Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    First off, Middle does not equal Mediocre, secondly the answer is because there is always a middle, it is absolutely, positively, 100% impossible to completely balance DPS. The mechanics just do not support it, there will always be atleast one class/spec that does better due to X, Y, Z factor (gear, situation, talent, etc). I would much rather be middle of the pack instead of worst and hoping for a buff, or even best and dreading a nerf.
    Now, does this mean there are a few specs that are too strong and a few that are too weak? YES. I don't think anyone can argue that Assassination Rogues are not over balanced. Likewise Arms is completely subpar (although I don't feel bad about that because we have Fury spec, and personally I hate arms).

    The deltas that Xeraxis posted 25H DPS Bot should be taken with a heavy grain of salt, however you can easily see that each class has atleast one spec that is very close to all the others.

    Looking at your guilds damage meter and deciding you need to be buffed is laughable. You ignore all the major factors; such as each players Gear, Individual player skill, specific roles per fight, even luck. Especially this tier where RNG due to RPPM trinkets play an extremely heavy factor.
    I'm not saying Fury doesn't need buffs, personally I think we do, but not in terms of straight % damage increase across the board until we are magically the best dps.
    What we need is A) better survivability on par with other classes, B) better sustainable cleave and C) quality of life improvements such as CS not being parried, a slight speed boost after a successful Charge similar to Shadowstep, etc.



    I personally don't like overly complicated player mechanics. I think most classes are in a good place as they are. I would rather see difficult fight mechanics that require you to execute your rotations correctly while paying attention to boss mechanics, instead of overly complicated player mechanics that are only really executable on a Patchwerk encounter.
    Player mechanics should be engaging, not overly punishing.
    I appreciate this post and could not have worded it better. The only change I would make is about CS not being parried. If you are exp capped and properly positioned, this will never happen. They could instead change the awkward turning around that a lot of the bosses do that take this away from us (IMHO).

  2. #82
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    1,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    Now let me pack some heat. If Furys wouldn´t do OK in Top Guilds, why is it, that literally every Top guild brings at least one warrior? You might consider, that "doing OK" does not solely depend on your damage but also on your mobility and utility, which we are stuffed with. .
    Its quite obvious why, but i'll bite... Banner/Sthrow/Rallyin cry, sure as hell aint for our superior surviability or dps...

  3. #83
    I believe Fury (along with many other specs) perform perfectly fine. Instead of buffing every spec to match the highest DPS specs, you would rather bring those few classes/specs down a notch to match the rest. These issues and concerns that we warriors have, are not unique for our class, it's the same you witness going to almost all the other class forums. A few specs have been performing above the pack this tier (as with any tier) and they need to be brought down to the rest.

    Looking back at ToT I feel that multi-dotters in particular have been too strong, having Council type of fights (Council of Elders) that do not reset health when one dies, is favoring multi-dot classes way too much. This is another discussion however, my point is that the correct approach is to bring the best specs down on par with the rest, not buff everyone until they match the outliers.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    B) better sustainable cleave
    Well they decided to take the other route. Having a button that basically deals good damage for everyone regardless of so called skill level is fine I suppose and I have settled with the fact that dots are what wotlk's warrior cleave was. Also personally I'd actually prefer getting some single target dps - what some classes can pull on ra'den seems really strong.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    What we need is A) better survivability on par with other classes, B) better sustainable cleave and C) quality of life improvements such as CS not being parried, a slight speed boost after a successful Charge similar to Shadowstep, etc.
    I think we have a decent survivability with the SW change in 5.4. Don't forget that we always have defstance, which is a plain 25% dmg reduction, together with 2min 20% dobts and 3min 40% (or 5min 60%) shieldwall. I think especially def stance is highly underrated and most warriors tend to use zerkstance for that bit more damage instead of using defstance for survivability. Of course we have no 100% magic immunity, but we don't need more homogenization.
    As for CS not being parried, I think there was not one fight in ToT where that was a problem? Maybe DA as orb soaker, but even then you can always delay your CS for a few seconds.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Anduryondon View Post
    Of course we have no 100% magic immunity, but we don't need more homogenization.
    As for CS not being parried, I think there was not one fight in ToT where that was a problem? Maybe DA as orb soaker, but even then you can always delay your CS for a few seconds.
    Given the way they developed the game as a whole I think it is exactly what is needed. Also my first thought would probably go to durumu. While it doesn't pose unsolvable problems it still seems unnecessarily punishing and I do not really see a reason for it to stay that way.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Given the way they developed the game as a whole I think it is exactly what is needed. Also my first thought would probably go to durumu. While it doesn't pose unsolvable problems it still seems unnecessarily punishing and I do not really see a reason for it to stay that way.
    Right, Durumu is probably a good example. To be honest, now that I think about it maybe that would be a good change. It does not affect high end play very much, but could improve the dps of average players a little more. Personally, the only quality of life change that I would really appreciate is increasing sunder armor stacks from CS glyph to 3, because target switching in 10m can be real tough if you don't have other classes for that.

