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  1. #161
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatmikeguy View Post
    No less credible than ANY other atm. If you have one that can adequately separate AOE and non AOE, then link it. The Noxxic page is not far off of where standings are in world of logs.
    There IS NO one source. That's the point. 10/25m, heroic/normal, gear levels, what fight, fight length, skill (HUGE) etc etc ALL influence to some extent how well ANY class will perform on ANY fight.

  2. #162
    Blizz comment : Warrior DPS too low on 5.4 ptr


    Blizz Action : Reduce stance cooldown and buff intervene

  3. #163
    Dreadlord
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    They also said, that (Prot-)Damage isn´t tuned yet. perhaps the same goes for Fury. The patch goes live when the patch goes live.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  4. #164
    Blademaster
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    I Just want to consider that I Play DPS warri at the moment at Fury spec. Its hard to believe but Warri Sucks.

    Here is my Armory : http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...ozork/advanced

    Im in PvP gear @ the moment but, please check the Overall iLvL i am pretty much outgear. Overall iLvL 545 with 2x Heroic single Minded DPS ( Tortos Heroic , Randomloot Sword 535 x2 upgraded to 543 ). Its Hard to believe but i dont have the Trinket from Twins. I my situations there are often this Phases where i dont get any Proccs from My trinkets i Drop under 170k dps. I just tested Simcraft with my Gear, i can Hardly do in a Patchwork Fight my 199k DPs, btw there is Patchwork fight in ToT at the moment.

    What sucks most is the Issue of my Raidmembers, we got 2 Mages about 535 both deal more then 210k over all in all Situations, its really annyoing this way.

    I dont know if you feel the Same but "hey look the Warri is allways Last till 20%" ups Execute range.

    Not that i care but it would be much more valueable if Warri Overall DPS would be a bit high, even if Melee Autoattacks are nerfed.

    Skadadamage meter calls this:
    28% - Autohits
    21% - Execute
    rest - Not even noticeable ...

    I hope that i am not alone.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Blizz comment : Warrior DPS too low on 5.4 ptr


    Blizz Action : Reduce stance cooldown and buff intervene
    twitter. com/Ghostcrawler/status/362358951964196865

    The PTR is hardly over, calm your tits.

  6. #166
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There IS NO one source. That's the point. 10/25m, heroic/normal, gear levels, what fight, fight length, skill (HUGE) etc etc ALL influence to some extent how well ANY class will perform on ANY fight.
    This is always the counterargument to a 'class is underpowered' thread, and to some extent I agree - but looking at it objectively it's not really hard to see that put a good warrior against a good mage and the mage is going to win in any gear level, any fight, any raid size.

  7. #167
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kabrex View Post
    This is always the counterargument to a 'class is underpowered' thread, and to some extent I agree - but looking at it objectively it's not really hard to see that put a good warrior against a good mage and the mage is going to win in any gear level, any fight, any raid size.
    Not necessarily true. A fight like heroic lei shen or Megera where ads are present in close proximity or there is a lot of incoming damage to let us abuse beserker stance/lots of execute time will favor us over a mage.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Not necessarily true. A fight like heroic lei shen or Megera where ads are present in close proximity or there is a lot of incoming damage to let us abuse beserker stance/lots of execute time will favor us over a mage.
    Highly disagree. The mage will outdamage us the entire fight. Execute spam won't make up for doing 75k less dps.
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  9. #169
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Not necessarily true. A fight like heroic lei shen or Megera where ads are present in close proximity or there is a lot of incoming damage to let us abuse beserker stance/lots of execute time will favor us over a mage.
    The problem is that unless that fight SPECIFICALLY favors us during a high damage phase where we ARE NOT affected by some form of bubble, at best we get some more HS/WS in, which is a DPS gain, but not huge. Unless it happens during execute (I guess lei shin) it simply isn't as useful. Take twins. Yes, you can sit in serker stance all of P2. Doesn't mean warriors top the charts on that fight. Meg, well the heads die too quick to line up w/ CDs, so thats basically more HS spam is all.

    Blizz, plz make us gain rage when bubbled kthanksbai.

  10. #170
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone disagrees that fire is too high and we are mid/low overall. Fire will see its nerfs.

  11. #171
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Not necessarily true. A fight like heroic lei shen or Megera where ads are present in close proximity or there is a lot of incoming damage to let us abuse beserker stance/lots of execute time will favor us over a mage.
    I don't know what to say other than, you're wrong. Just using parses an example warriors are only remotely close on 25H Meg, and only because of bladestorm cheese more or less. That's hardly enough to argue a class is in line with others. There isn't a single viable melee spec below us and I can't think of a ranged one that does any less either.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees that fire is too high and we are mid/low overall. Fire will see its nerfs.
    Unlikely. Ghostcrawler recently said that he's not convinced that Fire mages will scale out of control next tier. I'm not sure what game he's playing, but they are ridiculous. I recently looked at a fire mage's scaling in my guild and every single secondary stat of theirs scaled significantly better than every one of mine. They are going to be out of control next tier if they aren't nerfed before 5.4.
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  13. #173
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodletters View Post
    Unlikely. Ghostcrawler recently said that he's not convinced that Fire mages will scale out of control next tier. I'm not sure what game he's playing, but they are ridiculous. I recently looked at a fire mage's scaling in my guild and every single secondary stat of theirs scaled significantly better than every one of mine. They are going to be out of control next tier if they aren't nerfed before 5.4.
    Really? Currently I'm getting a normalized value of .85 .77 and .70. What was fire at?

