapt an area to forsaken control: Hillsbrad farms, Shadowfang keep.
    This is the only place where they've used this type of deployment.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-29 at 12:49 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Talks about how the field used to have a plague cauldron, then tells you to place plague drums around that field.

    Everywhere in game, Scourge plague is referred to as "plague". Forsaken stuff is referred to as "New Plague", "Blight", or "Forsaken Blight". The whole time he refers to it as plague. If it were new plague/blight, they would have made that distinction clear instead of calling it plague the whole time when harvesting it and deploying it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIqEH4v_tMY

    The New Plague is commonly called just "the plague"

    New Plague isn't outright deadly to the living either at low concentrations. But they are planning on using amounts capable of killing the people on the farm, that would make it also deadly for the Forsaken if it was New Plague.
    They use it to weaken the humans, not outright kill them.

    Hitting it with a small amount also makes Blight useless.

    At Gilneas, Forsaken Blightcallers say:
    -Watered down garbage. Doesn't even slow 'em down.
    -This is a war, right? We're supposed to be able to kill our enemies with our weapons, right?
    -This blight is useless.
    -What did they test this crap on? Murlocs?


    This is the only place where they've used this type of deployment.
    Right, very light blight dosage is useless, very high kills, the medium dose just weakens.
    This type of deployment isn't any different than catapult deployment, you just don't have a catapult on hand and are shooting for a medium amount of deployment.

    And if you're going to bother arguing deployment, then this is VERY CLEARLY the New Plague, since the scourge plague is spread via slow corruption and takes time to manifest effects, where this plague is deployed in an instant with immediate effects. The corruption spread by the scourge plague also tends to have a blight-colored influence, turning things muddy and dull red-orange, where the Forsaken blight is always green.

    I don't understand how you can possibly argue that it's the scourge plague, it clearly isn't, since the humans don't come back as scourge, and since, again, what you're suggesting is that a single apothecary with limited lab equipment was able to completely recreate the scourge plague from inferior trace samples of the disease and brew up enough of that plague to bomb a farm.

    Talks about how the field used to have a plague cauldron, then tells you to place plague drums around that field.
    Two people walk into their newly rented apartment.
    "Oh, there's nothing covering the windows"
    "Yeah that's weird, at least the original owner had blinds on them"
    "Let's go buy drapes"

    Drapes are now blinds by your logic.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2013-07-29 at 02:39 AM.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIqEH4v_tMY

    The New Plague is commonly called just "the plague"
    That's like the one occasion where they called it "plague" and yet everywhere else in the Gilneas campaign it's referred to as Blight.
    -At Gilneas, Forsaken Blightcallers say "This blight is useless."

    Plus a ton of other places in game where it's referred to as "blight".
    -The entire quest chain from Give it a Name where they officially name it "Blight". Which includes some gems as The Forsaken Blight and You: How Not to Die and The Forsaken Blight.
    -Angry Scrubbing Bubbles.
    -Studies in Lethality.
    -Blighted Last Rites.
    -Blight Slinger.
    -Forsaken Blight Spreader.
    -Blight Spreader.
    -Blight Slime.
    -Blight Aberration.
    -Engorged Blight Worm.
    -Putress throws blight barrels in The Battle for Undercity.

    Refered to as "New Plague":
    -Battle of Hillsbrad.
    -Entire quest chain of A New Plague.
    -Entire quest chain of Hints of a New Plague?.
    -Delivery to Silverpine Forest.
    -Quest chain A Recipe for Death.
    -Journey to Hillsbrad Foothills.
    -Elixir of Pain.
    -Variety is the Spice of Death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    And if you're going to bother arguing deployment, then this is VERY CLEARLY the New Plague, since the scourge plague is spread via slow corruption and takes time to manifest effects, where this plague is deployed in an instant with immediate effects. The corruption spread by the scourge plague also tends to have a blight-colored influence, turning things muddy and dull red-orange, where the Forsaken blight is always green.

    I don't understand how you can possibly argue that it's the scourge plague, it clearly isn't, since the humans don't come back as scourge, and since, again, what you're suggesting is that a single apothecary with limited lab equipment was able to completely recreate the scourge plague from inferior trace samples of the disease and brew up enough of that plague to bomb a farm.