    I'm still not convinced for magic immunity and more sustained cleave though. Why would you ever bring another melee than a warrior if we gain these traits. We already bring so much utility, other classes would be glad to have that. Add magic immunity and more cleave damage on top of that and we would be the strongest melee class in the game.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    3,004
    Quote Originally Posted by d00f View Post
    I dont play a Damage Dealer do Support with Shout Banner and Vigilance.
    i really like these spells and iam able to use them ot help the raid, but at the end of the day iam a DAMAGE DEALER and i want to DEAL DAMAGE.
    This may come across as hostile, but it's honestly not intended to.

    In any event, this is the exact attitude that’s killed class diversity in this game and homogenised everyone to stages of pointlessness. You may not realise it, but being a hybrid is a key component of the class system that this game shipped with, and has been all but eroded because of people like yourself.

    Playing a hybrid class back during TBC (when the system was imperfect, but largely done correctly) meant that you were able to contribute meaningful damage, but there were other things that you did for your raid that were more meaningful than just extra damage. There were lots of examples of players doing things out of the box and being the raid hero, just because they knew how to play the class correctly and showed imagination.

    Now, Blizzard are catering to you and look at the results. Constant crying because certain classes dominate damage consistently (mages), while others get left in the dust. This is to be expected because that’s what the game is aimed at, but Blizzard caused it by deciding to move fully away from the hybrid tax and what made it a fundamental part of the game.

    If you exclusively want to deal melee damage, you play a rogue. That’s it. But now, because of people like you, hybrids lost their special niche for those that loved it, and everyone got rammed into ball-busting DPS machines with little or no thought for what else they could contribute.

    And what have we got?

    Warriors never better than middle of the pack (and often by the end of a tier), Arms particularly is almost always terrible, and death knights are in a far worse state than warriors are because of low utility and crap damage. Retribution and Enhancement have lucked out in the latest patch, and they have utility as good as ours, while Feral even lost the ability to properly offtank outside of a talent window.

    You’re entitled to your opinion, and you’re lucky that Blizzard shares it. But the whole “bring the player not the class” mantra, as well as “I’m a damage dealer not a hybrid” has savaged the class individuality that myself, and many like me, used to love about this game.

    Was it really worth it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  9. #89
    i´ve been reading through this threat and i still wonder why ppl refuse that fury needs a buff for pve.

    well some reason could be, they dont play hc or even killed 13/13 hc. or maybe the other melee dd´s (like enhc, rogue, dks, retri, feral,ww monk) play like shit. but if it comes to bis or nearly bis gear, fury cant outdmg any of them!

    in our raid we are playing with 2 fury (as i cant post links atm, just take a look at shínx/icon on blackhand eu for armory) but mostly we get rapped by all other melee classes, that is maybe a lack of the rppm system, that doesnt scale that good with fury!

    playing fury just to support (demo banner/critbanner + shout) makes no sense for me, as i am a dmg dealer and not the support bitch

    the thing is, we dont scale bad with gear, but on the other hand every other class does it as well and as i mentioned before, they scale much better with rppm (like meta).

    so what could blizz do for us right now? maybe change t15 4s bonus to a permanent one, bring back execute to its original dmg before the nerf or just balance rppm proccs on fury. that could be 3 things that wont touch pvp much (and blizz mostly nerfs classes coz of pvp!!!!!) and would give us a small buff.

    there could be more other things that blizz may do, but in my opinion fury needs a buff very fast!

  10. #90
    Well, if blizz buffs Fury, and teh Fury gets on top dps meters, then the shaman will cry and ask for buffs. After that, the paladins will cry and ask for buffs. After that DKs and druids will cry and ask for buffs, and then rogues...
    WTF, guys, the matter is simple: do you like to play a warrior? cool, have fun! What's the problem?
    DPS meters, and that 5-10% difference in damage is only a fancy name for measuring penises. Stop that, it's not a job, it's an entertainment method.
    "I hate orcs... I really do!"