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Really? Currently I'm getting a normalized value of .85 .77 and .70. What was fire at?
    Well that's normalized. Their values were around .75 for all stats normalized if I remember right, but that's primarily because they scale SO well with Intellect. They gain over 7 points of DPS for every point of Intellect vs me getting approximately 4 points of DPS for my primary stat. In fact, ALL of his secondary stats scaled better than any of my secondary stats. They were all over 5 points of DPS per point, haste may have been about 6 but I can't remember exactly where they were all at.
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  15. #175
    Stood in the Fire Nakkí's Avatar
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    Fury's middle of pack. It's perfectly fine for heroic progression as long as the player's decent.

    More elaborately:
    1) Raid utility's great; in 5.4 we have a new tank cooldown in Vigilance along with both raid banners and Rallying Cry.
    2) Damage could use a little tuning up, but tha's been noted in a recent blue post as well. The actual tuning pass is still coming.
    3) Survivability's at least decent with -25% reduction from def. stance, -20% from DBTS and -40/60% from SW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabrex View Post
    looking at it objectively it's not really hard to see that put a good warrior against a good mage and the mage is going to win in any gear level, any fight, any raid size.
    If you're gonna compare a decently tuned spec to the most blatantly OP spec in the game, you're gonna have a bad time.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodletters View Post
    In fact, ALL of his secondary stats scaled better than any of my secondary stats
    That's not even worth any discussion. Fire mage scaling is so far ahead of warrior scaling and probably a lot of other classes as well at least for the moment. Pretty sure last time I was toying around even all secondary stats were scaling better than strength in around 550 gear. Of course the crit breakpoint will tone down mage scaling a bit but given their head start I am quite hesitant that will be sufficient even when they start scaling like normal classes anytime during the next content.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Really? Currently I'm getting a normalized value of .85 .77 and .70. What was fire at?
    It's stupid to use normalized values. This only shows the scaling relative to the strongest stat but not the absolute difference. Now compare it to Arcane and Fire...


    my own stats (TG)

    Arcane:
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 8.22 6.28 0.00 3.71 5.74 4.75
    Normalized 1.00 0.76 0.00 0.45 0.70 0.58

    Fire:
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 8.31 5.75 0.00 6.30 5.99 6.47
    Normalized 1.00 0.69 0.00 0.76 0.72 0.78

    We scale slightly better with weapons (ignoring secondary stats, a jump of 13 ilvl would put us about 3k DPS ahead) but that's ignoring the secondary stats which might or might not make it closer.

  18. #178
    Dreadlord Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Blizz comment : Warrior DPS too low on 5.4 ptr


    Blizz Action : Reduce stance cooldown and buff intervene
    It's a shame that was the last change for Warriors on the PTR till 5.5. Maybe next patch, boys.
    if you use a pony in your avatar/signature, i automatically think less of you.

  19. #179
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    It's stupid to use normalized values. This only shows the scaling relative to the strongest stat but not the absolute difference. Now compare it to Arcane and Fire...


    my own stats (TG)

    Arcane:
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 8.22 6.28 0.00 3.71 5.74 4.75
    Normalized 1.00 0.76 0.00 0.45 0.70 0.58

    Fire:
    Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
    Scale Factors 8.31 5.75 0.00 6.30 5.99 6.47
    Normalized 1.00 0.69 0.00 0.76 0.72 0.78

    We scale slightly better with weapons (ignoring secondary stats, a jump of 13 ilvl would put us about 3k DPS ahead) but that's ignoring the secondary stats which might or might not make it closer.
    True, if comparing between everything. I was looking for the difference between secondary stats alone, and not the relation to primary.

  20. #180
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkí View Post
    Fury's middle of pack. It's perfectly fine for heroic progression as long as the player's decent.

    More elaborately:
    1) Raid utility's great; in 5.4 we have a new tank cooldown in Vigilance along with both raid banners and Rallying Cry.
    2) Damage could use a little tuning up, but tha's been noted in a recent blue post as well. The actual tuning pass is still coming.
    3) Survivability's at least decent with -25% reduction from def. stance, -20% from DBTS and -40/60% from SW.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you're gonna compare a decently tuned spec to the most blatantly OP spec in the game, you're gonna have a bad time.
    'Decently tuned' best joke I've heard all week. Like I said, go ahead and name one class that does less damage. I don't even play warrior much anymore so I'm not upset about the tuning or anything, but objectively, it is one of the worst classes and the only salvageable part of it currently is the ridiculous amount of utility and the dps increase for the rest of the raid.

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