    Two people walk into their newly rented apartment.
    "Oh, there's nothing covering the windows"
    "Yeah that's weird, at least the original owner had blinds on them"
    "Let's go buy drapes"

    Drapes are now blinds by your logic.
    The name of the quest is "Who needs Cauldrons?" Totally not making a comparison...

    He calls it "plague" when he's harvesting actual plague. He calls it "plague" when he deploys it. He doesn't call it "new plague" or "modified plague" or "special plague" or any other crap, he calls it by the exact same name as what he was harvesting from the grass: "plague". He doesn't say anything about modifying the plague you give him. He talks about the Scourge's "plague cauldrons" while he hands you "plague drums".
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-29 at 03:40 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #531
    The Lightbringer Humbugged's Avatar
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    Could the walking dead - with their shoddily crafted siege weapons, lack of moral support, no allies save for a few pansies too interested in themselves up in Quel'Thelas and a secret weapon known as "the plague"... Stand up to Azeroth's greatest technological geniuses and chemical engineers (AKA Gnomes) and craftsman of the holiest undead-slaying weapons and impenetrable siege tanks of all time (AKA Dwarves)?

    Yeah...




    slightly biased.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    If it's too hard, go to bed and forget about it.

    - Manakin.

  12. #532
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Sylvanas couldn't.

    Shes got the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade to the East, to the South-East she has the whole Wildhammer clan, she has half of the Alliance South of her, along with Plenty of Sea access for a crafty attack on Undercity. She might have a chance with Stormwind IF it was only the humans defending, but Ironforge is an absolute no.

    If she COULD get absolute domination of the Thandol Span, she MAY have a chance. But currently she doesn't control Arathi Highlands.
    ---TransAwesome---
    A rainbow a day keeps the gloomies away.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    Sylvanas couldn't.

    Shes got the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade to the East.

    I giggled seeing all the arguing still going on here.

    They would be the first to get the taste of a new more powerful plague. Can't be in Sylvanas interest to let them hang around there in her territory anyways. There is a chance that the Ebon Blade betrays the Argent Crusade, they both do not really fit well together and fullfilled their combined pupose in defeating the Lichking, anyways.



    We shall see what happens......if Sylvanas succeeds to deal any great dmg in EK, through new allies or through a allpowerful new plague, the story will progress finally. Last time the story progressed after all of EK was destroyed by scourge and Legion forces.

    I think the rise of Sylvanas will come with a betrayal.
    She is way too clever, to declare a war just on her own.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-07-29 at 05:10 PM.

  14. #534
    Dreadlord MouseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Ironforge is essentially in a giant cave. If there is no way for the plague to get in, they will all suffocate eventually. They can't grow their own food, so they will starve. It's incredibly defensible, but it's also a tomb.
    Really you think Dwarves don't have stocks of food and beer...haha....there is even a lake in cavern that can be fished, there is hidden passages out to outer farms all over that mountain.....you don't think the gnomes haven't created a air machine to keep air and produce air IF and keep clean and purified.....as someone had stated before Iron Forge is basically like the real life NORAD in the USA.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by MouseD View Post
    Really you think Dwarves don't have stocks of food and beer...haha....there is even a lake in cavern that can be fished, there is hidden passages out to outer farms all over that mountain.....you don't think the gnomes haven't created a air machine to keep air and produce air IF and keep clean and purified.....as someone had stated before Iron Forge is basically like the real life NORAD in the USA.
    Simulation in Dwarf Fortress proves that unless they have decontamination chamber, dwarves are fucked against biological weapons.

    Also funny that you think that little puddle has enough fish to feed entire city.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  16. #536
    Dreadlord MouseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Simulation in Dwarf Fortress proves that unless they have decontamination chamber, dwarves are fucked against biological weapons.

    Also funny that you think that little puddle has enough fish to feed entire city.
    That puddle you call in IF has feed many thousands of players and NPC's with fish for almost 10 years now.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by MouseD View Post
    That puddle you call in IF has feed many thousands of players and NPC's with fish for almost 10 years now.
    Oh you are going there now? Are you fucking kidding me?
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Or you know. Pump it inside

    As for the topic. No, she can't without support. Support that she will not receive.
    I was going to say that as well. "Chemical Attacks" are exceptionally more effective in interior environments. Ironforge would probably be the EASIEST city to conquer with the plague just from that perspective, though I don't think it'll happen.

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