  11. #91
    Grunt
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Olsztyn, Poland
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashandris View Post
    Well, if blizz buffs Fury, and teh Fury gets on top dps meters, then the shaman will cry and ask for buffs. After that, the paladins will cry and ask for buffs. After that DKs and druids will cry and ask for buffs, and then rogues...
    WTF, guys, the matter is simple: do you like to play a warrior? cool, have fun! What's the problem?
    DPS meters, and that 5-10% difference in damage is only a fancy name for measuring penises. Stop that, it's not a job, it's an entertainment method.

    yhym another lfr player... because i cant post links yet you can find him/her on amory: Vashandris server Defias Brotherhood... btw [prot warrior]...


    as a normal / hc raider i just want to be blessed with something more than lower section of damage meter... in normal raiding i can ouperform most of players because they have worse skills but when it comes to hc raiding it's really harder to get a decent position... we need buffs, not godlike buffs but some decent buffs so we can look for a brighter future as a damage dealer not a buff vending machine...

  12. #92
    And Blizz need to stop their mage favoritism really, we arent stupid.

  13. #93
    They really need to bring back armor pen. That was the best stat in the game IMO. They need to slightly increase bt and rb dmg. Remember the other cd death wish or whatever it's called we need that back or we should have avatar baseline

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Anduryondon View Post
    Why would you ever bring another melee than a warrior if we gain these traits. We already bring so much utility, other classes would be glad to have that. Add magic immunity and more cleave damage on top of that and we would be the strongest melee class in the game.
    I actually think that the whole melee/ranged situation deserves a reevaluation. Doesn't make much sense that only ranged have to deal with mechanics so you can easier effort to bring subpar specs. That said I doubt that a simple anti magic cooldown would just break the position rogues currently have. Warriors already have good burst cleave still you do not exactly see them stacked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post

    You’re entitled to your opinion, and you’re lucky that Blizzard shares it. But the whole “bring the player not the class” mantra, as well as “I’m a damage dealer not a hybrid” has savaged the class individuality that myself, and many like me, used to love about this game.
    Well the ever amusing part about this is how good raid comps didn't really change all that much.

  15. #95
    D00f.. plz link me ur armory...

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,779
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Its quite obvious why, but i'll bite... Banner/Sthrow/Rallyin cry, sure as hell aint for our superior surviability or dps...
    And we're getting improved vigilance and free shieldwall next tier, as well as free spell reflect which (situationally) is amazing.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Its quite obvious why, but i'll bite... Banner/Sthrow/Rallyin cry, sure as hell aint for our superior surviability or dps...
    From what I've read Method wouldn't have brought a SINGLE warrior if it wasn't for banner+RC

  18. #98
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    From what I've read Method wouldn't have brought a SINGLE warrior if it wasn't for banner+RC
    Any warrior who didn't full clear within a month or so of the meta gems being in raid could bring much different comps than the top guilds did. By the same token....method brought restore druids which most guilds did not. Paragon brought a fury warrior. I am pretty sure that soy from blood legion saw a lot of progression as well.

    Point is they are in a different boat than us. They are doing content under geared and must have classes that are min maxed for encounters. A little off topic. I still believe we need a slight bump. I just urge you to take what the top 15 or so guilds in the world say and remember their perspective.

  19. #99
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    1,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    And we're getting improved vigilance and free shieldwall next tier, as well as free spell reflect which (situationally) is amazing.
    Speaking of shieldwall, what do you as dps think ?
    Is it to long cd ?
    Would it be better with less % and shorter cd for fury/arms ?
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-07-29 at 08:36 PM.

  20. #100
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dat Ingurlund, brrrrrap
    Posts
    4,989
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlas91 View Post
    yhym another lfr player... because i cant post links yet you can find him/her on amory: Vashandris server Defias Brotherhood... btw [prot warrior]...
    Don't name and shame, and everyone's allowed their opinion regardless of their progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlas91 View Post
    as a normal / hc raider i just want to be blessed with something more than lower section of damage meter... in normal raiding i can ouperform most of players because they have worse skills but when it comes to hc raiding it's really harder to get a decent position... we need buffs, not godlike buffs but some decent buffs so we can look for a brighter future as a damage dealer not a buff vending machine...
    You don't understand: there has to be a class that sits in the middle of the stack. Blizzard aren't gods and cannot make every spec sim exactly the same DPS.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •